Do we dream less as we get older?

iambiguous · June 19, 2021, 9:31pm

Again, all I can do here is to extrapolate from my past experiences with those that “I” construe to be objectivists. The irony here being that I do not believe that Maia is herself an objectivist. I have far more respect for her own understanding of the life that she lives than for all of the “Coalition of Truth” dittoheads that now pervade ILP.

And to the extent that you honestly believe that my own at times brutally grim assessment of an essentially meaningless and purposeless existence reflects the height of narcissism and self-esteem, well, that merely exposes just how little you grasp the “for all practical purposes” reality of moral nihilism. Of a fractured and fragmented “I” embodied in this:

Though, yeah, given my past experiences with those of your ilk I am still inclined to believe it is that which they are ever intent on distancing themselves from.

If only becasue I have to deal with the brutal consequences [on both sides of the grave] of still thinking like I do myself.

WendyDarling · June 19, 2021, 9:37pm

Biggie, himself, has “a condition?” Irony cannot get anymore iron.

iambiguous · June 19, 2021, 10:04pm

Like I said, flies.

Why “Joe”?

Well, that’s the last of them. From now on I have to make up the names myself.

WendyDarling · June 19, 2021, 10:19pm

More irony with a tinge of serendipity, that’s my middle name without the “e” so kindly leave that off during your rounds of ongoing insults.

felix_dakat · June 19, 2021, 10:23pm

iambiguous:

“Look, if they can’t even be honest with themselves as to why my posts so disturb them, then noting the OP here…”

felix daCurly:

There it is iambiguous’s standard accusation that he uses every time after he rejects the reasons people give for not wanting to talk to him. Notice the elevated self-esteem that pathological psychological defense is meant to give to him. It is his superior piercing and probing questions that people just can’t handle because they can’t handle the profound truths that this intellectual genius brings to the discussion. I predicted that this is what he would say only a few posts ago and now here it is. How could I predict it? It’s a persistent recurring pattern with this guy. In psychiatric parlance they call that a personality disorder.

Again, all I can do here is to extrapolate from my past experiences with those that “I” construe to be objectivists. The irony here being that I do not believe that Maia is herself an objectivist. I have far more respect for her own understanding of the life that she lives than for all of the “Coalition of Truth” dittoheads that now pervade ILP.

And to the extent that you honestly believe that my own at times brutally grim assessment of an essentially meaningless and purposeless existence reflects the height of narcissism and self-esteem, well, that merely exposes just how little you grasp the “for all practical purposes” reality of moral nihilism. Of a fractured and fragmented “I” embodied in this:

If I am always of the opinion that 1] my own values are rooted in dasein and 2] that there are no objective values “I” can reach, then every time I make one particular moral/political leap, I am admitting that I might have gone in the other direction…or that I might just as well have gone in the other direction. Then “I” begins to fracture and fragment to the point there is nothing able to actually keep it all together. At least not with respect to choosing sides morally and politically.

Though, yeah, given my past experiences with those of your ilk I am still inclined to believe it is that which they are ever intent on distancing themselves from.

If only becasue I have to deal with the brutal consequences [on both sides of the grave] of still thinking like I do myself.

That’s the iambiguous mantra of meaninglessness. You keep mumbling that to yourself over and over as you take yet another excursion around whatever circle of your personal hell you’re on.

Aventador · June 19, 2021, 10:31pm

Hey man, don’t hate me cause I spit the truth.

You fake Vietnam going scum collector.

I still have that $1000 for you.

Aventador · June 19, 2021, 10:33pm

And leave the girl alone you fat fucking creepy nerd.

Aventador · June 19, 2021, 11:09pm

Maia:

'Never Went To Vietnam':

Maia:

If you can think of any precise and specific questions about how I dream, or indeed about anything else to do with perceptions, then I’m more than happy to try and answer.

I don’t think of it as an exchange of questions and answers. In regard to dreaming, the gap between those sighted from birth and those blind from birth may well be too wide for that sort of thing.

Instead, from my frame of mind, it seems it can only come down to those sighted like me hearing as many different descriptions of the dreams experienced by those blind from birth as possible. Different people attempting to communicate their own dreams to the extent that it is possible given the only thing that is available to us here: a “world of words”.

Maia:

What I don’t want to do is keep going over the same old ground. Boring is the very last thing I want to be!

That you saw it this way does not mean that I saw it this way. That you were bored does not mean that I was bored.

But that’s how these things work for me given the manner in which I construe a “sense of self” here as the existential embodiment of dasein.

Therefore if I can sustain an exchange about dreams with others blind from birth, they might not become bored at all.

But, as I noted above, where to go [online] to find them?

I didn’t say I was bored. I said I was concerned about being boring. I am, however, very busy.

I’ve already described a number of my dreams for you, but I don’t remember taking part in any meaningful exchange about them.

So good luck with finding someone else to do what you want.

*Cue tantrum.

iambiguous · June 20, 2021, 12:26am

Strangely enough, I almost feel the need to apologize to Maia that dreck of this sort keeps popping up of late on a thread she created.

On the other hand [sigh] better theirs than mine?

iambiguous · June 20, 2021, 12:48am

What Dreams Are Like When You’re Blind
By Cari Romm
In New York magazine

Again, the truly profound [and, eventually, problematic] manner in which the biological and the experiential can be played out in so many different ways for so many different people. The part where some things seems applicable to all of us and the part where, however hard we attempt to communicate our own dream experiences, there are some barriers beyond which we cannot go. Here we can only come to an agreement about what the dreams seem to be telling us. I merely suggest in turn that we steer clear of those who claim to be experts in interpreting dreams when they have themselves have almost no real understanding of our own situation. You can be blind or sighted and have very similar dreams. Just experienced with a different set of senses. But they can never be experienced and understood in the same way.

So, is that something that you yourself can relate to? And what if a dream construed to be a nightmare by some is experienced by others as being anything but. Still, what I am doing now is prompting myself before I fall asleep to notice sensual cues that are not visual. I’m curious to see if that is something that can actually be enhanced.

Aventador · June 20, 2021, 12:51am

Yes, we are way less creepy than you are.

And less cringy too, holy fuck, some of the things you have written this girl.

felix_dakat · June 20, 2021, 4:05pm

iambiguous:

What Dreams Are Like When You’re Blind
By Cari Romm
In New York magazine

The congenitally blind people in the Sleep Medicine study also tended to have more nightmares, a finding that supports the idea that bad dreams are a sort of rehearsal for real-life threats. Children, who are generally more vulnerable than adults, also tend to have more frightening dreams. Similarly, it’s possible that the disadvantage posed by a lack of sight spurs the brain to prepare for disaster scenarios more than it otherwise would.

Again, the truly profound [and, eventually, problematic] manner in which the biological and the experiential can be played out in so many different ways for so many different people. The part where some things seems applicable to all of us and the part where, however hard we attempt to communicate our own dream experiences, there are some barriers beyond which we cannot go. Here we can only come to an agreement about what the dreams seem to be telling us. I merely suggest in turn that we steer clear of those who claim to be experts in interpreting dreams when they have themselves have almost no real understanding of our own situation. You can be blind or sighted and have very similar dreams. Just experienced with a different set of senses. But they can never be experienced and understood in the same way.

And for Edison, the most vivid nightmares, like his happier dreams, are primarily auditory. “I worked in radio for a long time, so I have the typical radio dream,” he says: “The record is ending, and I can’t get to it, and there’s dead air.”

So, is that something that you yourself can relate to? And what if a dream construed to be a nightmare by some is experienced by others as being anything but. Still, what I am doing now is prompting myself before I fall asleep to notice sensual cues that are not visual. I’m curious to see if that is something that can actually be enhanced.

That actually strikes me as an interesting experiment. I have been interested in hypnagogic phenomena for a while.

iambiguous · June 20, 2021, 6:43pm

felix dakat:

iambiguous:

What Dreams Are Like When You’re Blind
By Cari Romm
In New York magazine

The congenitally blind people in the Sleep Medicine study also tended to have more nightmares, a finding that supports the idea that bad dreams are a sort of rehearsal for real-life threats. Children, who are generally more vulnerable than adults, also tend to have more frightening dreams. Similarly, it’s possible that the disadvantage posed by a lack of sight spurs the brain to prepare for disaster scenarios more than it otherwise would.

Again, the truly profound [and, eventually, problematic] manner in which the biological and the experiential can be played out in so many different ways for so many different people. The part where some things seems applicable to all of us and the part where, however hard we attempt to communicate our own dream experiences, there are some barriers beyond which we cannot go. Here we can only come to an agreement about what the dreams seem to be telling us. I merely suggest in turn that we steer clear of those who claim to be experts in interpreting dreams when they have themselves have almost no real understanding of our own situation. You can be blind or sighted and have very similar dreams. Just experienced with a different set of senses. But they can never be experienced and understood in the same way.

And for Edison, the most vivid nightmares, like his happier dreams, are primarily auditory. “I worked in radio for a long time, so I have the typical radio dream,” he says: “The record is ending, and I can’t get to it, and there’s dead air.”

So, is that something that you yourself can relate to? And what if a dream construed to be a nightmare by some is experienced by others as being anything but. Still, what I am doing now is prompting myself before I fall asleep to notice sensual cues that are not visual. I’m curious to see if that is something that can actually be enhanced.

That actually strikes me as an interesting experiment. I have been interested in hypnagogic phenomena for a while.

Now here’s a quandary. Above you were accusing me of violating Maia’s boundaries by continuing the thread. And yet here you are continuing it yourself.

But that’s how our reactions to these things are to me: inherently problematic.

felix_dakat · June 20, 2021, 7:14pm

In both cases I told you what I thought about it. People act the way they want not the way I want.

iambiguous · June 20, 2021, 7:43pm

Ah, a rationalization!

Yeah, I use them myself.

iambiguous · June 21, 2021, 4:37pm

Blindsight: the strangest form of consciousness
David Robson at the BBC Future website

Of course for those who were once sighted and then lost their vision, it is possible to explore the reality of both worlds. Though, again, these realities are no less rooted in what can certainly be very, very different sets of circumstances. So the part pertaining to dasein is always going to be an important component of anything that they relate to us.

Thus, as always, it comes down to that which we are able to demonstrate to others is a reasonable point of view.

On the other hand, even that has to come to grips with the “hidden depths of the human mind”. The mystery of mind – consciousness – itself.

When Daniel first walked into London’s National Hospital, ophthalmologist Michael Sanders could have had little idea that he would permanently alter our view of human consciousness.

Daniel turned up saying that he was half blind. Although he had healthy eyes, a brain operation to cure headaches seemed to have destroyed a region that was crucial for vision. The result was that almost everything to the left of his nose was invisible to him. It was as if he were looking out of a window, with the curtains drawn across half of his world.

And yet, as Sanders began testing him, he noticed something very strange: Daniel could reach out and grab Sanders’ hand, even when it must have fallen right behind his blind spot. It was as if some kind of “second sight” was guiding his behaviour, beyond his conscious awareness.

Here we are entering the realm of…Dr. Oliver Sacks? The world of Awakenings and men who mistake their wives for hats. A surreal exploration into the often mind-boggling manner in which the brain itself can create “conditions” almost beyond imagining. Think, for example, Leonard in Memento. Now imagine him sharing Daniel’s affliction as well.

Aventador · June 21, 2021, 4:57pm

iambiguous · June 21, 2021, 5:21pm

Actually, to the best of my knowledge, I never “wen” anywhere.

So, do you have anything at all to offer in the way of an opinion regarding the existential relationship between sense deprivation, dasein and human identity?

Or is being a fly on the wall here as deep as you’re prepared to go?

Aventador · June 21, 2021, 5:30pm

So it’s confirmed then, your whole Vietnam story is a cowardly falsehood? I get to keep my $1000?

iambiguous · June 21, 2021, 5:37pm

Note to others:

Not to worry. Although I can’t shoo the flies away from the thread, I can ignore them.

How about starting…now.