Did god make man, or did man make god?

Sometimes I think that religion first emerged because people had a need for religion. They have no answers to many of their questions, and so they would explain this by claiming that there is a supreme deity or deities that made things happen. People in general also want some sort of father figure in their life. I’m sure we all feel that we need to follow our father or mother’s footsteps at some point in our life. To make this god more convincing, maybe people added ethical morales and made them “the laws of god”. What are your thoughts?

A side note: I am not attacking any religion(s) specifically. I respect your beliefs but this is just my opinion of why religions exist.

The answer to your question is the latter. Confer with Nietzsche for details.

I think it’s funny how people cite an insane man as a resource.

If man came before God…where did man come from?.. the big bang right…so where did the big bang come from??..

The religious God is a father figure I agree, but God is not an imaginary figure…God is not a father, or any other earthly understanding…The creator is what made man, whether you call God the big bang or metamorphosis., creation…magic!..Man was created because of Something that just Is!.. God just IS!!..the invisible nature of life is God…religion misunderstands this because they all think that they’re right…I may be wrong…but I found out that I can see the invisiblity which is God everytime I write, speak, love, or anything else in this life…:slight_smile:

I find it amusing how you base the credibility of a person on their mental status.

I sense that everything that exists in this world has a reason. We are not merely here to procreate but rather our procreation serves for us to understand and realise the deeper function of our relationships with our parents, our siblings, our children etc. These relationships actually help us to know God. There are five kinds of relationships:

Master/disciple
Parent/child
Husband/wife
Brother/sister
Friend

Within all of the above relationships there is a ‘right’ way. By right I mean - according to nature. Everything in nature follows a principle. We’ll call that principle truth. So there is a true way to conduct a relationship. If I am a child then how can I best fulfill my role as child? My parents gave life to me - in the physical sense - my Father/Mother in Heaven gave life to my soul. There is a direct correlation. My parents love me unconditionally allowing me to live my life, support my growth, forgive my transgressions, guide me to the best of their ability - in turn I respect them, love them and do as they wish (in the simplest terms as nothing is black and white) - but I learn filial piety to God through my filial peity to my parents.

I feel that perhaps these natural laws governed our relationships in the past - and that perhaps religion was born out of the intellectualising of these laws. Inherently we know what is right from wrong, inherently we know that we love our parents and want to do right by them - yet as time passed and mankind became more and more lost - deviated from the truth or from the principals of nature - we tried to return to them by following a set of precepts that were possibly taught by the actions and words of various Saints and Sages. For example, Jesus Christ who taught love and compassion and was most filial to his Father in Heaven yet was according to the books, filial to his earthly mother and father too - although having had placed more importance on his spiritual relationship with God, taking into account not only his blood brothers but his spiritual brothers and sisters as well - his very life an example of the natural laws which we call the truth.

I think that perhaps the term ‘ethical morals’ only exists because we tried to understand and follow intellectually what can only be understood with the heart. Heart = Soul as the centre of all things. Love is the manifestation of the heart - the most natural thing in the world. But in a way, ethical morals are the laws of God which are infact not laws at all as they are the natural inherent abilities of mankind which is what the effort of religion is - To return to God.

Interesting that the laws of men are derived from the laws of god.

It’d be interesting to examine some of these laws.

As you indicate these laws of god are moral laws.

Let us give some examples of the law of god in action.

Karma springs immediately to mind: you do something horrible to others and in gods eyes you become a mean spirited person.

You steal some money and in god’s eyes you become a thief and that is your punishment.

You help your elderly neighbour across the busy road. God rewards you and sees you as a kind neighbour.

Notice how god’s law is immediate! He doesn’t weigh things in the balance and argue the case this way and that, he acts in perfect unison with you.

You do wrong and you are punished straightaway; you do right and you are rewarded straightaway.

Thus virtue its own reward.

I think God was just a person who knew so much more then Jesus did, if we come up with questions questioning the all powerful.

Location: Bouvert Island - Cogito Ergo Sum

first we have to expand the question. did god create the universe and everything within it? or is it a random act of chaos?

let’s first examine our moon. it takes 28 days to orbit the earth, which happens to coincide with the menstrual period. the moon is on such an orbit that it happens to FREQUENTLY, eclipse the sun. think about the possibilities on this one, had the moon been smaller, different shaped (martian moons) on a different elliptical, where an eclipse of any kind happened in millenia instead of decades.

Then we have the magic number. 1.618 - 1 to 2 - 3 to 5 - 5 to 8.

so we have at least two unrandom non chaotic systems in place. Is it possible for something ordered to come out of chaos? That’s the real question.

chaos = order
chaos = random
man = order (magic number.)
nature = order (magic number, impossible odds)

so either somehow yet to be discovered chaos produces ordered systems, or god created order out of chaos.

so what does the universe without god give us?

No purpose. we are finite creatures who have a very short time on earth to get it right.

No meaning. There is only what we see and nothing more.

No morals. Without a god, there is no need for morals, because we decide what is the good for us selfishly instead of as a whole humanity.

[If man came before God…where did man come from?.. the big bang right…so where did the big bang come from??.. ]
Then where did god come from ??? It is the unexplainable mystery that plagues us all. Religion was created to explain things humanity feared: death, “evil”, etc., from modern religions to Greek and Roman Mythology. Apparently humanity finds it too difficult to accept that they don’t know without concocting a reason behind it. Everything doesn’t have to happen for a reason, there are coincidences (thus it is possible that something random came out of chaos. Also, the menstrual cycle is also found to be affected by other women in the home [ the cycles will synchronize]). Is there any physical proof that jesus is a savior?-the bible…Is there any physical proof that the bible is an exact account of events? or perhaps just a madman/philosopher’s storybook. (sorry, i don’t really know about other religions, and christianity/catholicism is extremley conflicting in my household.)The “ethics and morals” were what society felt about the world at that time. Society’s ethics and morals which were eventually passed down through parents and teachings. When people want something to go their way, they pray. Why can’t humanity accept that they have to deal with problems, and not just pass them on to someone/something else.
Perception is everything. Heaven/nirvana cannot exist because chaos is heaven, life itself is heaven. Boredom is hell(hence why would an omnipotent figure/s create humanity for no purpose, especially if he/she/they knew exactly what was going to happen. Like watching a mystery film for the nth time). And thus the point of existence is to enjoy it, not to learn (as we look to the future, we tend to forget the past) or be good so you can have a better existence (prove yourself in essence. Even if a god or multiple gods exist, praying for forgiveness from sin is foolish. We learn from mistakes, and accept the consequences of our actions (or should). I hope no one takes my theories to heart and is offended (and i am deeply saddened if you are) as I can’t prove anything i have just said, but neither can you. What i don’t understand is how god could punish you for not being “wise” enough to accept him/her/it even if you live your life according to the 10 commandments if only for yourself. Its like equating a murdurer to an atheist. Now which one would you rather be locked in a room with?Or that you have been “saved” by sacrificing time/energy/money from heaven (life).

Before going on, you have to justify this dilemma, that is, to say why this dilemma is the right one: either God or chance. It is too easily taken for granted by many philosophers.

It seems that a French biologist (Jean Rostand) said: killing chance does not resurrect God.

Pyromaniac wrote:

Even if God did create man, how did man know? He assumed it. Man thought up God, whether or not God created man or not.

Take myths for example. When people cannot explain etraordinary experiences, they use Gods, Goddesses or deities to help explain it and it becomes a myth because the general population or majority won’t accept it. Since there is no smoke without fire, so every myth must be true to some extent in my view.

I think that it goes both ways, God first created man and then because man found it difficult to prove the existence of God, so he created God, some human beings created Him as a figment of their imagination and some as an actual supreme power that exists but is difficult to explain. If God created us then logically we would create God too because it would be in our genes to create. So, God created man, but man also created God.

Well in response to Nietzche, did he ever try to establish logical theorems to prove his points?

How did he expect to fight off a proof like Res Extensa with mere literature? And Res Extensa was 200 years old at the time!

Here’s my belief.

Man made god. But a divine prescence inspired us to make him. This divine prescence was either a seperate entity, or and entity within ourselves echoing to be expressed. So man alone definetly is not responsible for god.

Maybe God was “written” into our civilization by an older, more advanced civilization. Check TLC’s “UFO’s and the Bible” for details.