That’s what I love about living on the west coast of Canada. I can have the floor to myself while everyone else is sleeping. The only problem is that when you people wake up you might change the subject.
I wish to first address Bessy’s
Since others have exposed themselves I should tell you the complete context of my views is my poem, the result of studying life for 40 years . A much smaller context is my post “Life: a reaction to the void”, but I will do my best without them.
The way I see things, being an expert in any field is just a variation of our preeminence reaction to the void. In other words we erroneously believe being better than someone else gives us a sense of meaning in our lives. Like love, religious/philosophical answers, materialistic posessions and the remaining 4 ways we try to fill the void, we think being right will help fill the void in our lives. It doesn’t though. The penultimate consequence of the need to be right is in some measure, destruction of another. Since we need each other to survive the ultimate consequence of being right is self-destruction.
However, I didn’t want to address being an expert directly. I want to add to the discussion of wisdom. I believe the ultimate consequence of our activity is a fabric of existence located somewhere on a continuum between self-realization and self-destruction, depending on the ratio of natural to unnatural activity we choose to weave. The most immediate consequence of the mental portion of our activity is mental knowledge. The knowledge we acquire from natural activity expands our realized capacities allowing us to reach out to acquire more knowledge. The knowledge we acquire through unnatural activity results in diminished capacities and self-destruction. If it were up to me I would define wisdom as simply knowing the difference.
In my opinion we are collectively more foolish than wise. I don’t know about you people but I don’t want to play unless we all win; and we all lose if we need to be experts.
Now this is wise. With anything, the more you study the more you become aware, but I was under the impression that the Tao was more like a roadmap for your OWN existence/experience and so you will see and experience it like no other person. Your experiences are like no other’s so you can’t compare or contrast, right?. Since there is no comparison, there can’t possibly be a right or a wrong. Again, this was MY interpretation.
But the more I read and hear what Mas and Angel say the more I think I was wrong. Religion has creed/beliefs that you follow. All the people in the faith follow the same creed to thrive here on earth and for the ultimate goal of reaching heaven/whatever. What I liked about the Tao is that it didn’t seem like that - but more of a guide to find your OWN path.
In my 17 steps so far, that was my take, but now I think there does seem to be a certainty or “knowing” to it, which takes it right back into sounding like a religion. It seems as though every step I take toward understanding it, I hit walls and am contradicted in some way. The “expert” nature of it permeates every discussion at ILP like an elephant in the room.
I don’t have time to go back and dig up quotes, but I see it time and time again. Oh well. I am beating the same dead “knowing” horse and it probably feels like it is getting old.
Sorry.
Bessy, I would really like to talk to you about your post. I have read it probably 10 times. It is filled with insight ; but I think I could read it 100 times and still not understand
Hmmmm, Tao as a competitive sport with points and all? Starting positions and the rest? A bit much for me. Way is celebrating and having serious fun - I think. Of course, I’m no expert…
[i]Cottleston, Cottleston, Cottleston Pie,
A fly can’t bird, but a bird can fly.
Ask me a riddle and I reply:
“Cottleston, Cottleston, Cottleston Pie.”
Cottleston, Cottleston, Cottleston Pie,
A fish can’t whistle and neither can I.
Ask me a riddle and I reply:
“Cottleston, Cottleston, Cottleston Pie.”
Cottleston, Cottleston, Cottleston Pie,
Why does a chicken, I don’t know why.
Ask me a riddle and I reply:
“Cottleston, Cottleston, Cottleston Pie.”
Perhaps if everyone stopped trying to stuff square pegs into round holes, relating would follow in a natural heart/mind fashion. But that would be Way…
Ummm, I don’t suppose anyone has a bit of honey? Just a taste or so to get us through?
[i]The clouds above us join and separate,
The breeze in the courtyard leaves and returns.
Life is like that, so why not relax?
Who can stop us from celebrating?
I don’t think the ‘horse’ is dead Sara. If it was dead we wouldn’t have to keep beating it. I would like to think it is dying but I’m afraid that is wishful thinking. I suspect we are not alone here. We might have at least one other person tentatively beating the horse with us but even a handful of us can not keep the rest of humanity from “trying to stuff square (religious/philosophical) pegs into (the)round (void)”.
Collectively we need to release our grip on the desperate conviction that if we just try harder to follow the directions it provides, or to learn more about it, our particular religious/philosophy will give us the sense of meaning we crave in our lives. We have to learn from our past and conclude that after thousands of years trying, the religious/philosophies with which we try to fill the void are as unable to do that now as they were at their beginnings. We must rediscover the only possible way we can experience that sense of meaning we all need is to return philosophically to our beginning, to our point of conception when all we knew was “to reach out to the limits of our capacities, to others and to God”.
Ummm, maybe its about limitations and knowing what they are and not trying to force ourselves past our limitations. We always change and learn, but always within the limits of our humaness. (or bearness)
Yes! My only limitation is an inability to know why and I don’t force myself past that limitation into a place of self-destruction; but by changing, learning, reaching out the limits of my capacities, to others and to God, I hope I am experiencing why in the realm of self-realization.
Is there any possibility that you ARE the reason why? Could it be that you are perfectly fine just the way you are (in your limitations) and it is only ego that demands to know everything?
A question borne out of curiosity: Is there really a void? There is that which is manifest, we see that. But is it possible that the void is really just potential manifest coming into being and returning?
The hundred acre wood sometimes seems barren, without much life, but then maybe a few drops of rain and all of a sudden there are flowers and grasses and butterflies. And so there wasn’t any void, things were just waiting for the rain which comes whenever it wants to. Then there are flowers and bees and honey… and it all works out.
