"Daddy, when I grow up, I want to bag groceries."

Philosophy Forums Society, Government, and Economics
1

I was born with no obligations towards civilization, why then am I forced to serve its sentence, GIVE ME FREEDOM!

I see your illusions, the great and the minimal, oh naïve world. You who spat in the face of nature disgust me, it is in anarchy that the world was meant to be, how dare you deny nature’s simple logic? Do you call your forced conformity happiness? Humanity is not realized until he can shine, but how can he truly shine if you guide his dreams, oh infinite ignorance. The ultimate wisdom… the truth is found without you trying to find it, you fool.

You call me naïve myself, but how can you say that, impudent imperialists. Is not the final downfall of mankind it’s false compassion? You are power hungry mongrels with nothing but social hierarchy on their minds. Try my patience with your existence, you have not seen what humanity is.

I dream of a anarchy, but how could you understand that, government? Your civilization is built in a cloud, all its pillars of self-evident lies, one day, my nonexistent friend, one day it will rain, and when it does, it will be man’s downfall, ascent into the beautiful Marxist dream of utter logic, can’t you see?

I was born, when I was, I did not know what a president was, why should I? That’s your answer, right there, stop thinking from your point of view, life is marvelously simple.

Stop trying to run the world, if you don’t know me, you have no right to rule me. When will you be satisfied? I cannot revolutionize the world, I don’t want to, but I want you to stop, give humans another option, let them be as they were meant to be. God did not say “I bestow unto you, all the gifts of a man, to one day bag groceries at Wal-Mart”

It is not anarchy, not communism, not by definition… it is positive humanism, listen to me. Give me my freedom.

2

I often wonder why those that condemn human civilization as being somehow oposed to nature fail to see that human civilization is PART of nature.
Nature spawned us, therefore what we do is natural. The fact that we are the sole proprieters on earth of many of the things we do, including build economic and social infrastructures, does not make these things any less natural.
If anarchy was our ‘natural’ state, we would BE in anarchy. We aren’t.

3

I’m going to assume that the original poster is an anarchist of the John Zeran sort? Correct?

Care to define what you mean by Civilazation?

4

I prefer to see anarchists as hypocrites. in a structured society, they have no power, they derive power only in an absense of offical power. they are not against power abuse per se, but power abuse on them.

5

Huh?

They’re against power abuse in general…

6

Dr. Satanical,

Let me explain you something, What is it that makes us different from all other matter, living and non, which allows us to be unlike them all. Could it be our uncanny ability to deny things? To question why? Is that not humanities prime characteristic? If it is, then we aren’t able to see the truest definition of logic without questioning… rather, distorting it. Is not a fish more logical than a human?

Username,

I am an anarchist of no type, what I see is not that which can be classified, labeling is a vile downfall of humanity.
Civilization is any organized, structured, society banding together a group of people… no matter how large… meeting their common goals, assuming the majority is right, causing all of us to follow along with a society when we don’t know anything different.

PoR

Again with the labeling, open your mind as if something new were happening, otherwise you wont get anywhere.

7

I couldn’t agree more. “Civilization” perhaps, can be called an instantiation of nature of reality. I don’t know.

8

Something to ponder…

1.) Nature exists as the condition of our planet… the interaction of all its parts.

2.) We exist as part of nature

3.) Our (humans) natural tendancy follows closely the path of a virus. IE we move to a spot and consume all it’s relevant resources before moving on. We reproduce at an accelerated rate compared to our surrounding natural bodies.

4.) We are the self destructive force of nature… we exist to oppose it. Much like a virus exists to oppose our body… to strengthen it?

Imagine for a moment an appocalyptic event… near human extinction. Nature is changed… but it is always in change. Now the remaining humans rebuild (once again changing nature) to form a stronger nature… with attributes more attuned to self preservation: cultural, technological, political… maybe religious.

Perhaps alll we need is a good nuclear spanking for what would be the most important ‘evolution’ nature has seen so far. The only downside to this is of course is the nuclear scorching of our earth… and mass death, something i personally see as a bad thing.

It’s a bit of a stretch… but like I said, something ot think about :smiley:

9

Explain something to me? psshhh…nothing I haven’t heard a thousand times before from a thousand cloudy minded thinkers.
Are you implying these things come from somewhere else than nature? Are you saying that no other living creature can do things that to our limited perceptions and cognitive abbilities seem ‘uncanny’?
And ‘logic’ is a human creation created for the human mind by the human mind, and only exists inside the human mind. We deem what is logical based on our standards and perceptions and limitations. A fish has no use for logic.

10

Our (humans) natural tendancy follows closely the path of a virus. IE we move to a spot and consume all it’s relevant resources before moving on. We reproduce at an accelerated rate compared to our surrounding natural bodies.

Who cares?

11

come on now… don’t be grumpy :confused:

12

ROU,

You ask for freedom. Freedom from what? Freedom from the duality you must have in order to live? Try as you might, the world isn’t going to go away, including all those things you listed in your rant. The freedom you seek isn’t in shunning the world, but in seeing your part in it and taking control of yourself. The world is as it is. Change yourself. The unagitated heart starts with acceptance.

JT

13

Change myself? How am I to change myself when the world’s community expects something from me, no… tried that, society doesn’t want me to be me.

The argument I am hearing most is that we are a product of natgure and hence are following the path nature intended us to… good, but I am going to use a visual.

Imagine one of those pool noodles, the kind you float on, if you were to lay it down on the edge of the pool with one half hanging off, the part on the side would be straight, flat, unmoving, this is the part that is with nature, but once you remove it’s boundaries, allow it to realize there is a 3 dimensional world, it is ablee to move in more ways than nature ( side of the pool) is able to witness, or control.

We are the 2nd half of the noodle, nature is the side of the pool… I hope this provides some insight into my reasoning. Without nature to guide us, the noodle, we are unable to completely replicate the perfect straightness, logic, of nature anymore.

14

Anarchy is unnatural indeed. Selfishness is natural. There is safety in numbers. Therefore people group, and as groups, make agreements on behavior. These agreements become rules or laws, spoken or unspoken. Many do not even need enforcing. True anarchy would not work without everyone being a pacifist, and even that is conformity. Because if anyone was not a pacifist, something must be done about this evil doer, no? Then someone steps out (more likely a group) and kills this man. Now people just kill each other. I, for one, do not appreciate that. I would rather conform to a few rules in agreement to protection than die.

15

World Peace in 20 words or less.

Whether you want to join the band in singing this song, or not, the truth marches on.

As long as you are willing to force me, and those who consent to my will, to perform only those actions you see as acceptable, you don’t want peace.

Anarchy is not synonymous with chaos, anarchy requires the peaceful free association of all who come in contact with each other, any other behavior compels rules, government, and enforcement.

You must simply stop forcing people to do things(yes, even those things benficial to themselves) if you truly want peace.

Until you can keep you nose, and hired thugs(police), out of my business, the world will continue to see war as justified. I know I will fight for my freedom when those who have taken power over my life from me at the point of a gun(don’t pay your taxes if you don’t believe me) come for me.

Until you are no longer part of the group making life dangerous for others, or those who just donate money(tax) to the cause, you delude yourself into your superiority complex. You are in fact part of the underman class. Those who use violence to compel behavior are leaching the goodness from the human race.

:slight_smile:

16

Put down the Baudrillard (and/or crack pipe).

Primates are social creatures, and the fact that chiefdoms and states came about more than once (the old world and the new) is pretty compelling evidence that such social structures are ‘natural’ enough, though depending on how one defines the term you could argue that how you like.

It is my understanding there are still places on this earth where one can go and be mostly (if not completely) free of governmental control. Why not go there, or are the creature comforts too enjoyable to give up for the freedom you want?

17

Because I was set upon at birth by those willing to use deception and violence to control me I am doomed by the rationale that that is just the way it is and I should get used to it?

So to expierience freedom one has to go to it, having it at home is impossible?

If I want to live in the US it’s either toe the line or die?

:astonished:

18

Anarchist angel,

I think you are on the right track, but the control is set forth more by social obligations, enforced by the law. I am glad you see the purpose of my post, although perhaps it isn’t such a rebellious teenager thing like most prefer to assume.

19

So leave, you do have a choice you know. If you do not like the US government, leave, and go to another land. It is very simple.

20

No, I’d imagine you could be a street beggar for some time. (until your teeth fall out)

Functioning within society isn’t “toeing the line”: it is functioning within the environment you find yourself in. If you dislike it, you are free (as in speech, not as in beer) to leave.