Define God

The fundamental challenge to define god is the same as to define any word or concept. To define something presumes authority over that thing. Because to define is to control. For example let’s say I redefined “roses” as “grobbolots”. And everybody accepted that grobbolots are now roses. Nobody will use the term “rose” anymore. Instead rose has a new definition. Furthermore, I define grobbolots as blue and 7 feet tall. Now this will confuse people. Because people do not expect roses to be blue or 7 feet tall. Regardless, presuming authority over the term, people will accept the definition regardless. Of course, changing the definition of a thing does not change its nature. But it does change the means of its communication and understanding. Changing a definition changes the knowledge of that thing. So what people knew of roses, now as grobbolots, will change the common expectations, experiences, and knowledge of these things.

To define something is to control how that thing is understood, known, and interpreted. Definitions do not change the nature of a thing. Because definitions do not, this necessitates an objective reality underlying all things. Everything exists in such a way that definitions cannot change them, but only ‘discover’ them through interpretations of human knowledge. So it is not the definition of a “rock” that changes, through human interpretation. Instead it is how and why humans attempt to know and understand rocks. Why is such knowledge important? Is it useful? And yes, it is very useful. Because language, ultimately, allows human minds to connect to one another and exchange ideas or information. Language is the means by which humans distribute data among the specie.

To define god as “nothing”

Atheists define god as “nothing” and “impossible” from their premise. This is the reason why atheists eventually claim that “god does not exist”. Because atheist presume that god cannot “be a thing”. For example, I cannot point to a rock, a rose, an elephant, a bag of bones, and claim “that is god”. Because the atheist will reject this presumption on behalf of their underlying premise. To the atheist, god can never “be a thing”. Because if god could be anything, then god could exist. But atheists have the incredulous audacity and childish ignorance to make a much greater claim on behalf the definition of god. It is not that god “cannot exist” now. Atheists also claim that god cannot exist in the past or in the future. For example, I cannot grab a historical document, signed by god, and present this to an atheist to say, “you see, this is proof that god existed long ago”. Because god can never exist, to the atheist. However the truly interesting dilemma of the atheist, is that she is obligated to make further claims, that god cannot exist in the future. And because an atheist secretly holds this premise, and never lets it go, never questions and doubts it (as any decent philosopher would), the atheist gets stuck in a logical fallacy. Just because god may not have existed in the past, or now, wouldn’t mean that god could not exist in the future. Because what is impossible now, or in the past, may become possible in the future. For example, humans (atheists) long ago used to believe that the sun revolved around the earth, and humans would never fly. But they were proved absolutely wrong. They were exposed as simple minded fools, who ought to have their mouths shut, in the presence of those who obliterate impossibility. Because the mind of a fool is constrained by a large network of impossibility.

What is impossible for the fool, is most probable for the genius. And it is the nature of a fool (atheist) to pull everybody else down to his low expectations (impossibility) of the world, rather than to erase those impossibilities and focus on what is possible.

The atheist mind is one beset by and racked with impossibility.

To define god as “everything”

This is a most classical interpretation of god. God is everything. Because god is presumed as the creator or cause of everything. Why is this rock on the ground here, but not there? Isn’t there a cause for this? Yes, there is, because there is a cause for all things. The puny mind of a human may not be able to ascertain the causes of everything. But this doesn’t mean causes cease to exist. So this is the fundamental difference of mindset between the atheist (fool) and the theist (enlightened). The theist realizes that his own experience and limited knowledge does not reflect on the innate causality of the universe and existence. Existence precedes essence. When you go to sleep at night, or are unconscious at any time, the world does not cease to exist. Existence is other than consciousness. Instead, consciousness is a conclusion, a result of intelligence, evolution, and natural selection. Some creatures are extraordinarily conscious, intelligent, and evolved, while others are not. Some humans are closer to god (most intelligent) while others are farther away from god, and closer to animals (atheists, least intelligent). Atheists believe that somethings are “uncaused”. They just happen randomly, magically. This is false. Because to believe in god, and presuppose god as everything, is to presuppose causality. When the atheist loses track of causes, and demonstrates her ignorance, then she blames others, never herself. The atheist blames god for her own misfortunes.

So this is the nature of difference of the atheist and theist mindset, concerning god, as a definition of everything or nothing.

The theist accepts existence, accepts causality, and accepts human limitation of knowledge. This is the reason why god is greater than humanity.
The atheist rejects existence, rejects causality, and rejects human limitations. This is the reason why atheists have the childish egotism to see themselves as gods.

Atheists want the world to revolve around them, and their petty little needs and emotions. Instead theists realize that the world, universe, and existence does not revolve around any individual.

Existence revolves around god.

No, it doesn’t. Defining a word is just a way of communicating to someone, “When I use these syllables, I use them as shorthand for such-and-such concept”.

Yes they will.

To whom and when? Certainly not to most people, almost all of the time.

They will? Who would do that?

No sane person will change their expectations of how tall or how blue roses are because of your definition of grobbolots.

You’re clearly very ignorant about atheism. Sounds like this is a strawman you heard being spewn from the pulpit of someone who needs to wear a helmet to get through everyday life.

I stopped reading here.

One of the sillier threads posted here.
full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Kropotkin

Khm, khm

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=187013

Do you still think God is an apple, Wizard? And have you found me some God bones finally?

Not a single serious response?

Must be because I’m right

I can see how you’d discard my response as non serious, but then again, your entire thread is a bunch of strawmans and misconceptions that anybody with basic education on the subject and sincerity would be ashamed of, even theists.

And Flannel Jesus’s response was far more serious than you deserve.

Nope,

I would consider it a “serious” response if one of you presented your own definition of god in a similar fashion. But you don’t, because, exposing your rationale how you define god would basically reaffirm my suppositions.

Also Flannel Jesus did not offer a coherent response, since he doesn’t even know what he’s talking about regarding authority of language. What does it mean to speak with authority about a word or concept? It means, to speak from a position of knowledge. So to define god, or speak about god with authority, also presumes a position of knowledge. But knowledge of what? What or who is the “thing” of god? I already mentioned this. If god is everything, then speaking of god with authority would also be to speak about everything, or nothing, with authority. So the rationale is obvious.

Most of you are on a beginner level here. I want to raise you up to an intermediate, mediocre level. So try to follow along.

How can there be a knowledge of god while god is undefined?

That would make god a core.

A god ≡ who/whatever incontestably determines what can or cannot be concerning a particular situation.
The God ≡ Who/Whatever incontestably determines All that can or cannot be concerning any situation.

God ≡ is the ever-present, ongoing cause of the universe, the reason that the universe persists (whatever that reason might be).

I already did that in your Anti Atheism thread.

Why are you so attached to the word God? It’s obvious that your definitions have vaguely anything to do with the general theistic definitions. You can express your concepts with different, more fitting words than “God”.

Is this yet another atheist vs theist thread? Oh well.
For me God is the source and sustainer of the universe. I realize atheists would say that the universe needs neither. Stalemate.
For me God will, at any final end, reclaim all creations, which includes us. I realize atheists believe that when we die our elements go back into nature.
Stalemate.
Show me an argument that is more than he said, she said.

Incorrect, if you could pay attention to the first page of this thread, then you’d notice that James S Saint and Ierrellus both just coincided with my answer, that god is the ultimate causal agent (creator) of the universe.

Now your definition of god was too simplistic and wrong. In the previous thread, you attributed all “evil” to god, even though you are unfit to judge and determine what is evil yourself, without attributing all “good” to god. Why was that? Why would an atheist want to put all the bad and evil onto god’s shoulders, but none of the good? Let’s figure that one out.

You can’t argue with this right? After all, it only requires of one to either believe or not to believe that it is true.

Which means that God can be [or defined to be] practically anything; and then come to mean practically anything in our lives.

And that is fine until the manner in which we link what we think God is to the manner in which we interact with others.

And here what we think and believe about God can come into conflict with what others think and believe about Him.

The rest is history.

K: and once again with the egotism that says, I know more than you and let me teach you because
you are less than mediocre (your words). You are clueless, pure and simple. Just look at what you
wrote…you are insulting your audience and then expecting them to listen to you…
What kind of dope insults their audience and then expects to participate in a discussion?

Kropotkin

Kropotkin,

What I expect is simple. I expect you to define god. Surprise me. Show me how it’s different in anyway than already presented. You define god as nothing. You make god impossible from the premise. This is how I know the mind of an atheist better than she knows herself. Because I am able to think around and outside your premises. I am more than willing to doubt my premises. You are not. You are unwilling to accept the possibility and imminent probability of god. God is 100% probable.

God is the cause of all, existence. Absolute causality.

Remember the argument,

The rock is here, not there, why? There is a reason. Because there is a cause. Once you understand the reasons and causes, then you will begin to understand god.

Why are you so afraid of the word “God”. What is the source of that fear?

My definitions expose the very essential property required for anything to be called a “god”, because if it doesn’t conform to that concept, it can’t really be a god of anything and those who speak of gods can easily see that.

Now if you want to dispute the other properties of a god, why aren’t you being honest enough to do that rather than vainly attempt to deny the obvious? You are the one being disingenuous (which has been noted to be the most common property of your group).

Hehe, I’m not. All I’m saying is that you use the word God in a way that’s different from what’s commonly understood so you should expect confusions, as most atheists are atheists (non believers) in relation to the general concept of a theistic God, which is essentially a sentient being creating the universe and interacting with humans.

Your supposed theistic God doesn’t even necessarily have to be a “who”, much less interact with humans, both being essential to the concept of the theistic God as it is generally understood. So no, your definition doesn’t contain all the essential properties required to call something God.

It’s as if I defined God as a square circle and then demanded that you admit being an atheist because you don’t believe in square circles. A more extreme example than yours admittedly, but I’m just trying to get my point across, which is that you can’t force somebody into another position by making absurd or vague definitions that significantly deviate from the generally accepted ones.

I have criticized JSS’s definition precisely because it can coincide with too much to be considered a decent definition of a theistic god. According to JSS’s definition, natural laws and initial singularity can be called Gods too.

The essential parts of a theistic God are:

  1. To be a sentient being, a WHO (not a whatever)
  2. To have created the universe
  3. To interact with humans

JSS’s definition only contains 2 necessarily, 1 is possible and 3 isn’t even mentioned. If anything, JSS’s God is a deistic one if it is a who. Otherwise it doesn’t make sense to call it a God.

Are you saying that if the common populous misunderstand physics, then the world should redefine physics and then claim that physics is absurd?

That is what you and others are doing.

And neither does the Catholic version, nor Jewish, nor Islamic, nor Hindu. The ignorant always misunderstand what the fundamentals of their religion have always been about. And being a “religion” intended to help maintain the order among the people, doesn’t go to any effort to correct them about what is essentially a detail that changes nothing of the outcome.

That is exactly what YOU are doing.
YOU redefine God as something commonly mistaken as a “square-circle” and then proclaim that all religion is merely absurdity. You are guilty of your own accusation, the MO of the day.

That is YOUR definition and fantasy with which you create your strawman.

Thomas Aquinas, among others, disagrees with you.

Why are you so afraid to just say,
“I believe in God, but I don’t believe that God is a person.”

That is a very common understanding.