A god who cannot be both universal and personal is in no way different from the average human being and does not deserve worship and awe.
Just some of the causes of war: competition caused by capitalism, greed, nationalism, and every form of fanaticism; but I’d agree that the biggest cause of the most wars is religion, it sets people against eachother and worsens our inherent cultural divisions; but one organised religion is not the answer either, it’s still a form of oppression against the intellectuals and scientists.
Exactly, good thing God is.
You’re an idiot. I feel I don’t really need to explain why, maybe you should think about what you just said before I tear you apart here.
Agreed!
yawn
If there were no god, to divide mankind, we would be fighting over what to call ourselves, or what type of attire to wear.
Ho hum.
Why would we do that?
So what religion were the Khans who at the height of their empire held more territory than the Muslims and roman empires could even dream of?
Speaking of the romans, most of them didn’t hold a UNIFIED religion. There were diasporic jews in the roman army. Capitalism does not create greed or nationalism.
The biggest cause of war is imperialistic doctrine. The roman empire, England before the last two decades, etc. You know at one point, England was in charge of India and Hong Kong, etc? Do you think that was driven by capitalism? It was driven by imperialism… to have more land and people under the british flag.
Imperialism is not built into every religion. Christianity for example. There’s no imperialistic doctrine that every christian must get sword and shield and expand the christian empire.
There is however such a doctrine within the muslim books. And there has been a resurgence of fundamentalist groups like Al Qaeda that view these imperialistic doctrines as the word of god.
Need more proof? When Japan went all imperialistic over Asia during the 30’s and 40’s most of the Japanese citizens were buddhist… but so were the chinese citizens they were capturing. The difference? The warrior history of the japanese going back to the days of the samurai’s and feudal warfare.
Same thing with Hitler… He wasn’t religious… Stalin, Pol Pot, etc. They dispatched millions of souls without god. If anything, LACK of religion within the last century lead to more deaths than any religious undertaking has ever done.
The difference today is that the imperialists we are facing are religious and believe in god just like moderate muslims and christians around the world. But don’t for a minute think that makes them the same. The majority of christians would be more likely to picket something then to strap bombs to themselves and undo themselves in front of a crowded marketplace. How many christian suicide bombers have YOU heard of? What about buddhist (not the japanese fighters that was from their feudal roots.) jainist, hindu, etc?
doctrine makes all the difference in the world, and the only way it can make a difference is if you ADMIT that not all ideas are equal. The christian ideal of god (even the nutjob phelps) is not the same as the jihadist ideal of god.
Ahahahahahaha. Ahahahaha. Ahahaha.
delete
delete
Ok I’ve gotten at least 2 private messages on my horrible conduct here, warned of being banned, etc. Unlike maybe some of you, I don’t say such things out of anger, that really would be stupid, I’m trying to point out his stubborness, and if not stubborness than ignorance, idiot is just more blunt, sorry. I’m expressing how james is being, not who he really is(I hope), banning me for this is also foolish, especially on a philosophy site. And I can even prove to james, from his beliefs, why it’s morally correct on your terms to say such a thing, as long as I’m right here, it’s morally ok(remember I’m still atheist this week, everything i’ve debated on I’ve done as an atheist) if I’m correct, which I am.
“I’d agree that the biggest cause of the most wars is religion, it sets people against eachother and worsens our inherent cultural divisions; but one organised religion is not the answer either, it’s still a form of oppression against the intellectuals and scientists.”
For one james should have defined what he means by religion. If he is including what people make religions, which he better well include to make such a point, then yes I can agree, atheism as religion is a big cause of war.
And I don’t see why religion should ever, ever, be a form of oppression against the intellectuals and scientists, that’s calling religionist idiots is it not??? These are words from someone who has not done enough studying. So either he lies stubbornly(which should give me good reason to call him an idiot), or he really is … unschooled(can’t think of a better word, but don’t want to make it sound too strong)… to such a subject.
I just wish more people would think more critically before they write on here, I find it a big waste of time talking to people with closed minds, this should be pointed out, and these people should just be ignored. Someone wants to call me an idiot for making claims with the lack of information or stubborness, I will find it no offense, they just better have a good answer, which I think I’ve provided.
For the record, and this goes for the admins to. If someone says things like “F*&% you!” This is something that should be warned and banned over. If Someone says I’m an idiot, and I’m being one, I really don’t see why thats wrong, it’s just blunt. It’s not an attack, it’s just a perception of a person, and if you think they’re wrong enough to tell them they shouldn’t have wrote it, well obviously you’re calling them an idiot for assuming they’re making stupid nonsensical remarks. IF the gay guy is really gay, calling him like so is not wrong is it? I think you get the picture here.
Thank you. I didn’t want to write all that, but I still had to write a bit anyway… lol
The Truth about the fact being that the manifestation of earthly pleasures and good attributed to be this illusory heaven and the more powerful being which the earthly beings find solace and security is in itself a manifestation of stupidity
perhaps I should stop looking at the religious sections here, each time I do I find myself drawn to another pointless conflict, It may be my own fault but still it seems useless to dibate such things regarding set beliefs.
On the topic at hand, to say that wost are caused by religion would discount WW2, since all of europe was chrisian, and they each beleived that god was on their side.
If you need to dibate the causes of war simply look at the causes for fights between men, the same causes apply they are just on a much larger scale, to try and prevent war would be to either change or appease the nature of huanity, and I do not see this happening.
“As long as manking exsists there will allways be battles” GW endless waltz
Oh club, where to begin…
Per usual, when one can’t come up with a logical or valid argument, time to pull out the ad hominems…debate the logic, not the person.
You insulted an honest poster’s intelligence without giving any reason, I’m not sure why you would feel this is somehow an exclusion to the ad hom attack policy…
There is a difference between sexual preference and intelligent levels, but I know you already can see the stark difference. Homosexuality isn’t subjective.
You call Ierrellus a liar, and a stubborn one at that, with once again not an actual logical rebuttle, reason, or fact to back your claims.
I will soon make a post regarding the fascinating reaction by both the religious and philosophical community’s recoil to Darwinism and atheism in general. It’s fascinating that the natural defense mechanism is to then attack science. SCIENCE of all things. And to make a comparison that atheism is a religion? When was the last time you saw an atheistic church? What would be the point of standing around and talking about why God doesn’t exist?
Since when did atheists form rituals? Since when did atheists have a holy book, supposedly inspired by some divine being? How, in any way, is atheism a religion, unless one defines religion as having a specific belief, but that would envelop the entire world in one way or another. I believe in the laws of mathematics and probability. Is math the next big religion? Of course not. I don’t believe that cold weather actually causes colds. Do I smell a new religion consisting of those who, as a group, believe colds are virus induced? Of course not.
I am almost in shock and disbelief that “empiricism” and “science” are being labeled as new upcoming religions. Interesting how this didn’t happen until those who are stuck defending something for absolutely no logical reason are brought into question. Now that your ass is on the wall to explain why anybody should belief such tom-foolery, the “I’m rubber and your glue” argument takes hold.
“Well science is faith based too!”
“Well those who believe in science are just the same as those who believe in Christianity or any other religion!”
What? Excuse me? Do such arguments really make any sense, or hold any weight?
Is there any argument that could ever be constructed, no matter how logical, that could dissuade one from their religious beliefs? Of course not. To bring up Gould again, unbeatable belief systems are not science, they are dogma. Why even come to a philosophy forum if one is not in search of truth? And if one was searching for truth, what’s the point if one wouldn’t even allow themselves to see the truth if it smacked them across the face?
Think about it. If you are a muslim, or a Christian, or a Hindu, or any other faith-based religion, please tell me what argument, what fact, what evidence, what line of reasoning would ever cause you to abandon your beliefs? I don’t think you could, and there’s an excellent reason why: because such arguments don’t exist. It’s not because there aren’t arguments that are good enough, or logical enough, or reasonable enough, it’s just that they will never make more sense to you as an individual as the faith based belief system that you currently hold, which, might I add, you only hold most likely because of the culture you were raised in, not because there is any good reason to believe it.
Your belief came first. Your reasons for believing came second. Please tell me how science, then, is the same, because last time I checked, science finds facts and reasons first, THEN come the beliefs.
And what would cause me to shift my beliefs and become theist? Well, if Jesus came down and talked to me and my friends for a while, I’d start believing. If there was another virgin birth, I’d start believing. If me and several others witnessed a miracle that wasn’t performed by a magician, I’ll start believing. If the Bible was actually proven historically true, I’d start believing. The list goes on.
Please, share your list of what an atheist could do to convince the religious that God doesn’t exist? I assure you the list will be short, because atheists and science alike know that you cannot disprove something that is unfalsifiable.
What good will this post do? None. Those who are believers will once again brush it off as illogical for one reason or another, because what could be more logical than God? What could be more logical than an all powerful being that exists outside of the laws of nature, is completely undetectable, can only be felt by individuals from within, who lies outside the burden of proof, who doesn’t need any GOOD reasons to believe in him, but rather only requires that you be born in the right part of the world at the right time.
And for those who keep on saying Hitler and others killed millions because they were atheist, I can’t help but wonder the underlying reasons for wanting to believe this. Hitler and others have used natural selection and the theory of evolution as a reason to kill people. How does that, in any way, disprove natural selection or evolution? It is bad people using facts to support their crazy ass mixed up agendas, but it doesn’t reflect in any way on the truth of evolution or natural selection.
In any case, you should also know that their reasoning for using evolution and natural selection for doing such things was flawed. They gathered those with blonde hair and blue eyes, thinking that their offspring would turn out the same. This isn’t even close to how genetics actually works. The rich upper class used evolutionary theory to support slave ownership, but once again, their misunderstanding and misuse of evolutionary theory was behind their ill-intentioned agenda, but this in no way argues the validity of evolution, or atheism for that matter.
/end rant.
Actually I never called irrelleus an idiot, but I’ll get back to this post later.
Imperialism and nationalism are sides of the same coin, Britian’s industrial capitalism and her Empire was being threatened by Germany’s bid for ascendancy and domination in the same fields, that’s what caused the First World War, the most despicable war. It was inevitable and both countries were to blame, but Germany more so because she had been planning it for years, German fascism had been blossoming way before Hitler’s time, he just exploited the nationalistic tendencies that had been inherent in the country’s culture since the start of the First World War. Why America’s imperialism of economic sorts is caused by captalism is it not? Don’t you think capitalism causes war, don’t you think that poorer countries are going to become jealous and angry if 25% of the world’s population consumes 75% of the worlds’ natural resources?!!
Without Rome, Christianity as you know it, a religion which 24% of the world’s population claim to follow, would not exist. Rome’s very depiction of Jesus as a blonde haired blue eyed person, which the conservative Christian churches still support, has been proven to be a statement of fascism itself within that ancient context.
“There’s no imperialistic doctrine that every christian must get sword and shield and expand the christian empire”
The zues laughed at this comment because it’s as if you’re denying atrocities such as the Crusades or the Spanish Inquisition, the potential for dangerous fanaticism caused by Christianity, as with any other mainstream religion is undeniable; the fact that radical Muslims are still living in the dark ages is irrelevant.
Hitler, Stalin and Pol-Pot oppressed religion but they were also fanatics themselves, and as I said, every form of fanaticism causes wars, repression leads to rebellion obviously, what a ridiculous argument against athiesm.
In England, the Christian Church, capitalism, and the monarchy have worked side by side as a trinity for centuries to trigger the Imperialist wars and expansion you speak of. Who do you think made up the bulk of Europe’s armies? The poor did, and they were exploited into fighting for the God, the Priest and the King who literally made up a Heaven of their miseries, God was on their side of course. The Church condoned and maintained the social evils that defined this country’s barbaric and appalling history. The very Cathedrals of Britain were built by Anglo-Saxon slaves who were indoctrinated into thinking that it was ok for them to work their guts out for others (the priveliged Norman oppressors) or lose their lives for others in war. It was ok for them to live in a state of abject poverty, suffering and misery, because once they had toiled for those who were too cowardly to work or fight themselves, they would, after all, get into heaven as their reward. So as I say, every Cathedral in England which these loving, charitable and righteous Christians of a new-era are still more than willing to worship in, every Pyramid in Egypt of which most people would look at with awe and delight, are very symbols of the lowest exploitation and oppression. Religion has served an obvious purpose in the imperialist cause, the indoctrination of the poor made labour, industrial growth and recruitment for armies possible.
Say what you want, guess away, it’s words on a screen, you can’t even touch me, your post says alot about your personality since you’ve displayed your true colours in a single post, there’s no point calling me arrogant/ignorant when you come out with such irrational emotionally driven aggression.
Apologies for not having expanded upon the points, I suppose they were genralisations rather than proper arguments. In my view religion/thiesm is either organised (mainstream-Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Sikhism) or personal (which I’m fine with as it involves no indoctrination). I presume when you say some athiests are religious in their own way I think what you are talking about is Sectarian Religions (e.g. Communism) and like I said, every form of fanaticism can cause war.
Why is it that areas of the bible-belt of Republican America have banned Darwin’s theory of evolution from being taught to their children at school then? Why does the British prime minister have to be a member of the Protestant Church before he can become PM? Why do so many thiests refuse to have rational arguments with scientists and intellectuals? Why are people in America discriminated against, hated or even sacked from work because they don’t believe in God? I could go on and on about why organised religion restricts the education and cultural evolution of the human race in society. Guess away at who I am and what I’ve done, you can come to as many ridiculous assumptions about me as you like, keep trying to accentuate yourself by insulting me in front of others on this board, it’s not going to help you, no one’s impressed, stop deluding yourself into thinking you’ve constantly got one over me.
By the way, d0rkyd00d is a legend after having made that post =D>