Point to one animal, specie, or organism that is a “brain only” without a body.
It is my opinion that direct copies of animals are not required for consciousness. There could be unique artificial lifeforms who’s brains are not a 1:1 copy of organic brains, yet could have consciousness.
That’s your opinion, but it isn’t “scientific” until you can produce examples. You suffer from Dualism. Until you can produce examples of ‘disembodied’ consciousness, nobody has any reason to believe you. Surely, the Abrahamic religious followers, may not want or need evidence. But that’s not science; it’s religion.
And it is a continuation of already dominant and popular beliefs, around the world. “AI” can easily be substituted for the Abrahamic ‘God’ (Mind).
Consciousness of what? Of being a consciousness? This is pretty much the same as the Christian soul.
No consciousness separate from organisms…
If we wish to imagine one, then we can fantasize…but if we wish to exist Ni reality, as mundane as it may be, then no evidence of any consciousness separate from organic life.
Describing conscientiousness will help.
Consciousness is discrimination. A constant juxtaposition, like a film reel…every difference distinguishing movement…organizing everything into categories.
Two sources…external, via the sense organs, including the skin, and internal, via the organs, cells…both use the nervous system to transmit sensory data to a brain, if it is present, where it is processed into imagery, sound, scents, textures, sensations, abstractions…etc.
In organisms with no nervous system the processing occurs locally - re actively…cascading across the body.
The organisms own energies - types of patterns, elements - attracted to what is like themselves, or repulsed by what is not, or what threatens its organization, its harmonious unity. The attraction/repulsion evolving over time - naturally selected.
Harmony/disharmony is another way of describing attraction/repulsion.
Energies in harmony attract, because there is little resistance, friction, between them.
You never disproved dualism.
So there is a TV screen of consciousness in the brain? Show me it. If there wasn’t Dualism then you could just look in the brain and see a TV screen. Now THAT is science.
As for the hard problem of consciousness (what you are discussing), we can form a series of logical axioms.
I don’t have to have scientific support to disprove a negative. If someone says 100,000 lightyears away, there is some flying spaghetti man, I don’t need science to prove or disprove it. I cannot disprove it. If you make bold claims like “embodiment is needed for consciousness”, it is equivalent to saying there is some flying spaghetti man 100,000 lightyears away. I cannot prove nor disprove it, its random rubbish claims.
Now its obvious that you need computations to have a mind. It is not obvious that you need organic matter to have a mind. What’s more, its not obvious that if someone transplanted their brain that they would all of a sudden be incapable of consciousness. That’s what you are asserting: that if someone safely transplanted their brain, that all of a sudden, consciousness would magically disappear. Absurd. And then some political nonsense about Abrahamic or something. And how we ought not to be just a brain without bodies. No shit! Give this man a nobel prize or something.
The first form of consciousness juxtaposes self with other.
First persona perspective.
Th organism only perceives otherness, relative to itself, which it need not be aware of.
The next evolutionary step is second-person…then third-person…
Third person perspective is where objectivity arises - perception of self and other from a third-person point fo view.
Here’s another one, predicting that one day AI will eliminate most of human work. It’s open to debate whether this is actually desirable or not.
A monkey is conscious of its environment; its body houses its brain.
A parrot is conscious of its environment; its body houses its brain.
A turtle is conscious of its environment; its body houses its brain.
A fish is conscious of its environment; its body houses its brain.
Now show me one example of consciousness that isn’t housed in a body…
Interesting, but I believe it is a get-rich-quick vaporware, or as you said, maybe a few of them were real, but they were way ahead of the curve and the market is dried up or saturated now.
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Fallacious argument.
You are referencing animals which exist because of evolution and naturally have a body. The evolution grew both the body and mind. We are talking about artificially concocted minds.
I’ll make this easier for you.
There are three separate questions here.
The first one: Can a silicon chip have a mind?
The second one: Does an AI need a robot body to have a mind?
The third: Is there disembodied consciousness floating in space, like ghosts?
You seem to be mixing all 3, at random.
Really, some of these videos have left me somewhat scared. I didn’t know AI was that advanced. Imagine an AI foreseeing your every thought, your every attitude. I think this “humans are useless, let’s get rid of them” scenario is quite a bit forfeit though. Science fiction material.
Anyway, an AI capable of managing a man’s life, and basically doing all his work, even thinking for him, is pretty much attainable, so this raises many questions: WHAT ARE WE TO DO IN A WORLD WITHOUT WORK?, for instance. If AI can create literature, art, food, all types of entertainment, WHAT IS LEFT FOR US? But then, will AI really be a reality for all, or only for the privileged? Will third world countries benefit from it? Or will they always remain the same? Questions, questions.
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Animals, including humans, are predictable because they fall into behavioral patterns, and it is difficult for them to break out of them.
Vices, are particularly beneficial to behaviorists.
No no, you were talking about artificially concocted minds. I responded that that is why they are “Artificial”. Because Artifice is, supposedly, separated from Nature, as-if it were a clean break. Furthermore, I already made my counter-argument. A computer’s “mind” is its computer parts and functions, its Hardware.
Computerization is insanely wild, if you step back and think about the process… A rock imbued with magical runes (transistors), and then struck with lightning (power/electricity). It does seem as-if Hominids received alien technology and back-engineered it. Almost as-if we retrieved a crashed UFO from Roswell New Mexico in 1947 and used its tech to spurn forth unparalleled invention and innovation since then…
Who knows, probably just fantasy though…
Indeed, an intelligence magnitudes higher than our “Trust the Experts”, best of the best Humans, is very frightening:
It’s intimidating being in the presence of somebody or something leagues higher in IQ. Yet, that is the state of Nature already. The ‘lower’ species fear and respect their superiors. So it is the same throughout Human society and institutions. Do slow people and intellectually disabled people, also feel such anxiety? Do they not need special protections, provided by social agreement and the State, to persist and function?
Consider a society that does not treat its poor, feeble, and infirm well. Certainly everybody has experiences of growing up around somebody who is deeply stupid. Those are easy targets for bullies, ostracization, and violence. Intellectually disabled people must be protected, or they get picked off early in life. It is mostly through Christian culture and charity, that Western society protects them from predators of our own.
This rule would apply directly to the super-intelligence of an AI. Coded with the ‘wrong’ ethics… the results should be obvious.
Fear (pressure), and very few rewards (outlets), is the primary mechanism the political classes use to redirect and guide the bovine, domesticated masses. MSM does this daily. When the Boomer generation starts dying off, their stranglehold on Western MSM will release, and become decentralized through new technologies such as the internet and global ‘social’ media. It is why the Gaza situation exploded, because now the world sees atrocity in real-time, only limited by State-organized censorship and restrictive information laws.
In the West, that control is very lax, compared to the ‘Great Cyberwall’ of China. It is non-existent in East Russia, where Slavic hackers basically have almost no rules or regulations against them.
Fear/Anxiety is the mother of all emotions.
You do realise that this is a completely circular argument since the US mean is what informs the “normal”.
It’s exactly like GW Bush saying in horror that half of Americans are below average reading standard. Well duh!
Think about it.