Do you believe that you existed in some form before you were born? Or for those sticklers did you exist before you were conceived? Did your soul float in some heaven? Did you have previous incarnation, and are now reincarnated? Where did you come from before you were born? Was your essence resting under the earth? Did you fly down from heaven?
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) have a doctrine known as ‘Premortal life’, in which we as humans lived with our Heavenly Father and Mother before being assigned bodies on the earth.
I’m not a Mormon. Just an interesting note. I personally think the energies of our souls existed before we were born, but not the ‘I’ of your personality. Just the ego (per se) didn’t exist.
xander,
Your at it again. Pre-existence is not knowable. Neither is post-existence. There are plenty of ‘wouldn’t it be great’ myths, religions, and philosophical suppositions that give us the warm fuzzies. Somehow, I can’t just not be. The thought that whatever it is that “I am” could come from nothingness to being and then return to nothingness is just too cold. Give me some nice warm story that let’s me continue forever and ever.
Of course, it may be possible that we are simply a re-cycled collection of ‘old souls’ endlessly circulating, but since no one has reported back…
JT
So discussing existing religious beliefs is something to sneer at because the truths can't be verified, but making up a [i]new religion from scratch[/i] is some sort of honorable, intellectual enterprise, especially if you know it isn't true to begin with. What's up with the chip on your shoulder?
As far as my own beliefs in pre-existence, I haven't seen the reasons for supposing it yet. xanderman, do you think it makes some common theological or philosophical concept 'work' better if we existed before we were born, or were you just curious?
Come again? No sorry, mustn’t be flippant.
It seems to me that the only evidence we have for this, or at least reincarnation, is either the ‘Near Death Experience’ or hypnotic regression. I have met somebody who thinks they have experienced the former and I have tried, unsuccessfully, the latter. From my reading I feel the case is sufficiently sound for me to accept it. Many will doubtless disagree.
Maybe this world was here before? Maybe ‘i’ have been here before. Maybe you have been here before too. The Universe as it is today could have been here an infinite amount of previous times. Maybe i have asked these question on an infinite amount of occassions. Who knows?
Uccisore,
Would you like to explain what your talking about???
JT
In private, if I say anything else it will trash the tread and be be baiting undesirables.
No.
Since everything I am and everything I’ve learned to become ‘me’ has been absorbed through my 5 senses and into my fleshy brain, the idea of ‘me’ devoid of sensory input, experience and a medium on which to record and with to interpret said experiences (my brain) seems fairly ludicrous.
You have never once imagined anything you have never perceived? Gee. I wonder where the guy who invented the first bow and arrow got the idea from… cloud shapes?
Oh shit… Bows and Arrows are truly representations of vaginas and penises. Freud was right!
You have never once imagined anything you have never perceived?
Sure, plenty of times, but that has nothing to do with what I said. Besides, imagining is still a physical process that you need a brain to accomplish.
Before my physical self existed, I wasn’t imagining anything.
What you said was what sounds like this… All our knowledge is gained though strictly empirical means (i.e. the senses).
The bow and arrow thing… maybe it is based on a resemblance to a vagina and a penis… but before the guy who ever made the first one knew what he was doing, the inference must have existed in the recesses of the sub conscious. Thus, even if all knowledge comes via the empirical route, what we know is only what we are conscious of. So, if you aren’t conscious of a soul, that does not mean you don’t have unconscious knowledge of it, it only means you lack conscious knowledge of it. That is (I think) where I was going. Conscuiously anyways.
xanderman, do you think it makes some common theological or philosophical concept ‘work’ better if we existed before we were born, or were you just curious?
I credit (blame) my endless boundless, and sometimes useless curiosity.
I want to know what people believe. So far I see that only Dr. Satanical and aviemus have expressed that.
i don’t believe that anything that could be termed “me” existed before i was conceived. honestly both sides of the issue (i existed pre-birth/conception, i did not exist pre-birth/conception) could fit in with my generaly world view (belief in a soul, the earth as a sort of school/proving ground for that soul, existence of the soul after death of the body) but the whole reincarnation thing has never really resonated with me, and honestly probably gets a bad name in my book from all the fake psychics around (how do i know they are fake? well i am assuming that that many people couldn’t be Napolean, Cleopatra, or whatever other famous figure is popular at the moment)
of course this gets me into a bit of a conundrum when i try to figure out what this soul thing is. I generally think of it as some sort of piece of the divine, that which is behind the whole “created in His image” idea. However, if this is a piece of the divine, the divine certainly existed before i was conceived, and thus, perhaps, there is some piece of me which existed before what I consider to be me. But in some sort of fuzzy way I don’t really see that piece becoming me until it is a part of the rest of me…but where does that leave me? Perhaps to the bodily resurrection of Catholicism. [side note: is there any evidence for a “soul” going to heaven or hell? I know Jesus travels to both after death, but I believe he does this in his body. I think Paul talks about/implies a new spiritual body being formed, but honestly I am not quite sure]
xander, i spose my posts in more “questions i ask in regards to this question” rather than a full-fledged answer, but hopefully it will help assuage your curiousity a bit
Thank you Imaginary Man
Yes that quenches my thirst for knowledge quite nicely.
can any of us exist without consciousness? and are we conscious before we are born? maybe our soul does reside in heaven or somewhere before we’re born but i must admit, i’ve never heard that theory before.
of course, these questions bring about more questions upon themselves, (as philosophy will do), such as: if we did not exist before we were born, did the world exist either? we can’t prove it did because we weren’t here to experience it. we think we’ve heard that in the 60’s there was a hippie revolution and people spread a message of peace and love and then eventually went extinct for some reason in the 70’s. but if we weren’t there to see it with our own eyes then how can we know it happened? could it be that once we were born, or maybe while we grew during those 9 months before we were born, we invented our own reality to believe in? we were pre-programmed not with images of people and things, but the ability to create those images and recall them at a later date. we invented people, places, and names for all those things. and it’s all a mask that keeps us from seeing the real truth that the reality we call home does not exist. nothing does; from the stars in the sky at night to the point of this thread which you can’t remember anymore.
creation imperfect
I would take this even one step futher: How do we know that we are yet born?
We could be in the womb, dreaming of what our life will be like. All of this is our dream. I have always been amused by that idea. Only when we die in this dream we call reality, will we get born into the true reality.
In my honest opinion I believe none could have existed before conception, though a while ago I came up with the thought that perhaps before conception we were really living the lives subconsciously inside our parents, and then emerged into one as the sperm and egg joined together to create “us” in a physical form… not sure if that made sense but then again I’m running off of 2 hours of sleep…
Speaking with logical backbones-
Thermal Law says that energy cannot be destroyed it can only be altered. So in essence, our essence has always been around, it has just been altered a few times.