I’m not looking to argue here, I just want some clarification.
When they say “Jesus died for our sins” or “Jesus sacrificed himself to save us” or “his death washed away our sins” or whatever else pertains to that… what the hell does that mean?
If all my sins were washed away and forgiven by the death of Jesus, why am I labeled a sinner? If i have no more sins to worry about, why ask for forgiveness? Even if I don’t sin, I still have to worry about the “original sin” right? Was that one washed away too?
Or did he only die for the sins of the people that were around him at the time?
Seems to me that the situation would be pretty cut and dry. He died, and thus all sins are forgiven. Any sins committed after that are in need of forgiveness.
But I hear all too often that no matter how much prayer is done, nothing can wash away the sins of Adam and Eve; the “original sinners”. Neither I nor you had any freakin part in that act. Are we still full of sin from that? Or did Jesus take care of it?
And what exactly is the thought process for sacrificing someone for the sins of the world? “Oh jeez my people are sinful! Looks like i’m gonna have to punish them all” “Wait dad! I’ll die for them, they know not what they do!” “Really son? you asked for it. you die, now everyone is forgiven. Whew! thats a load off.”
raven leans forward and sticks neck on chopping block.
Ok well I go out on the limb a little here.
Jesus to me was a holy man. His sacrifice was for his people. He lived a hard life for them and gave all he could as a teacher and healer. His blood was for them. Did his body rise? I believe his spirit did to cross over and make his journey to the other side.
Is or was he the son of God? If one believes we are all the children of God. And from what I remember I dont remember reading he said he was the messiah…others did.
But in any political or religious following he became to powerful with people who believed. So the political leaders of that time destroyed him.
Adam and Eve…well the Bible to me has many wonderful stories and lessons in it for mankind. As far as truth… the church and man have changed it too many times.
You look at the scrolls of Thomas. These were not allowed because they talked of Jesus as a ‘man’. They also said that buildings are not where God is, but under every rock and stone. Now how would the churches allow that? They couldnt. They would then loose control over the people.
Having asked many questions like this of Christian friends, I can tell you what they would say. They would say that one still has to ask for forgiveness to receive it - it isn’t handed down to you at birth.
It’s like a new piece of technology. Once it’s deployed into society, people then have more capacity to do what they could never do before, but it’s not going to do the job on its own. People still have to use it and handle it properly.
I’ll let one of the Christians correct me here, but it is my understanding that in the Scapegoat ritual, one has to partake in order for it to be meaningful. Otherwise it would just be some dude from the House of Levi slaughtering and eating a goat, right?
Since Jesus was supposed to be the ultimate scapegoat (God’s only begotten son) it makes sense that the ritual still only applies to those that have partaken in it.
You are supposed to ask and really truly very soul and heartfelt ,accept his sacrifice. This process can be repeated as many times as needed or only once before you die, just before you die so that you don’t risk screwing up again. In other words go out be sinful for as long as possible then ask for and accept redemption when needed. I just love that prescription. Even religions have their loopholes.
Now if you just go through the motions, forget it, you get sent to Satan’s kingdom. Which, that part makes the least amount of any kind of sense in that religion. Hell just does not follow. Satan being evil does not make sense. But, it sounds good on paper.
Varying Christian faiths have varying views. I was raised to believe that you can only repent for your sins by having faith in Jesus and living his gospel. The church I was raised in didn’t really dig the “original sin” thing.
Ahh but, see there is no time limitation on having faith and living Jesus’s gospel, it’s a lovely little loophole. You are given no time frame, if there was a time frame people couldn’t convert. It only specifies that you must truly have it in your soul and fully accept and live it, for it to work. You can do it for 3 minutes before you die and you are still in as long as you are truly believing and living the teachings. It really is a very interesting way to do it and logical too if you think about it.
My guess is that, if the Christian God is real, he isn’t an idiot. There is a difference between the murderer next to Jesus accepting his divinity and getting into Heaven as opposed to someone who has known (indeed, believed) in the divinity of God but waited until the last moment to announce that.
But I could be wrong. I do think that most Protestants, who have a general distaste for ritual, would reject the deathbed conversion. Indeed, I think pretty much everybody would except for those who mistake the rituals found in Catholicism for the acts-themselves.
That is always the tricky thing about rituals – they help demonstrate the meaning of an act but all-to-often people confuse that demonstration for the act-itself.
You see, this is where the Judgment Seat of God comes in.
Our omniscient Lord in Heaven will judge our lives, and everything in them, including our thoughts. If someone thought he could “sneak” into heaven by denying the gospel until the last minute, God would know of this, since He’s been monitoring his thoughts, and put that into account for his qualification as a resident of either heaven or hell.
You don’t deny it you just don’t live it. Once you fully believe and hold it in your heart and soul you are in. Time is irrelevent , your past is irrelevent, it is the final judgement of yourself that truly counts. You judge yourself before any God does.