Could this be a so-called heaven or hell depending on your present state of being, or degree of suffering?
Could we just be dead people who suffered severe amnesia at the time of birth.
The whole spinning globe in the middle of nowhere is very much like a floating prison ship, yes?
Hi kevconman,
It would merely amount to an act of renaming. That is, we’d go around saying, “Gosh, it’s feels great to be dead this morning.” Or, “Alas, he’s no longer in the land of the dead.” Otherwise, very little would change by renaming life as death.
If we all suffer absolute amnesia for events that have occured in our past, those events might as well have happened to someone else. One might also say that he was Napolean in an earlier existence, only if he has no current traits or memory whatsoever of being Napolean then it would be resonable to conclude that he and Napolean are two different persons.
Yes, the earth could be seen as a prison for those with a powerful longing to escape from it. I think of it as my home, however. And while it might be fun to travel around the universe I’d probably become homesick before too long.
Regards,
Michael
In one of Philip K Dick’s best books Ubik - there’s an interesting variation where the main chracters find their entire universe is inside the head of a dying man.
So every thing is “contracting” loosing reality - going back in time - detail is drpping out.
The film jacob’s ladder is a bit similar in theme.
Anyway I agree if we were all “dead” or in some matrix computer simulation it would make no practical difference.
BUT if we were trapped in a “dying” medium we’d notice pretty quick!
What kind/level of reality would you all be happy to spend your lives in? If you knew you were in the Matrix, would you regard your life as you did before, or would you consider it less significant? What type of reality or being would you settle for as a worthwhile existence? Would you sacrifice quality of life for a ‘higher’ reality?
…I’m dead to everything I don’t know, that I’m unconscious of. That includes every before and after and myself in some parallel universe; but even if I was Napoleon [whom I would not choose to be], who was Napoleon before he was Napoleon? If the laws of reincarnation hold true probably some super wimp who was beyond hope and had to make up for it in some future life.
In by own case I’d envision a scenario of a green tea drinking monk with sore knees.
He he sounds quite fly
With reference to standard’s query - I suppose it’s a question of what is the best of all possible worlds (was that Liebnitz - think so)
There’s another very early PKD book (time for a Philip K Dick thread in mundane babble maybe) Eye in the Sky - where they are bounced between different people’s ideal “head space” universes - OF course they all turn out awful in practice.
The best is the really control freaky woman who’s against/frightened of everything and wants a bit of peace and quiet so she starts eliminating entire categories like all birds, all sky, all bars etc - again one of his major themes
Krossie
I see what you mean. In all the possible worlds there may be, consciousness may remain exactly the same in any world, so the only thing making the worlds different are the experiences they produce for consciousness (stimuli). So perhaps if varied experience is all different worlds can offer, why not simply regard the world offering the best experience as the best. Thinking this way one might then regard a pleasant Matrix world as far more preferable to any ´more real´ but difficult world.
Well not me
but Liebnitz (i think) thought we were in “the best of all possible worlds” - don’t know if that was his line exactly.
Any way standard I do like this idea - not sure if its his or yours - a sort of antromorphic universe specifically for our enjoyment/stimulation line -
nice post!
Krossie
I agree it would be a renaming, but . . .
please consider that we may have done something wrong to “come” here, for which we must now account for. We would have to make right for our past transgressions, whatever they may be. Maybe I committed suicide in some other past demension, and the whole test of now is to see whether I’d do it again. If I don’t, I return to the better demension.
Perhaps this is the jail for bad humans, displaced from a another, better gene pool on some distant planet.
In some ways, that might be like karma. What’s the point of suffering, other than “feeling more alive” and being aware of the meaning. I could do without that point. No need to state that one with an underline exclamation point!
And Michael, of course you’d get homesick. There is nothing fun about traveling in this universe, because there is nothing of humanly interest out there. Not even oxygen. We’re trapped, Mr. Positive. Sorry to break that to ya. Please convince me otherwise.
Everybody wants escape, no matter how content they are. They are content only to distract themselves from the void. The void surrounds this planet. Yay!
As Polemarchus said, it seems very dubious to hold you are the same person if you have no recollection whatsoever of that other life, so you would in effect be punished for someone else´s misdeeds. Then of course, if you passed your challenge and returned to a better dimension, the person who went their would not be you either and so would be rewarded for your endeavour! Moreover, how can you know what is demanded of you? (If anything is!)
Perhaps, but then it would seem equally plausible to suggest that our world is in fact the “better gene pool on some distant planet”.
What could be more interesting than traveling the universe and coming face-to-face with its wonders? Isn´t that the biggest conceivable dream? Plus we are not necessarily trapped, the only necessity is that we operate in accordance with physical laws. No one knows how far intelligent life can go, but its very presence should give rise to some degree of optimism.
My ex-wife used to tell me this planet is another planet’s hell. My son believes we live in the martrix since matter can be reduced to energy. My beliefs are that, if I’m living in an illusion, why is it so personally painful? My reality is my POV regardless of what anyone else says reality is or must be. This is not solipsistic. Intersubjective communication proves otherwise. And the fact that my human combination of reason and sense data can adequately detect what is out there beyond my body, can do so well enough for me to know that a rock as a “thing in itself” is an abstraction daily countered by my ability to know that I can’t eat a rock, but I can use it for a weapon or tool. We can out-think illusions; if we could not we would all be extinct. This planet is neither heaven nor hell unless we choose to see it as such.
I agree with the better gene pool thing to some degree.
What you’re not taking into account, however, is the fact the punisher who caused the amnesia does not need to alert the punished as who one was previously. The punisher might well not care if we rectify the situation. I agree, we cant consider ourselves responsible either in that case. But we would still be punished just the same.
No I don’t think being face-to-face with distant wonders would be a dream, considering we are an ungrateful bunch of wretches who dont appreciate the wonders of our own planet. And no, I’m not talking about agreeing on the beauty of a sunset/sunrise. I’m talking about destroying nature.
On a positive note, la la la, I’m singing.
I see what you´re saying, and it certainly could be the case. Still, whether it is or isnt´t wouldn´t really make much difference as all we are aware of is each individual life and consequently, having our memories wiped completely and permamently, would not care about our other selves. I guess we´ve no real way of gauging whether “our” current world is a form of punishment or reward given the lack of knowledge of other worlds or realities. There may well be neither, and our world may not therefore be objectively describable as either.
I do appreciate our own planet which is my home, but the planet itself belongs to the universe, and so is also my home. Surely exploring as much of it as possible would offer similar wonders to that available on Earth?!
“Reincarnation” phenomenon happen when spirits imprint themselves, by chance or on purpose, to some aspect of the realm of prebirth. And when a person is born, their deep self/soul may contain trace amounts of memories and mannerisms from whichever beings have imprinted psionically to his concieved or preconcieved inner-self.
“Dead” people “exist” outside of the timespace, often, or inside of the timespace, depending on how strong and mobile that consciousness is/was, because dimension shifting is possible to some degree or another for animate quantu.
This, by extension, would presuppose that ghosts are remnants who are somehow unable to ‘re-metabolize’ themselves back into the world of flesh. Perhaps the retained memory of a great trauma which burns itself into the very fabric of being in the most critical moments of death prevents what could described as a natural recycling…or maybe a ghost is just a freaky leftover hologram of nature whose image will eventually dissolve.
Could someone please describe to me how to live as if we believe that we have no will? Never got that one.
Some questions are philosophical - some are not. Meaningless questions are of the latter variety.
TheCDF,
Biologically, free will is indicated in the moving potential involved in every adaptational possibility. We may be limited in our actions by definite physical “laws” (Geeze, I hate that word, since the only thing I know of physical laws is recurrence.); but our vision outdistances our supposed structural entrapment. If it did not, we would not evolve.
As for reincarnation, I find it more moral than afterlives of reward and punishment. So did those ancient gnostics whose apocalyptic writings have been discovered at Nag Hammadi. In these gnostic writings*, it was supposed to be kept from humans that all souls would be saved from hell so that the hell deterance would keep us from sin.
As always, I opt for motion in ideas, not stasis.
*Elaine Pagels gives good exigeses of the gnostic gospels.
That’s what I was thinking when faust posted it in my thread, it is his quote that I have taken just to get another opinion. Sorry.
I just thought your topic was silly and thought it might be a good place for it.
TheCDF,
Maybe I’m not following too well. I don’t understand your response. I think faust and I are mostly on the same page, with a little excitement of controversy thrown in.
kevconman,
It really depends on the way you look at it.
Anything is possible. So to say that we are here because we are being punished is completely possible, just like flying cows are possible.
This does not, however, make you right in the least bit.
Hell maybe we are being rewarded and punished at the same time? Ever look at it that way?
There were many times in my life that were at the complete opposite of punishment. Like spending time with the person you love most. And, of course, the other times when I’d wish I was dead. Like when you are seperated from the person you love most.
Stop singing your depressed tune. It isn’t working on me and I hope it isn’t working on anybody else.
Just live for fucks sake. Stop crying. Yes we’re trapped. Deal with it. Go have sex or something …