Devotion. What love is between individuals, devotion is between one individual and God. The death of the personality. Is it a way of merging into existence? Is there a way for us to drop our boundaries that divide us from existence. Is it a love affair with the eternal?
Isn’t it also possible to have this devotion between two people, or should I say is it possible? Would that even be a good thing? It makes me think of cults.
What do you mean by: “Is it a way of merging into existence? Is there a way for us to drop our boundaries that divide us from existence.” Define “existence” in terms of what you’re trying to say here.
Hi vortical
I have never been devoted to another human being except in an obsessive kind of way…that can’t be called devotion can it? 
I do think it is possible though, to have devotion between two people. Existence is all that exists. I’m wondering if religious devotion can bring about a kind of love affair with all that exists, in the same way that a love affair causes a union between two people.
A true and total union between two people would be, within it’s sphere, a love affair with all that exists.
Hi A,
You speak of death of personality. Perhaps it isn’t an issue of death but of transcending personality. I have difficulty visualizing total transcendence, although the eastern philosophies assure us that it is possible. There are those times, those rare moments when transcendence is experienced, but it seem’s to be a fleeting experience (at least for an insenisitive male - me).
I suspect that the difficulty lies in letting go of all to obtain all. To be one with all require’s a leap over a chasm much wider than most of us can contemplate although it’s certain that one or two humans in history succeeded.
The ‘love affair’ with existence? Seems to me that is a constant, although not in the all-consuming way you suggest. The less pre-occupied I am with the issues of life or death, the more enjoyable the affair. “The sage has no concerns for worldly affairs.” In this sense, the affair is constant even as you scrub the toilet. Yes? 
JT
we are one with existence… it’s all in letting go of trying to control ourselves and realize that we are but pawns in a game… we are not in control…
the guy who chooses is never in control…
we are the creative minds within the box… the art inside the painting… we are one with everything…
JT,
Yes, you have a good point. I remember watching a woman washing dishes one day. I asked her what she was thinking while she washed the dishes as she looked so peaceful. She said she was thinking about washing the dishes.
What does it mean to let go? And surely there can’t be anything to obtain since we already have it. So it must mean that we do not neccessarily let go of anything at all but rather we do not have an attachment to all things (things include thought, feelings etc.), but we contain within ourselves all things? Like for example; I have never looked into your eyes, but I know you exist, not because of your words but because of my own feelings…a question for myself to ponder I guess!
A
liquidangel wrote:
Hi A,
Yes, nothing changes but us. What you asked is not just releasing an attachment to things of the mind, but something much greater. It is a letting go of self. Releasing I/me. Even in those rare moments of transcendence I’ve managed to let go of me as the center, but I have never, not once, ceased to be aware of ‘me’. The Tao speaks of daily decreasing knowing until there is nothing left but the Way. A noble goal, and attainable but for a few. Remember when I said I was a poor practitioner? It’s quite possible that I simply haven’t enough mind to let mind go, but truthfully, it is equally possible that I simply haven’t the courage.
Do I exist? Of course I do! Just as you. And yes, we exist to each other through our intuitive understanding of the ‘universal essence’. We recognized it immediately in each other. Surprised? It happens now and then.
JT
Hi JT,
The personality changes when you say we change. True. Hence I say the personality dies. Or Transcends as you put it. The part of me that doesn’t change is the part of me that contains you within me, the connection is nothing more than me recognising me in you and you recognising you in me. I’m looking for a way of dropping the boundary of my own personality, what about the part of us that is the same as another that we don’t connect with? I’m looking for you in all the others and I’m looking for me there too, in the wind, in the rain, and there are moments…and then it is gone and the scene changes and the leaves rustle in the trees and another thought enters my mind…
No I’m not surprised. I’m delighted. I’m contemplating Tao. There are a million things to do in my life as I’m sure in everyone’s but cultivating Tao, for me is the only real thing…the only thing that is my very being - and so from that perspective there is nothing else to do. I guess I’m already devoted.
Hi A,
Chew on this for a little while.
"One with wholeness of virtue
has an unconditioned mind.
He regards the mind of all being
as his own mind.
He is kind to the kind.
He is kind to the unkind,
for the subtle nature of the universe is kind.
He is faithful to the faithful.
He is also faithful to the unfaithful,
for the integral virtue of the universe is undeceiving.
In the midst of the world,
he dissolves all minds into harmonious Oneness.
All people strain their eyes and ears for excitement.
One of deep virtue brings all people back
to their childlike-heartedness."
[I’m looking for a way of dropping the boundary of my own personality, what about the part of us that is the same as another that we don’t connect with? I’m looking for you in all the others and I’m looking for me there too, in the wind, in the rain, and there are moments…and then it is gone and the scene changes and the leaves rustle in the trees and another thought enters my mind…]
Have you considered that there may be no boundary? Are you looking for a gate in a non-existent fence? I’ve managed to see the fence as a blurry outline, but, I too have never managed to make it disappear. The connectedness is there. We have to arrive at that place where all is all without differentiation, in perfect harmony. Nothing has changed but us.
I don’t mean to be obscure, I just can’t find the words…
JT
I know…
Wanting nothing,
With all your heart stop the stream
When the world dissolves,
Everything becomes clear.
Go beyond this way or that way,
To the farther shore
Where the world dissolves
And everything becomes clear.
Beyond this shore and the farther shore,
Beyond the beyond,
Where there is no beginning, no end,
Without fear, go.
- Buddha in the Dhammapada
Hi A,
Thank you. I needed that. It isn’t lost on me that the Buddha knew that we would be fearful of going…
JT
JT,
It’s my pleasure, but…um…you inspired the thought so…I guess it is I who should thank you.
A