I congratulate you for refusing to answer what could only expose you as a fraud, and a pro-mass immigration loony like all communists are.
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Can we make an argument for the idea of what is wrong with ICE to begin with?
I mean aside from the below average amount of training and organization.
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I.C.E. -Immigration customs enforcement.
I support that. It’s progressive liberals that are against that because I would argue they’re the true utopians who believe in a borderless world concerning the free movement of people cross national government jurisdictions.
I would also argue Trump is doing a lousy job because as I stated earlier Obama deported much larger numbers than the Trump administration where one wonders if their political cabinet is being intentionally ineffective.
A couple of months ago Trump was talking about the agricultural corps coming under direct investigation by I.C.E. and of course the corporations balked at the possibility saying there wasn’t enough workers to fill up the space or vacuum should illegal migrant workers be rounded up. Of course there would be more agricultural workers if these same corporations paid workers more wages but they won’t do that because it isn’t profitable for them where instead it is by far more cheaper for them to exploit illegal undocumented workers.
Neoconservatives everywhere will always go on tangents that it is Marxists, socialists, and communists internationally in some kind of grand coordinated conspiracy to flood western nations with mass foreign immigration, yet if you actually look at the business entities orchestrating these things it is almost always a capitalist business corporation trying to maximize financial profits by exploiting documented or undocumented foreign labor.
As I have said elsewhere, if the national economy was socialist or communist there would be no need for mass foreign immigration because workers would be paid adequate wages where the local domestic population exists in a form of self sustenance. Once again neoconservatives are just poorly wrong on these economic and political subjects regarding immigration or the negative consequences of it, they’re always inventing Marxist boogeyman where there are none. There are only capitalists in their usual profit seeking schemes who actually look at anti immigration sentiment as being bad for business and capital profit generation. Neoconservatives essentially are wed to capitalists who then stab them in the back repetitively on almost everything.
Go ahead, I’m all ears.
I don’t know if this was meant as the first argument or not.
The reason for it, though, is that it’s essencially an emergency force cobbled together to do actual enforcing. The structural bodies that are supposed to do it face numerous socialist points of authority along the chain of command, and consequently simpy do not do it. ICE was designed as a force that does not answer to socialist resistance in the normal structure. It answers only to the executive office, and is constituted with a legal framework of authority and action. If you had two decades and a political body that wasn’t permeated with basically traitors, you could probably do something more formally advanced. As it is, it was the only way to do it, and it has proven very effective.
By “the only way to do it,” by the way, I mean the only way to enforce actual existing law.
Again, I’m not saying it’s a good thing. I think a lot of people involved had good intentions, but what the main intention was I am suspicious of. I am suspicious of any centralizations of power. The more degrees of separation between a citizen and the people who decide the fate of that citizen, the more skeptical I am. I see the EU (and the coming American Union) as steps toward one world government, which I doubt would end up being a good thing. For any huge changes you have many people who buy the narrative or see the narrative in a positive way or see only the positive aspects. Using this people can drive through things that are not good. The conspiracy gets ruled out because so many people are involved, but there are so many ways to manipulate people, get them to focus on only certain things, frame things in a certain light, etc., that you don’t need lots of people to be in on whatever your small group wants. Small power group with media control.
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I’ve noticed that more of the right is starting to understand the problem with ICE. The main problem there is they are a heavily armed law enforcement that does not need judicial warrants to enter people’s homes and arrest people. Yes, they are focused on illegal aliens. But these kinds of organizations tend to expand and they don’t end when their supposed area of focus gets solved. They could easily be given other tasks and they are setting precedents that should set everyone on the left and right’s teeth on edge.
The powers that be frame things to get at least one of the supposedly only two sides to support them. That’s all they need. Then the two supposedly only two sides hate and lash out at each other at least as much as the government or more. And the government has, via this, normalized whatever they are doing. It’s on the political spectrum even if many people are extremely against it. ICE is another step in the direction the Patriot Act shifted the US.
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No. I am asking: What is wrong with ICE in principle?
Because its now asked as a question of support and agreement. Why would someone disagree with the concept of immigration and customs enforcement, or to put it simply: That you have a border and that mofos shouldnt cross it like your laws and nation was some optional footnote on a piece of toilet paper.
This once again one of those topics where i have never in my life have received any coherent, rational, logical or justifiable response other than “i feel, emotions emotions, very upset, big mad”.
I dont really know about whether or not this was the only way to do it, but it is most certainly a functioning way to do it.
You take those who broke the law, who illegally crossed the border, and you place them right back on the other side of it. ICE does that, so ICE is technically doing what its supposed to do.
Now there might be a lot of questions in regards of how they do it and how prepared they are considering all the bat shit insane people who want to push back against them to the point of attempting suicide by cop (or ice), but the tl;dr is the same: Its an office to maintain a specific law that has been degraded into optionality at this stage, which is especially problematic when one side of the political aisles has decided that their voterbase from here on out is going to be imported “whoever the f wants to come we gonna ship them in en mass, the more the better”.
You mean like NGOs, professional activists and feminism?
Ohohoho how i can see your point there if nothing else lol.
Fine, thats a good point. Whatever power the government grabs, will never let go of it ever again. Thats fair criticism.
Yet its a bit of a strawman cause it refers to a systemic issue/stereotype rather than ICE itself.
Or is your point entirely that you take no issue with customs enforcement, you are just worried about powers granted to the government?
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And this would be entirely correct, except maybe for the fact that its not even america in control at this stage.
Its simply globalism, or it’d be rather accurate to say Davos/WEF, or to be even more accurate: A handful of completely sociopathic hell spawns with billions at their disposal who are interested only in one single thing and that is LINE GO UP.
Doesnt matter who needs to die, whether an entire continent needs to be kicked into ww3, whether billions might perish, LINE GO UP.
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No, but seriously, when was it?
Can you mention a single thing that ties the creation of the EU to the US? Any at all or is it another one of those nebulous ideas that sounds right?
Because, actually, it was adverserial to the US from the beginning.
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Well, the answer is that it’s because they want mass immigration, but they are not willing to achieve it via the democracy they are always tearing their garments about. They don’t want to do it by boring things like passing laws and designing infrastructure.
I mean it’s simple, very simple people. They want democracy, they want it now, but they only want if it does what they want.
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And, I mean, yeah, people who are opposed to its mission (which it accomplishes admirably): enforcing immigration law, are going to monger fear about it.
It’s the main socialist tool. Fear. Terrorize the people into submission.
Not so easy in a place like the USA.
People have the right to demand integrity of their borders. And they are manifesting that demand through Trump.
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Yes, there are abuses by I.C.E. where the entire organization needs to be reformed where it is supervised at a government level just like any other law enforcement agency.
Trigger happy individuals or people that are psychologically unhinged should not be officers servicing that organization.
Likewise entering people’s homes should definitely be off limits.
Also, in terms of deportation there should be a humanitarian angle where individuals are given a sum of money upon departure so at the very least when they go back to their nations of origin they’re at least not financially destitute. There’s no reason within any kind of law enforcement government agency basic compassion and dignity to people are lacking. There’s no need for any of that.
Still, in my opinion they’re getting ready to lock down this nation keeping people in from leaving gearing up for global war within some kind of national draft legislation which probably explains the bridge between I.C.E. and Homeland Security more recently. As usual the individuals that control this government are simply out of control.
Like the FBI? the CIA? The DA?
Very nice. I see we have a Clinton admirer in our ranks. The communist of course.
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Actually under my ideal form of government immigration would be highly restricted. There wouldn’t be the kind of global mass foreign immigration we have now.
All I am saying is that in any kind of law enforcement agency like I.C.E. there shouldn’t be any kinds of abuses towards people.
Entire protocols and procedures should be revised.
I doubt it, as even ICE is a little too restrictive for you.
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Your problem is that you think all socialists, communists, and Marxists are the same in political economic ideology, in reality we’re not all the same. There are a lot of nuanced differences.
As an orthodox Marxist and communist myself the neo-Marxists that neconservatives constantly complain about I don’t like either. For me they’re a disgrace and constant embarrassment.
Under orthodox Marxist and communist thought we refer to those neo-Marxists as bourgeois well poisoners or controlled opposition. The crazy radical feminists, college professors, race war enthusiasts, and the usual schizophrenics you find in the academic institutional setting are all well poisoning neo-Marxists. They’re philosophically the worst examples of Marxism overall.
In a sense I see these problems as details. In addition to the militarization, over decades, of other law enforcement agencies and their increased powers under the Patriot act and other changes, we now have yet another huge expansion in a law enforcement agency. More government reps with guns on the streets. Its funding hovered around 10 billion for a long time. Now it is up around 85 billion. 8x the budget it had. It has battlefield type weapons and military vehicles now. Drone surveillance with specialized facial recogniztion AIs and, get this Urban Warfare training. Let that melt in the mouth for a while. They’ve built mock cities and sniper training modules.
Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 keeps the government from using the military for law enforcement duties. Well, fuck that, they say, if you can’t use the military then increase local and federal law enforcement to full on military organizations. And let’s ride on the anti-immigrant sentiments and radically enhance yet another organization to military levels. While at least one of the two supposedly only two political groups supports this, we can put even more military weapons, vehicles, drones and other surveillance onto the streets. And hey, let’s train this newly enhanced law enforcement group in urban warfare and send a bunch of them to sniper school.
That’s one way around Posse Comitatus.
Yes, they have been out of control and there are bad apples. But the problem is not the common bad apple theory of the universe. The problem is another army is now present domestically. And even if you like what they are doing now, you should be worried about their presence and how they can be used.
You can look at the world on party lines and believe what you are told things are ‘for’. Or you can look at what is happening. Who has more power and more money and what might they want that for?
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I agree, overall these militarized law enforcement agencies could easily be turned against the national public itself or against domestic citizens. It’s very possible concerning the tyrannical and outrageous oligarchy that has taken over our nation here.
They’re trying to cement their power and hold us all captive it would seem.
Entropy and the collapse of entire systems, organizations, nations, civilizations, or societies is very possible. I would argue that it is happening right now and is indeed inevitable.
However, I believe we should embrace the mindset that when such things occurs we should want to bring people together because under such circumstances people will only survive by working together in cooperation. The goal should be to bring revolutionary change against those who recklessly destroy society for their own selfish enrichment.
The reason for war against Russia is the same as the military provocations against Venezuela and Iran, raw natural resources.
Why buy Russian natural gas or oil when you can try to supplant the Russia government itself installing an E.U. puppet inside of Moscow essentially getting both for free and with a big discount?
All of these wars are being set up quite intentionally with the United States and Israel leading the charge.