Disobedience

Xunzian · June 13, 2009, 3:14am

Retreatism only makes sense if it leads to an alternative system
Productivity is narratively driven, so it can only be defined relative to that particular narrative. Or to others if you want to impose them on that system, though doing so involves one being trapped within a single perspective.

xzc · June 13, 2009, 2:19pm

Conformity - A person accepts/internalizes the societal goals, meaning that they genuinely want what society wants them to want, and they also internalize the means provided by society to acquire such goals. This is most everybody in a society. Life has been good to these people so they go with the flow. Nice people, but a bit boring.

Ritualism - Such a person does not internalize the goals, but they accept the means. They go through the motions, but even when they succeed via the means provided for them, they feel unfulfilled. These are the people made fun of in Office Space, and in Fight Club. Cubicle workers.

"My father never went to college so it was really important I go to college. After college, I called him long distance and said, now what?
My dad didn’t know, so he said get a job.
When I got a job and turned twenty-five, long distance, I said, now what? My dad didn’t know, so he said, get married.
I’m a thirty-year-old boy, and I’m wondering if another woman is really the answer I need.

Innovation - Societal goals are accepted, but the means provided are rejected and new (let’s just say extralegal) means are created. These are the criminals in a society. The criminal wants the same thing as the conformist (house, white picket fence, kids, boat, etc), but either because they aren’t able to go about getting these things through the means provided by society, or because they don’t want to, they resort to new ways of getting them. The prostitute, the gang-member, the mob don, the Madoff, etc.

Retreatism - Accepts neither the means nor the goals of society. Wants it to be known that it’s because they are unwilling of living up to conformity, but it’s really because they are incapable. Usually the most likely to commit suicide. Equivalent to a state of being Nietzsche was trying to avoid after the death of God - nihilism. Not to be confused with teenage angst ridden emo fags. These people are old enough, and failures enough, that they stop wanting the biscuit and the dance they have to do to get it.

Rebellion - The rebel creates new goals for himself, and new means for acquiring them. He is a societal trend-setter. Tyler Durden. Sub-cultures. New conformity. His name is Robert Paulson. His name is Robert Paulson.

SavageBeast · June 13, 2009, 8:38pm

Can you?

Alright. Usually it does through that of rebellion by using your neatly packaged image illustration.

Alright. I guess the aim of this thread is my goal to illustrate the necessity of disobedience and rebellion if not their inevitability in the face of narrowly defined narratives of productivity that revolve around either hypocrisy or double standards not to mention that any system of power can only exist off a group being disenfranchised which makes disobedience with rebellion all the more eternal in human behavior from the eyes of those who are being disenfranchised as a way of existing.

XZC-

Conformity - A person accepts/internalizes the societal goals, meaning that they genuinely want what society wants them to want, and they also internalize the means provided by society to acquire such goals. This is most everybody in a society. Life has been good to these people so they go with the flow. Nice people, but a bit boring.

Ritualism - Such a person does not internalize the goals, but they accept the means. They go through the motions, but even when they succeed via the means provided for them, they feel unfulfilled. These are the people made fun of in Office Space, and in Fight Club. Cubicle workers.

"My father never went to college so it was really important I go to college. After college, I called him long distance and said, now what?
My dad didn’t know, so he said get a job.
When I got a job and turned twenty-five, long distance, I said, now what? My dad didn’t know, so he said, get married.
I’m a thirty-year-old boy, and I’m wondering if another woman is really the answer I need.

Innovation - Societal goals are accepted, but the means provided are rejected and new (let’s just say extralegal) means are created. These are the criminals in a society. The criminal wants the same thing as the conformist (house, white picket fence, kids, boat, etc), but either because they aren’t able to go about getting these things through the means provided by society, or because they don’t want to, they resort to new ways of getting them. The prostitute, the gang-member, the mob don, the Madoff, etc.

Retreatism - Accepts neither the means nor the goals of society. Wants it to be known that it’s because they are unwilling of living up to conformity, but it’s really because they are incapable. Usually the most likely to commit suicide. Equivalent to a state of being Nietzsche was trying to avoid after the death of God - nihilism. Not to be confused with teenage angst ridden emo fags. These people are old enough, and failures enough, that they stop wanting the biscuit and the dance they have to do to get it.

Rebellion - The rebel creates new goals for himself, and new means for acquiring them. He is a societal trend-setter. Tyler Durden. Sub-cultures. New conformity. His name is Robert Paulson. His name is Robert Paulson.

Awsome post.