_Something is real iff it is a cause, that is to say, consciousness, feeling or God.
_An effect is real iff it is the motion of a subatomic particle.
_An effect is abstract iff it is the belief of a consciousness.
_Consciousness produces beliefs and realizes beliefs.
_All beliefs are abstract beliefs.
_What beliefs realize are real but the belief itself is not real.
_False beliefs realize real things but they do not realize what consciousness believes is real.
For example, if I sacrifice a cow to Apollo, the subatomic particles that compose the cow really do move and really are realized by my consciousness, but Apollo is not real. He is a false belief and no subatomic particles correspond to Apollo. As for God, God is that which sets the bounds within which consciousness can move the subatomic particles. This is not a thread about theism v atheism so if you deny that, then just suspend your disbelief and focus on abstract objects for now.
Feeling (sensation) is a bit weird. Consciousness learns but it can’t learn anything if it doesn’t know at least a few things to begin with. Feeling enables consciousness to know things directly. We all agree that there is a consciousness and there is a subconsciousness. Those of us that are not epiphenomenalists agree that sometimes the subconsciousness causes the behavior of the body and sometimes the consciousness causes the behavior of the body. When the consciousness causes behavior it does it with beliefs that (in humans) can be verbalized. As some of you may know, I’m a panpsychist, so I believe energy is consciousness and that there is a consciousness governing a hydrogen atom. When the electron absorbs a photon, the consciousness governing that atom, simply feels the absorbing of that photon.
Information can be changed. Objectivity is when you change your senses by thought as little as possible, so that it is pure sense, of outside world objects.
Abstractions are when you change an idea from the senses so much, that it no longer represents the natural world like it used-to.
A completely abstract thought is a thought which is an expression of the inside of the mind.
I differ in that i think there is a consciousness, but it is only one of the many elements and foundations. Consciousness is its own element and so also there is watery, firey, earthy, airy elements, each of many many kinds, which are the body of matter.
Yikes. I don’t even know where to start. God is real if it is a cause. What’s your point? That some god is real, or that it is real if and only if it is a cause? That is, I have no idea what your claim or definition is. Are you defining causes or real things?
Actually, I’ve learned recently that the idea has already been thought of. It’s called Alexander’s dictum: to exist is to have causal powers.
Anyway, yes, I’m claiming that all causes are real. So if a consciousness causes a body to move then that movement is real.
Effects can be either real or abstract. A belief is real if a consciousness attempts to realize it. If a consciousness believes that hitting a cue ball is what they should do and they do it, then that effect is real. If consciousness simply believes in a circle but never draws the circle, then the circle remains abstract. Circles are always abstract. If I draw a circle on a chalk board what is real is the molecules of talc or whatever chalk is made of. The idea of a circle remains abstract. Hope that helps.
Except when you are faced with hard problems, like the fact that cars kill people or that frogs exist, you run away and hide by claiming that they don’t exist. Sad.
Don’t you mean to say that is consciousness causes a body to move then the consciousness is real?
Anyway, a rock might not be the discernible cause of anything, but we may also justifiably think the rock is real.
i think what what you are trying to say is that everything that is real is a cause. And this is most commonly employed in mental realism. And that’s where you have this idea that an ideas are real. But then you also claim that beliefs, which are usually included in ideas, are not real.
And i think that’s the problem in general with these quick, easy little lists of premises that people use as arguments. You seem to be trying to make a complex argument with a quick little list. I can’t follow it.
Dan~ has given you a hint - whenever you say that one thing is everything as in “all is energy” - that thing loses it’s explanatory power.
Cars don’t kill people. It is the subatomic particles the make up the car that kill people. But those subatomic particles were set in motion by a consciousness anyway.
Frog is an abstraction. There is a consciousness governing a frog.
The subatomic particles that compose a rock are real, but rock is an abstraction. The only real bodies are the quarks, neutrinos, electrons and bosons.
What belief realizes is real. What beliefs are about may or may not be real. Feelings are real but beliefs aren’t. A feeling causes you to feel something. A belief is an effect. You cause beliefs, at least in my worldview you do. I realize some people believe that beliefs are products of random atoms in motion. If I cause a belief about Santa Claus, obviously that does not mean that Santa Claus has real existence, he has only abstract existence. If I put on a red coat and pretend I’m Santa the subatomic particles that make up that coat are real but the belief that I’m Santa is not real, it’s abstract.
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I think you’re right. Maybe I was being too cryptic. I’m going to supplement the premises with a more in depth explanation.