I spent my childhood having to avoid touching anything on the beach that was made of metal or was tubular or was large, knobby and round…in fact, we were warned not to touch anything if we weren’t absolutely sure what it was. The problem was all the WWII ordnance that had gone astray and was still floating around. We narrowly missed a mine on our boat one time. And then there were the huge concrete gun emplacements, not to mention the huge blocks of concrete strewn along some beaches to prevent access by landing craft of tanks and such. Was all that REALLY manufactured by propagandists? Hell of a lot of trouble to go to! And I wonder how nobody saw them constructing these monsters in concrete.
I’m still hoping the moon is made of cheese. I beleieve there was substance to the film Capricorn One.
I saw the film a long time ago and I’m afraid that I can’t remember it now. I’m sure it’s fiction. I mean, that’s what stories are. But sometimes, as in for example 1984, they come uncomfortably close to reflecting reality. Of course, if you have swallowed the propaganda that is called Science, then you will have a rather deluded view of reality and will be unable to recognise when fiction is accurately reflecting fact.
Yea, I think you missed my point. My point was that there’s all that equivalent stuff for concentration camps—you know, physical evidence, pictures, personal accounts, facts, data, etc. So, when I thought someone was actually denying the existence of the holocaust, I tried to use some indirection to show how stupid such a claim would be. A bit of irony, and an analogy.
Apparently, I rushed to judgment and was totally mistaken about what the person was saying. It was my bad.
It would have to be a very light cheese, such as Feta, or perhaps a cheese full of holes, like Emental, to match the density of the moon according to current measurements. Still, the jury is still out.
I’m always suspicious of measurements of density. What method did they use? An IQ test? According to that, I should imagine the moon is considerably less dense than the average member of this forum!
Is this thread propaganda (or the result of it)?
Is it propaganda to make believe that one has resisted previous propaganda… unto another form of the same?
Girly totally ignores my post. Fucking pathetic.
Everybody succumbs to propoganda because propaganda quite simply is an opinionated piece of information meant to influence the opinions of others.
Simple as that.
The message propaganda holds however can be infinitely varied and whether or not one “falls for it” depends on the observers opinion of the propoganda in this case negatively and seeing it as false.
Your reply is so glib. It suggests rather too much confidence, where confidence is undoubtedly unwarranted. You seem to be accepting that you, along with everyone else, succumb to propaganda. That’s just the way it is. How about considering consequences? How about considering that succumbing to propaganda might be the root of much illness and psychological problems in our society, possibly even violence? How about considering that if that is the case, then it is unacceptable and something needs to be done — at the very LEAST one can protest by refraining from being glib and instead express one’s dis-satisfaction with the state of society.
Actually, one does not need to succumb to propaganda. Propaganda is a type, or class, of means of expression. One can learn to recognise such types and classes and thus recognise anything that is of the nature of propaganda and therefore distrust it.
If I knew who girly was, Tyrranus, I’d give her a right good talking to on your behalf!
I agree that one can do this in relation to what formally gets referred to as propaganda, generally manipulative rhetoric and images, where the political goals are fairly easy to pick out and the skill comes in finding the manipulative portions of the text or implicit ideas in the images. But a lot of propaganda is more deeply implicit than this. We are bombarded with information skewed in ways that need not even be in the texts themselves. What we unconsciously pick up are the ideas that need to have a counter opinion presented in parallel when they are presented and those ideas that do not need this ‘balance’. The implicit values in all sorts of media that are not the main point of the story, ad, song, etc. The assumptions about norms in the background. Note: I do think one can learn to not be taken in here also, but it is much harder than dealing with what gets called propaganda but is really propaganda 101. The stuff that has a tag on it saying - hey I am propaganda and here’s why I’m right. That stuff is the easy stuff.
What is the propaganda in students responding to ringing bells and moving to the next room with rows of seats?
What is the propaganda in the way we are shown what leads to happiness and what does not without ever mentioning the issue and having a layer of propaganda/theme/message on top of this? in fact the writers/producers likely do not even realize they have this layer of propaganda themselves. It is so obvious to them they don’t even think about it.
What is the propaganda inherent in the dominant metaphors in psychology, politics, ethics, the ways we talk about ourselves?
Being aware of propaganda merely slows its effect. It doesn’t eliminate it.
Fox news is propaganda. FEMA camps are real.
That’s also true. A lot of people are aware of the manipulation in specific advertising and can consciously mock it, and yet they go out and buy that Product anyway - simply because it comes up in their mind or because despite their mocking they Think dandruff might be a real problem and then in more automaton-like ways.
How is it too much confidence?
Why is it doubtlessly unwarrented?
Why should I consider that? You’re obviously reffering to something specifc where as i’m speaking generally.
So what exactly are you talking about?
Like I already said it depends on what the nature of the propoganda is, people accept propoganda when it makes sense to them.
And Propoganda is not equitable to a falsehood which i imagine is the premise for which you are judging the “evilness” of it.
The term used to be neutral so you do have a Point, however even as a neutral term, it is not meant to inform and present all the relevent information. It is meant to convince, by definition, and need not adhere to logic, full disclosure, avoidance of fallacies, good use of analogy and so on. Of course it may be correct, but it is a poor source to decide on something precisely because propaganda, by definition, lacks the kind of rigor that good information sources have.
Well propoganda is supposed to be concise and to the point, not a wall of text with numerous referances.
I think it’s all relative, the propoganda is obviously based on some worldview and it is with that and the people who adhere to it, their sourcs etc. where one can look for more in depth study.
But Propoganda is utilized to be easy to understand and to the point.
Whether it is True or not is relative to what is being promoted/dissaproved of etc.
What propaganda is “supposed to be”, is persuasive. Hollywood films have become almost nothing but propaganda films because in order to be persuasive, they have to be both insidiously distracting and payed for by those being hypnotized by them.
But of course, since you haven’t noticed being hypnotized, you obviously haven’t been. “Hypnotize” means “beneath awareness/knowledge” - “affected while unaware” - “unnoticed affect”.
You can have short clear texts that do not include fallacies, like the false dichotemy implicit in what you said here.
Sure, but that doesn’t really relate to the Point I was making. I was not saying that there should be no propaganda. I was saying that if one Changes one’s mind due to propaganda one has chosen a poor methodology for arriving at good beliefs.
Propaganda need not be short. Long books can be propaganda. Given that simplification and oversimplification are core Tools of propaganda many items of propaganda are short. But it is not a necessary characteristic, since one can simplify issues and even radically oversimplify them in long texts or long films.
Again the truth value is not something I made an issue of. Propaganda can be true or false or a mixture. Often even the worst propaganda includes some truth because this makes it seem like the (primary) conclusions are true (and the Connections are logical).