Do You Believe In Santa Christ?

Philosophy Forums Religion and Spirituality
1

I read in another thread in this section where the writer referenced “God” as being somewhat equivalent to Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny from an existential question perspective.

And that got me to wondering … again.

When we were children we were taught that Santa Claus comes down the chimney and delivers toys to good little girls and boys … and we were taught that Jesus was the one and only son of God who died and rose from the grave and ascended into heaven … and that Easter Bunny brings candy to children in Easter Baskets … and that Tooth Fairy exchanges our lost teeth for money.

All of these are taught us as children (assuming you aren’t of a conflicting faith or whatever). The point is that those who are taught these as children by our parents believe them … and then, little by little, one by one, we come to outgrow them … until we no longer believe in them by the time we’re older.

That’s because we outgrow the need for fantasy to explain what we don’t grasp or for fantasy to cope with difficult experiences or thoughts or for fantasy to derive pleasure at a childish degree (okay, some never outgrow the last one, and that’s arguably somewhat of an issue if it interferes with an adult’s ability to function in an adult world).

For the vast most part, we outgrow the need to think that the fantasy of Santa Claus, Easter Bunny, and Tooth Fairy are real.

Nevertheless, one of these stories lingers in most: the Jesus one.

The Jesus fantasy seems the most difficult of all the fantasies to outgrow.

There is no more basis in truth to the Jesus story than to any of the others. The fact that Jesus lived is analagous to the life of Saint Nicholas (Santa Claus) – both are real people who have had fantasies applied to their lives.

But, nevertheless, people often carry the Jesus fantasy belief into adulthood and to death.

So, my question is, do you still believe in the Jesus fantasy?

If so, why do you still believe in the Jesus fantasy?

If you no longer do, why don’t you still believe in the Jesus fantasy?

2

I don’t believe in the Jesus fantasy for one reason: there’s simply no evidence to suggest any of it is true.

Some people would argue to the contrary, but it would be impossible to deny the bias in their agenda.

3

I have a question. When do we outgrow the need to post invective in place of argument? When do we outgrow the desire to be merely offensive, rather than polemic?

Okay, that’s two questions.

4

Finally someone knows the difference.

Good work, Fausty.

The polemic is a specialized form of criticism. It must be arranged rhetorically so that it operates elusively, that is, so it isn’t heard as a mere rant.

5

I get a little tired of this, as you know, detrop. It’s just not useful to vent one’s spleen from the get-go. Bile stinks.

Love the mask, by the way.

6

Why would we post argument knowing that logic and reason don’t play by the same rules as faith? Why do we help our fellow man even when on an infinite timeline, our race will inevitably be destroyed? :confused:

7

Dude - this isn’t some metaphysical Star Chamber - it’s a community of intellectuals that might want to get along a bit for very mundane reasons. We might just want to get over ourselves enough to attempt civility.

Or we might not.

8

I of course agree, I prefer pleasantries, as do most, but I don’t think it’s always possible, especially when discussing religion. It’s even one of the three rules of conversation to avoid unpleasantries. The stakes are already known.

Civility is subjective, and although it’s apparent when somebody is avoiding civility in most cases, I could easily see how one would take offense being asked why they still believe in something that has as much evidence as Santa Clause. I don’t think it makes the question less valid.

9

actually I think it brings up a good point,
we have idea’s, ideologies, feelings, that have
been planted in us in childhood, from schools, church,
media, and family. I like to think that philosophy is the
method (one of) used to remove from us
childhood propaganda.

I believe that the ideology of jesus is planted in us in childhood,
and we need to leave childhood ideologies behind us.

Kropotkin

10

Yeah, Peter, and you have stated it civilly.

11

The question seems a bit loaded. No, I don’t believe in the Jesus fantasy, because if it was a fanstasy I wouldn’t believe. I believe in the Life of Jesus, which has not been refuted to this day, except misconcepted conspiracy theories and people gullible enough to believe The Da Vinci Code as truth, these people.

I never recall remembering a time when I ever believed in Santa, or the tooth fairy. I think possibly because it seemed to good to be true something took the time to settle my little selfish desires and wants. Of course we all know Santa couldn’t bring anyone back from the dead, he could just bring that video game you’d be and be tired of in a month, what a waste Santa was, no fulfillment.

However, as appealing as these Santa and Jesus analogies seem to be, we must remember they’re are no Anti-Santas, Anti-Tooth Fairies, Agnostic Santa skeptics, or long arguments as to Santa’s existence, as we can see, if they were true they would have made a bigger impression and we’d be doing all we could to disprove them.

12

Is it not rather common to see people identify so completely with their ideas that the literally ARE those ideas?

Any disagreement with their ideas is considered a personal attack, and there goes the neighborhood.

Another grouping are those who consider themselves above everyone else in their great and voluminous understanding and show their disdain and displeasure with anyone who would dare question their pontifications.

Same problem.

13

No it’s not.

Being an “intellectual” is not requirement for membership – philosophy is not limited to being of and about the mind, Faust, nor is it limited to being the property of the mentally centered.

Me thinks thou doest project too much. :laughing:

You would be the pot calling the kettle black … except that I don’t qualify as a kettle. :wink:

Philosophy is not without its conflicting perspective. Acceptance of that reality is really for the best.

So please try to stay on-topic and try to answer the simple questions in the initial post of this thread, Mr. Christian ( :wink: ), and save your initiation of “subtle” invectives for the Rant House. :sunglasses:

14

fausty has a good point… and detrop (that is my favorite movie of all time.) The Pit of Despair et al.

I think there is a way to have said that without taking it down a road of “Jesus Fantasy” which right there becomes a slam and a reason to hit you (if say, I was a born again person)

fausty (applaud emoticon)

But beyond your style, I think the big issue here isn’t whether Jesus existed. He was a Jewish boy, then a man who is said to not be a man at all but the son of God. I could argue that we are all sons and daughters of God (which is the way I interpret it) but to some, this carries great meaning to their lives and gives them a purpose… a reason to be better - a reason to have everlasting life. I have said it before…

Damn, I am so jealous of that level of “knowing.”

I could post the history of father Christmas now, but it is time for my glass of wine so I must run. I will be back for Santa comments.

TTLU boys.

15

Then why did you?

I merely posed a question, and I posed it accurately.

That you take issue with such civilly presented accuracy is no reason to get testy. :laughing:

Please try to stay on-topic.

Thank you.

16

==========
You may consider Jesus to be a fantasy but to others including me believe in Jesus the Christ as God-in-the-flesh or made incarnate to be an example to humankind. there were others before him: Buddha, Zoroaaster, Plato was believedto have been a Divine Son, Pythagoras, aslo believed to be Divine, mexico had a Quetzalcoat, the Mayas of Yucatan had a Zama, Egyptians Horus…etc. But jesus was the last and the greatest. My question is: what good have you done this week?

17

Amazing.

All this “respect” for those who can’t face the reality that the story of Jesus dying and rising from the dead and ascending into heaven qualifies as a fantasy. :astonished:

But, of course, those who face the truth of its fantastic nature deserve to be hit. :unamused:

For a philosopher, someone who is supposed to use all her brain to seek the truth, you seem less interested in waxing philosophic than in defending those who can’t handle the truth.

In the process, you fail to answer the simple questions posed at the end of the initial post in this thread.

So now I find myself asking a couple of additional questions of you.

First, why do people who still believe in the Jesus fantasy have such power over your behavior?

And second, why do you fear them so much?

(The last question is applicable to anyone in this thread who felt compelled to defend those who still believe the Jesus fantasy rather than simply answering the questions and staying on-topic. :sunglasses: )

18

Are you saying that you are an adult who still believes that Jesus died and rose from the dead and ascended into Heaven and is still alive?

19

JennyHeart,

This may come as a shock to you, but titling a thread with the term SantaChrist isn’t exactly designed to begin a civil discussion. That such a term could be seen as baiting Christian members shouldn’t be too big of a surprise.

As for accuracy, from whose perspective? The Christian members of ILP?

Really?

20

I titled the thread appropriate to the substance of the initial post.

If presenting the psychological truth of the matter is considered “baiting”, then I suggest you walk on eggshells the next time you have an opinion that is likely to conflict with anyone else’s.

This is a philosophy board and this is a philosophical matter of a religious nature.

I have posed the right question the right way in the right forum of the right board.

I strongly suggest you spend less time codependently worrying about who will be offended, and I encourage you to spend more time courageously stating your perspective relevant to the last three questions of the initial post in this thread.

:unamused: :unamused: :unamused: