David Bowie and my little girl.

Philosophy Forums Philosophy
1

…This is my first post here in a while. I used to be semi active on ILP.com about a year or so ago. I have forgotten my user name and PW so I made a new one.

What I wanted to bring to the table today is my thoughts on a pretty popular David Bowie quote, and what it means to me as a father. I hope this is the right board for this.

~ “…and these children that you spit on,
as they try to change their worlds are immune to your consultations.
They’re quite aware of what they’re going through…”

  • David Bowie~

    My first reaction after reading and pondering this quote is, it breaks my heart. My “parenting” to my 6 year old little girl who is so aware and internally involved in her surroundings, is probably speaking to her in an alien language. I think that I, and a lot of us, lack the required tools to communicate our thoughts and musings to these little people who are still shaping their perception of reality. And not taking anything at face value.

    I remember when I was 5-6ish and older, and the input I received from my mother or other influences, I normally took with a grain of salt. Below the level of thought, I was very protective of my world view. An adult had to bring a very convincing argument for me to entertain it. Not to say that I saw thru all the BS and only took the truth to heart, not at all. I’m positive that I looked over countless great logical statements, and took to heart a whole lot of crap. My point is, as a small child with a firm constitution, I had a pretty impressive firewall up ready to shoot down all comers.

    Nothing about the last paragraph was written to boast, I think that this state of mind for little children is common, not unique. There may be more impressionable kids, some less impressionable, but the demographic that I describe has a great number/percent of members.

    Ok so now that my rambling is done, let me break down the quote by line and my first impressions of each line:

“…and these children that you spit on,”

Very strong intro. I take “spit on” not as intentional disrespect but more like unintentional patronizing. Establishing that there is a communications barrier. To such an extent that my good willed attempt at sound advice is taken as vitriol.

To my baby girl, I don’t mean to spit on you, I just don’t know how to talk to your unique type of understanding. From now on, I will try to learn your language.

…“as they try to change their worlds are immune to your consultations.”

Most, if not all, of the inquiries that my little girl brings to the plate seem like they have, temporarily, stumped her. She wants the answers, so she comes to me. Not for the answers, because she knows she can figure them out for herself. She comes to me to see what my personality’s take on the subject is, and once she has that bit of information, she is one step further in making up her mind.

But I in my infinite wisdom as a parent and an adult will just tell her the answer, tell her how to think. And am completely bemused when in a few days the same type of topic comes up and she hasn’t fully incorporated my sage advice into her essence.

To my baby girl, how stupid of me. You are smarter then I, why would I expect you to blindly believe me when you have a perfectly good working brain to process this information. From now on, I will try to not be your answers, I will try to be your advice.

'…They’re quite aware of what they’re going through…"

Thanks for telling me. How could I or anyone fall into the trap of thinking that our little children are not aware of what they’re going through. Not just question and answer sessions with them, not just discipline/punishment, not just the “because I said so” bullshit line. But being aware of, say, my consolidated synopsis of a situation, like why you have to put gasoline in the car. “The car is thursty and likes to drink the gas, baby!” Thinking back on it now, that little polite smile she gives me for one of these types of answers makes me want to punch myself in the face. Behind that complementary smile is a bunch of wheels and gears turning trying to really figure out why we need to put gas in the car. And why her daddy couldn’t have just explained it to her in more then one sentence.

To my little girl, you’ve had to go through a lot from my mistaken perspective that I am your superior, intellectually, and otherwise. You have had to go though me not taking you as serious as you deserve. I will stop putting you in the “you’re a 6 year old” box. I will now view you where you really are: on a podium reaching for infinity.

So these are my novice musings. I would love to hear what you all have to say.

2

I thought he was referring to how under-classes are patronised by wealthy do-gooders. They already know their plight and so don’t need to be told about it, advice/consultations from someone who has no idea what its like are irrelevant. In truth they know what others think of them [would otherwise spit on them].

Hmm did I just say more or less the same as your interpretation lols?

.

3

…That is another angle you could look at it I think. From the perspective of intentional spitting. That very well may be what Bowie was trying to express.

For some reason, when I rewatched The Breakfast Club again last night (fist time since I’ve been a father) I automatically viewed the quote to mean how blind adults can be when dealing with any underclassmen. Newborns up to teenagers.

Never the less, if my take on the quote is off base, it really made me open my eyes and just typing out my thoughts on the subject has given me some perspective.

4

I’ve also noticed alot of newer generations of children these days that are smarter.

I once read a news article talking about a generation of big expectations along with the loss of expiriencing a childhood.

What it was describing is how children are groomed more and more to pay all their young lives focused attention to education in the prospects of having a career when they become older that in the process they miss out on what it’s like being a child.

What basically happens is that more and more are taught to work for their adult future where in that process they fail to live as children in their young adolescent present.

I remember reading about a rich couple who had a daughter at the age of seven years old who on a daily basis was doing three hours of math classes, two hours of writing, and another two hours of foreign languages at a private school. That doesn’t seem to leave alot of time leftover just being a child having fun and what have you. At the end of the article it spoke about the modern pressure of having kids grow up too fast.

Not sure if this is what you had in mind creating this thread but it’s the first thing that comes to my mind anyways.

5

I think kids growing up too fast is a good thing, they also did in the past often working from a young age. Problem is that so many learn for such a large part of their life ~ we need to get them working earlier to expand the average working life [for a greater national income etc], not everyone needs a good education or you just end up with people working in factories with degrees.

I know, i’m a grumpy ole git :stuck_out_tongue:

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Yeah, what we need is more working zombies for the status quo. It’s not like we don’t already have a abundant supply of those already.

Let’s indocrinate the little children.

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There is one maginificient thing about the written language. That writing can be viewed from a different perspective by everybody who reads it, and spark revolutions in those who discuss them. Socrates disliked the written language, becaus eof the downsides of it and the turmoil it could cause. He preffered to express ideals through discussion. He was somewhat correct, as minds working together can create much greater thoughts than a single mind.
What I say here applies not only to your child, but to all those around you. Everything you do or say to someone will effect them at some point in life. The idea of teaching is not to use their minds against them, but to be there when they are ready to talk or listen. Give advice when needed, and refrain when it seems the best possible action. We do not learn by taking orders from a person, but by discussing with one another, as we are doing here.
In the end, only the single person can uncover the lesson. Having someone teach you gives you an idea of what learn, thus helping, but the lesson itself can only be learned by application or thought. Learning by application is a quicker way to learn, but much more difficult than learning slowly through thought. Most times however, it is both methods working together that solves the problem.
If the person does not learn, your words will still have an effect. Ever move you make sends a ripple throught the pond, and changes even the things you thought would not be changed. Everything is affected by your every move. The ripple cannot be stopped. With so many people in the world, the ripples become an art of different sized ripples throughout theond, with some joining together for one massive effect and some being hidden from global knowledge by bigger events. It is a complex way to think of life, but it makes sense when viewed clearly.
So remember, whether the effects are visible or not, you are having an impact. It is rarely the impact you intended, but the intention is what counts.

8

They’ll be indoctrinated no matter what. More people adding income either as bosses or workers relieves the burden on the rest ~ and is more realistic, we cant all be entrepreneurs.

I take your point though. Sometimes I just post viewpoints, and be the persona thereof, it doesn’t mean its what I believe in. I want to see peoples arguments on both sides of the coin.

Only the other day I was arguing on the side of the greek people, that the EU just lends to their govt at CCC rates so that they force people to pay more taxes, where currently many exchanges are done via cash [which means less tax naturally]. Essentially the capitalists just want ever more ways to screw ordinary people for money, and to make the minority richer [lenders into the national debt etc].