death

in my view, the fear of death revolves less around the fact “I” become nothing at all, and more around the irretrivable loss of all we have come know and love and and cherish. In this way a particular death becomes as meaningful and as meaningless as any other death. The paradox of death is that it is so ordinary…and yet so extraordinary when it is finally our own turn to die. We find ourselves gaping into the abyss—just months or weeks or days or hours or minutes to live—and the world continues on its merry way. We face the terror of oblivion while folks around us laugh and love; they make big plans and continue to enjoy themselves immensely.

Until, of course, it is their turn to die.

But, philosophically, none of this really means anything. For what can any one individual human life and death ever matter in the immense vastness of all there is? But this, of course, is what truly appalls us. The enormous futility of it all.

Yes.

I must have missed something. I don’t see HOW a bigger space matters more than a smaller space. Or how vastily matters more than not so vastily. Or how futility matters more than nothing at all.

It makes life more real…more vivid and tangible.

Fear of death and the awareness of mortality:

Yes.

The smaller one is relative to that which one relates oneself too, the harder it is to objectify oneself in this space, to make sense of it, to understand it in terms of ones meanings, ideas… and thus, the more one feels reactions of anxiety, fear, doubt, as one is unable to sufficiently draw this space within oneself, to comprehend it.

Humans sense their vast inner world through encounter with largeness. This throws one face to face with the void of subjectivity. Through this encounter arises fear, denial, hopelessness and despair… and as a response to these, love, awe, faith and joy.

I feel a lot of our fear of death comes from a latent but ever present solipsism, or just ‘ego’. As we are entirely familiar with our own being (and have been all our lives; it is the only perspective we have ever known), to even attempt to imagine how we are when we are dead is incredibly difficult. The whole point is that you don’t sense anything, and have no opinions or inclinations on it.

So we fear this, because it is something we have no experience of (I don’t need to explain to you why we can’t remember times before our birth, I trust).

Furthermore, we are engineered to fear death and all things that indicate the possibility of it. Explanation from an evolutionary standpoint.

Also, when I read Heidegger’s views on our relation to our own death it blew me away, enlightened me almost. Very elucidating stuff for anybody who is interested.

Ever since I was little, when I think of death I think of a completely black isolation where I am alone with my thoughts and have nothing to think about but my life for eternity. I used to actually get nauseous thinking about it.

Philosophically why is a universe, or a sun more important that a person or an ant. That there are a great umber of things means nothing especially as all things are essentially sizeless [e.I as compared to the infinite].

Imho we only worry about death because the mind is so entwined with the body, there becomes a confusion where mind thinks it is of the body, that is that we are what we think our sensory inputs make us. As such we think this mind-body will die because the physical will do so, and yet there is not physical mind only what we put into it. The subject is entire.

I’ve had this thought/experience too, it is quite overwhelming and disorienting.

In the context of the vast universe you and I don’t matter much. That is to say, we don’t make much difference to the universe. However, in the context of our families and our communities we can make a significant difference. All meaning is context dependent. The significance/meaning of our lives is relative to the scope of the context we choose to focus on. Ultimately, the universal scale has no intrinsic superiority or greater importance than any other scale we might choose to look at. There is no reason to take it more seriously or give it more weight or significance than any other sphere. In the contexts that matter to me (family, community, region) I matter in proportion to the contributions I make to these contexts. So do you.

You are reacting to death in the manner in which Mr. Spock might. But death is rarely amenable to the charms of logic.

At least mine isn’t.

From Carol Ascher’s Simone de Beauvoir: A Life of Freedom:

[b]The theme of our mortality, ‘the scandal of finiteness’, threads its way through all of Simone de Beauvoir’s works. From this perspective, her fiction and essays chronicle her attitude toward her own and others’ aging and death. As she writes in different ways at different times, it is death which shapes life—one’s own death as well as the death of others…One may try to transcend death through acting on a value which risks life. But it is death itself which makes this value appear transcendent. Without death, all life’s undertakings lose their meaning.

How can one position oneself intellectually and emotionally toward this ‘scandal,’ as de Beauvoir likes to call it? How can one face this outrage, which simultaneously gives life its meaning?[/b]

On the other hand, one might equally suggest this is a classic example of someone who thinks too much. Is life and death really all that complicated? There have, after all, been literally hundreds of millions of men, women and children who have already lived and died. And regarding the vast majority of them…let’s be blunt…who cares, right?

We are oblivous to them and so it is as though [from our own perspective] they had never even existed at all. Which, of course, given enough time, is the fate of us all. Therefore “scandal” is no less a fiction [a word we invented to rationalize a particular emotional and psychological state] than any other attitude or point of view we might have toward death and dying. All “positions” here are [eventually] interchangable and superfluous. No less so than the actual lives we live. We give “meaning” to these mundane, material relationships only because we can.

Besides, one can just as easily imagine the “scandal of infinity”—not being able to die when our lives have been reduced to an excruciating, unbearable agony. In other words, there are surely things worse than death. Even though many of us [situated comfortably as we may well be now] can’t imagine them.

Or:

From Colin Wilson’s The Outsider:

[b]The Hemingway short stories after 1930 often contain sentences that can be taken as fragments of the Hemingway credo; there is to begin with, Frederick Henry when Catherine is dying:

‘Now Catherine would die. That was what you did. You died. You did not know what it was about. You never had time to learn…they killed you in the end. You could count on that. Stay around and they would kill you.’

Or the reflections of the heartless cripple in “The Gambler, the Nun and the Radio”:

‘Religion is the opium of the people…and now economics is the opium of the people, along with patriotism…What about sexual intercourse, was that an opium of the people? But drink was a sovereign opium, oh, an excellent opium…And some people prefer the radio, another opium of the people’.

There is the old waiter of “A Clean, Well-lighted Place”, who prays: ‘Hail nothing, full of nothing, nothing is with thee.’

Here the encounter with death has become an encounter with the meaninglessness of life, an encounter with nothingness. The only value that remains is courage; Santiago in The Old Man and the Sea with his ‘a man can be destroyed but not defeated.’ And the value of courage is doubtful. Death negates it and the causes that inspire it are usually ‘opium of the people.’[/b]

And:

[b]The examples Hemingway selects for his ‘field of observation’ are all violent and bloody:

‘The first thing you found about the dead was that, hit quickly enough, they died like animals. I do not know, but most men die like animals, not men…’

Speaking of natural death, he comments: ‘So now I want to see the death of any so-called humanist…and see the noble exits they make.’

“The Natural History of The Dead” is hemingway’s clearest exposition of the Existentialist position, and the key sentence, ‘most men die like animals, not men,’ is his answer to the humanist notion of the perfectibility of man. He cannot believe in God…because the idea looks thin against the raw facts of existence. The nearest approach to religous ideals in his work is the sentence ‘he should find things he cannot lose.’ This idea is not followed up, or rather, is followed up by a protracted demonstration that there is nothing man cannot lose. This doesn’t mean that life has no value; on the contrary, life is the only value; it is the ideas that are valueless.[/b]

[my emphasis]

Death from a reasonable point of view is simply the end of life. There is no “abyss” or “oblivion” or whatever, since you are not there to experience anything of the sort. Your death is of equal concern to you as any insignificant event that you are not even aware of. We experience fear to avoid unpleasant experiences that we would regret afterwards. Death does not fit into this category, simply because we would be unable to regret anything that had happened to us or our loved ones afterwards.

Only we as humans give significance to our lives. The concepts of “good” and “bad” and “right” and “wrong” die with us, and “destruction” will be redefined simply as change. It matters not whether it is from complex to simple or vice versa.

Through our reasoning and logic we know that life has no meaning, but as products of evolution our survival instincts prevent us from completely understanding and embracing it. That’s really the only reason why we are still alive.

Death cannot be experienced! I know a lot of people who worry about that yet there are only two options;

  1. You end, experience ends, there is nothing that will be in that dark isolation.
  2. You don’t end, your body ends but you are still alive, billions of people would still be alive, a whole area of existence is yet to be determined. Chances are that there would be nothing between us [no physicality], and the subjective minds would collectively form a very intimate world.

Either way death simply does not exist.

And then there is this exchange from Woody Allen’s Hannah and Her Sisters:

[b]-Aren’t you afraid of dying?

Why be afraid?

  • You won’t exist.

So?

  • That doesn’t terrify you?

I’m alive. When I’m dead, I’m dead.

-Aren’t you frightened?

I’ll be unconscious.

  • But never to exist again?

How do you know?

  • It doesn’t look promising.

Who knows what’ll be? I’ll either be unconscious or I won’t. If not, I’ll deal with it then. I won’t worry now.[/b]

I never understood that painting. This perspective to me looks… incomplete.

Death is an interesting topic, closely related to many more interesting topics. E.g., Schopenhauer and suicide; Socrates and the ‘Two Things Argument’ (in the Apology); Heidegger and being-toward-death; Nietzsche in general; All of the existentialists as well; JohnJones probably has a ‘Philosophy of Death’ he hasn’t shared with us yet…

And there’s lots of interesting questions to be asked about death. E.g., About whether it’s a good thing or a bad; About whether or not we should fear it; About how to live in light of it; About how it affects your ethic; In bioethics, about end-of-life issues; and JohnJones will probably raise some more in his ‘Philosophy of Death’…

Seems like the OP has to do with what impact Death has on the significance of a life. And it takes a negative view. --Would’ve thought it’d’ve been the other way 'round.

quetzalcoatl,

You’re probably right, there is no experience of death, but my mind still grasps for some notion of ‘what it’s like’ to be dead.

I reserve the rest of my comments for JohnJones when he makes his thread.