Define Religion and Atheism.

and discuss.

My defintion is:

Religion - a system of beliefs with the purpose of promoting a set containing one or more beliefs perlogisticlly or otherwise.

perlogistic - similar to perlocutionary. where as perlocutionary act is one in which you say something with the intention of gathering or providing other information perlogistic is seeming logic with the intention of promoting (or perhaps gathering) other things that are actually logical.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perlocutionary_act

also up for discussion:

atheism - a belief that there is no god(s). despite that etymologically it may mean an absence of belief in god. in other words i think that most people who claim to be atheist are really claiming that there is no god. ( I know big assumption)

with my definition of religion i would say that atheism is a potentially pre-religionary belief, in that it is a belief that can be an aspect of a set of beliefs intended to be arrived at by another system of beliefs.

[size=50]I’m betting this thread already exists somewhere obvious…[/size]

According to the Wikipedia page you linked and this definition, perlocutionary refers to a speech act’s general ability to have an affect, of virtually any kind, on a listener. That’s all. As an analogous concept, perlogistic would be something like a logical chain’s general ability to have an affect upon an audience. If you take perlogisitc to mean " apparent instances of logic which promote other things that are logical" then it’s not really similar to the idea of perlocutionary. You should clarify, though, because it sounds like your idea could be interesting.

atheism: not having a religion

religion: anything else

Atheism: a belief that there is no immaterial reality (IR) held together with the belief that there is a material reality (MR).

Yes IR & Yes MR (poly/mono-theism)
Yes IR & No MR (illusion-ism)
No IR & Yes MR (atheism)
No IR & No MR (e.g. Tibetan Buddhism)

I understand “religion” to mean a set of beliefs that in a general sense guides thought and behavior; something of overwhelming memetic significance in the mind of those who espouse it. (Though looking through various definitions online, it would appear this is an eccentric definition at best, so I guess I’m something of a kook on the matter.)

As for atheism, most atheists argue the whole “lack of belief” thing, but experience tells a different story; specifically, I’d argue there are heaps of dogma involved that goes way beyond merely not believing in “God.” In many cases, for instance, it means believing anyone who uses the word “God” to refer to anything other than a joke character like the Flying Spaghetti Monster is an idiot, that religion is the worst thing ever in the history of the world, that theism is an enemy of “free thought,” that “religious” people are brainwashed, that science is the only means to truth (or is the only truth that “matters”), that all faith is bad faith, and so on.

what i mean by perlocutionary act i guess is for example asking x in order to know y as apposed to x: for example, i asked my boss once “do you want me to do 1 first or 2 first.” he said do 1 first what this let me know though is that i was supposed to to 2 at some point otherwise he would have said i don’t need you do do 2. so a perlogistic is a bit of logic or a belief that is intended to be had (regardless of validity) in order to support another belief that is or may not be valid…

Further i would thus say that it is silly of people like atheists to claim that religion is bad simply because most or some or any of the beliefs within are not valid, as it is perfectly plausible that those beliefs will inevitably lead to a set containing one or more beliefs that is/are valid. Further that atheism came about out of a theist society… so… maybe that is one of those beliefs perlogisticly arrived at. Sometimes we must realize absurdity by the practice of absurdity.

These definitions are not counters of each other, in my view.

Religion: an organized set of practices married to concepts that are together used for ontological pursuits of an experientially evocative comprehension of one’s relationship with one’s identity of reality.

Atheism: lacking a belief in divine beings.

There are several atheistic religions.
Technically speaking, many variations of the Buddhist religion are of the atheist family (though some argue it more fitting to class them as ‘transtheistic’).

Atheism’s counter is Theism, not religion.
Areligion would lexically be the counter to Religion; though no such word yet exists and most that bother simply would write, ‘non-religion’.

However, since most non-religious individuals in our culture are likely going to be atheist, due to our cultural religion being dominantly theistic, atheist is often used by many as if it is a lexical counterpart to religious.

For fun, next time someone asks if you are religious, answer yes and omit that you are not theistic and see if they continue the conversation as if you just stated that you were theistic.

I place myself into this category, religious but not theistic - but I wouldn’t mess with peoples heads in that way (it is against my religion :smiley: ).

Religions are a remedy to the existential anguish.
Atheism is the refusal of the remedy.

Religions pretend to know a transcendent truth.

However, religion and atheism are founded upon the same belief.
In fact both believe in the becoming.

For them it is existent only what it is now here, while what was or it will be it does not exist, but it existed or it will exist.
For them the Becoming creates and destroys the Being.

The moment has come to put this in discussion.

That seems a bit short of an accurate summation of the entire human species, bobgo.
Not every person involved in religion is anguished.
Equally, simply being defined as a thing which remedies anguish does not exclusively outline religion; there are many remedies for anguish in this world other than aspects within religions.

Atheism, equally, is not a dismissal of any remedy. As I pointed out above, there are several religions which are atheistic religions.
Atheist simply means there is a lack of belief in divine beings; many religions have no such concept of divine beings in their conception of reality.

Equally, stating that Atheism is the refusal of the remedy implies that the remedy is theism, and equates all religion to theism; which is not an accurate description of the human species’ history and current standing with religion as a whole.

Based on the end of your post, you appear to be speaking, instead, about the difference between a physicalist and a metaphysicalist rather than atheism and religion.

In the post I made, I proposed a challenge:
“For fun, next time someone asks if you are religious, answer yes and omit that you are not theistic and see if they continue the conversation as if you just stated that you were theistic.”

Your post context applies to this. Your assumptions of the inheritance of the words to the concepts you link to them are based on a very exclusive struggle of frustration that you are proxy to by the culture surrounding you.
However, I would propose, that furthering this non-inherent link between these concepts to these words only actually festers the frustration that you are describing as needing to be addressed to resolution.

Perhaps it could be more advantageous to look at the terms for what they are, and look at people without requiring to fit but a few categorical labels to all variations of human behavior spiritually and existentially; as the human species is far more diverse than a dichotomic range of interpersonal relationships with reality, subjugated to only binary expression.

In human behavior, isolating the options to only one or the other tends to create more confrontation and outburst in recipients than it does aid to reduce such confrontation, as humans do not typically feel quantifiable in two fractions of a matter which is as diverse as the human biology is in regards to emotional scope.
And the human emotional scope is far more elaborate than simply two options, and as such most will not feel adequitly expressed by the scope of religion vs atheist, and especially not when the former is described as only a remedy for anguish (which not every devoted adherent to all of the religions of the world adheres for) and the latter is only described as a denial of that remedy (which blankets all atheists as denialist even though there are plenty of religious atheists in this world, and not every non-religious atheist feels religion is to be denied, but simply does not believe in divine beings, or may not have any emotional impulse to drive them to search for a religion).

Also, I wouldn’t assert that religions pretend to know a transcendent truth.
It would be more appropriate to assert that religions believe that they have a transcendent truth of some fashion.
Of course, I could assert this about philosophy as well, so this is not unique to religion, but it is religion that marries a reverence to the concept whereas philosophy has a history of attempting to hold nothing within its tomes as sacred or revered.
This, then, is the separation: for religious pursuits emotional logic is applicable and accepted; in many cases it is the foremost employed logic, whereas for philosophical pursuits emotional logic is unacceptable and considered to be illogical.

If these two ways of reasoning confront, they will inherently be on differing lexicons of the language in which they use and the assumptions of how a person should reason; thereby making it very difficult for the two schools of thought to pass by each other while addressing human conception.

I don’t buy people’s assertions of whether they’re religious or atheist. I look at how they reason. If the necessary end of their reasoning…taken far enough is religious, then they’re religious whether they claim to be or not.

Religion is existential concern about ultimate meaning. Atheism is the rejection of a personal God.

You are right Jayson. There is not an exact opposition between religion and atheism.
However, the essence of every religion is to furnish a remedy to the existential anguish, even if the religion is atheistic.
Atheism is the refusal of the remedy proposed by theistic religion, but atheism too can propose a remedy itself.

I believe that nobody is exempt of the existential anguish. Because the existential anguish is the rationality reverse of the medal.
With the birth of the rationality, existential anguish is also born.

Many are the remedies. A remedy can be the technique, that defeats the illnesses and it lengthens the life. Or a remedy can be an ideology.
So many remedies for only an evil: the Nihilism.
Nihilism derives from the existential anguish. Nihilism is inevitable if not fought, or if a remedy is not adopted…

I have respect for any religion and for atheism too. But I see in them a weakness: All of them have as base the belief to know the Truth.
Their Truths have to be the “answer”, while in reality nobody is able to know the Truth.

It is not the time of declared truths anymore. They are not more acceptable. Nobody knows the Truth.

But, if Truth does not belong us… also the Becoming is not an absolute Truth!

Putting in discussion the Becoming it means to remove strength from the Nihilism.

And the war between Athens and Jerusalam continues.
Athens fights for philosophy, truth, reason, cognition and science, and
Jerusalem for spiritualism, revelation, and purity.

Note: Just having a bit of symbolic fun.

I hope my side wins.

I hope for peace.

Yes, but they must be the rigid assertion to be the pillars by which the blending by those like yourself is possible by reflection of their idealized absolution.
They are the walls to which the space is made between.

I will always be found to admire a rigid adherence.
It is good that such is represented, so that it is known what it is in purity.

I think that it is necessary by now to reach the heart of the “rigid assertion”.

It is not the time anymore for objective truths, because nothing of objective can be really the Truth.
We have to reach the heart of the Faith. That is not faith in something of objective.

Which is the only necessary faith indeed?

It is Faith in Truth!

This is the only essential pillar.

Truth that appears in our world as nothing.
But it is through this faith that I become aware of my Transcendence.

You know that is the truth, do you?