There is something very special about babies Faust, we were all one at a point in our lives, that’s very special. From conception till some point when we arbitrarily say we are adults, we are children in a matrix of actions and identities.
I can just as easily disregard the need to keep Faust or Shieldmaiden alive as they can support infanticide. I need a kidney, why not take Faust’s? ISIS does just this.
Under calculations such as these, we’ve isolated logic from reason. We can look at societies that didn’t have as much concern.
For example, Shieldmsiden claims murder is a mothers prerogative, no one elses. For some magically shamaic reason, there is a logic bubble around a woman’s supreme right to kill another human. None shall penetrate it, inviolable.
Romans built up another such logic bubble, but it wasn’t the mothers right, but the father… actually, the oldest male alive the father was descended from… so grandpop had the right to come in and tummy punch his daughter-in-laws stomach against her objections. He can come in and snap the neck of the child once born. He could kill it as a adolescent, as a adult, when he got married.
Same for his male descendants. He could also sell them into slavery. He also could enslave a great number of classes of people, or buy slaves, or liberate them.
Carthage practiced infanticide on a grand scale for religious purposes. Child had to consent to being sacrificed, much like a goat in vedic ritual… how well do you think a child can reason this?
ISIS regularly practices human sacrifices, and does forced human organ surgeries from unwilling captives to fund their war efforts.
The Nazis didn’t hesitate to gas a large portion if it’s population in parallel to the prescriptions of that Nietzschean philosophers, George Bernard Shaw.
So yes, we can reduce our thought to a point where we can eliminate the value of any life, delineating a behavioral scheme to follow. Identifying “them” as people or non-people, as some sort of on off switch, hasn’t been seen as a aspect of cruelity by them, ever. We all possess a latent capacity to do this. Many, apparently, are quite selective about what is disturbing (Shiekdmaiden despises KTS for manipulating young men into perversion, yet has no worries about killing a child), (Joker willingly advocates murder of others, but doesn’t want it in return, and 99% inverts this reasoning to +Me, -Others). I support killing terrorists in a strategic calculas, based on Utilitarian principles. We all do this, but few really do the comparison of their ideas to others, figure out how to stagger Actions to Categorical Imperatives. They do exist, it’s the law of the US Military, our rules of engagement is always based on it.
Its why Shieldmaiden and psychospaths like her are prohibited from late birth abortions, are stopped by police when the mother tries to drive her children into water to drown them when they are emotionally upset. Its why we build prisons, to house guts like Joker, so they can only harm themselves and like minded individuals, bring largely lost to living in a population dense, civilized nation. Its why guys like Faust were defeated in WW2, no regard for human life.
I gotta blame Aristotle’s Modality for this, he nails how we juxtaposition facts and contradictions, but it’s purely objective. It lacks subjective characteristics involved in identifying multiplicities as mutually interdependent and similar. Isn’t able to explain Heraclitian Flux in our ability to see and know a thing, and relate to a thing in all it’s kinds and types of knowing. How well do we really know anything, at a glance, without fallback to discursive recall, and how well can we apply Aristotle’s presumptions then?
I am a great many things, including the foetal, to thus day. The girls my fetal me had is my jaw. Synthetic Cholesterols is what forms the division and symmetry of the organs, the left from the right. In cases of Down Syndrome, it’s distinctive… we all see it instantly. Same goes for other similar disorders.
So it’s more than just chromosomal issues. I believe we will be able to solve the DNA and RNA issues of Down Syndrome within ten years, even in advanced adults, we have to take a stem cell from their marrow, inject functioning genes, chemo the old bone marrow, inject the new cells. Within 7 years (every cell in the body regenerates within 7 years), that person no longer has down syndrome on the cellular level. But that’s not going to change the aesthetics, cholesterol that carves the shape of our organs. The stuff that shapes are hair and nails is what holds the shape of our organs, it’s not cellular based. Likewise, you will have to retrain these guys to think, they spent their lives retarded, it will come as a bewildering shock to find they are starting to think in other ways.
A lot of retarded people today will opt out, or not be able to get this sort of treatment, especially the older ones, but I think governments will more or less force this on our current younger ones, who are already alive. Will they be full humans as far as being able to reproduce? I have my doubts, DS patients are sterile, I have no clue. But, I know the principle has already been shown for other disorders. We will be seeing it soon. I see no reason to kill them.
Children born with only a brain stem, whatever, hamsters have more than a life, but a great many disorders in the currently living are very, very close to change. Bone marrow stem cell manipulation offers this option, it’s not science fiction, we have a few cases of it naturally occurring with select disorders. Its the exciting thing.
When we get into debates like this, and find some people support half of a moral proposition, but not the other half, others a quarter, some in full, a few able to carry it farther than all, others inverting it, we need to be very careful in acting rashly. Just because your position makes sense to you, and you can’t see beyond it, you shouldn’t arbitrarily sign off on killing another person, permanently writing their life off, just cause as of 2015, you were a shithead and couldn’t think in that other cognitive style. The brain doesn’t produce false logic, if we accept a sense of economy to long term evolution… styles to thinking are limited, part of the puzzle, but mutually interdependent. They exist today, make sense within schools of thought, because the hardware that thinks them deserves to exist, is essential for our survival, is a part of being human. It is philosophy. You can’t reverse a death, no coming back from a murder, war, or genocide, so we need to be really thought out before we serve that death sentence on a individual.
The societies I mentioned earlier, the Roman and Cartheginian Empires, Nazis Empire… I could if listed many, including my own… could be immensely cruel. Life was brutal. They could also be compassionate and full of humanity. I have a expectation that a large, largely self sufficient state should grow in it’s ability to combine concepts of humanity, identifying their interlocking functions, and increasingly make it their law, while identifying what makes life cruel and intolerable, increasing the lethality threat to existence, to the dust bin. I don’t think we will be the civilization that full solves this, but we should make every effort in trying to do so.
If Joker can accept the worth of his own life, the injustices launched against him seemingly, and cry to others about it, we can presume there is a larger, modular structure to this, others can do the same, and there is a stable, natural way to map thus out. He laughs at it being in space or time, nothingness, but holds to it stronger none the less than anyone one else here. He is the forums mist religious believer in morality, merely inverts it cynically.
We really should apply ourselves to being more honest about ourselves too. The suggestions given so far suggests we value others less in the same qualities as we value ourselves. In China, they aborted more females than boys selectively, as if being female was a disorder. Now, it has millions of frustrated males. We can ask the question of Should on a Either/Or basis, but we are missing the sanity of even asking it… it’s a society of individuals trying to decide how best to kill other members of a society, which pattern is most pleasing. Its a unsound question to be asking unless there was some overriding imperative that people had to die in the first place (sinking heavy boatc some must get out so others may live)… it’s when Ethics clash with the Law of Identity. If such a scenerio doesn’t exist, it’s unwise for a society to selectively kill segments off on a gamble of a vote. Its a society only because of needs, introducing threats and fear will unravel such a society (which Joker is all for, as long as it doesn’t backfire on him).
Its akin to cannibalism, and in thus case not even out of necessity, but style. If you don’t want children, don’t reproduce. Consequences come from reproduction, but a disorder doesn’t make your child useless. We live in the dark ages of education, but most mentally disabled children can be taught well beyond what they currently are. As parents, capable of reading a philosophy forum, you need to apply yourself a bit more. We are toying with forever concepts here, in a ignorant age, coming out rapidly with new discoveries, well within reason to be accessed by children born today with disorders in the future. When you hold other life in high esteem, you hold your own as well too. Lets try to educate ourselves in the mind, and philosophy, to do the vice versa. Our brains are indeed set up for this in the left hemisphere, it’s why utilitarian thought exists, why multiple civilizations independently have developed it, it’s why aspects of it the world around works. What doesn’t work too well us taking the opposite shitheaded attitude… you end up with Somalia, Eritrea, ISIS.
