Does anyone know anything about Notre Dame football?

If you do can you tell me what their current situation looks like?

The past 3 years media has said theyve had some of the best recruiting classes. Is there a media bias? Does a class just turn out to be overrated? What does Charlie Weiss’s situation look like?

Thanks and peace be with you.

All I know about is the hunchback, and Rudy.

I do know that Alabama is 11-0 and #1 in the nation right now.

Notre Dame is where quality recruits go to die.

What I can say about Notre Dame is that for the last few years, themselves, their fans, people that are not their fans and anyone involved with college football has had high expectations for the team and they consistently fail to meet those expectations.

As of right now, they are 6-4 with two games remaining. The game next week is home against Syracuse (who is awful) and ND should win that game. Their final game of the regular season is at USC and there is no reason Notre Dame should beat USC. At 7-5, Notre Dame will probably get into some bowl game because the powers that be seem to smile on them for whatever reason.

To date Notre Dame has only played one team ranked in the top 25 and they lost to #22 North Carolina. The combined record of opponents Notre Dame has beaten (to this point) is 18-46. Assuming they beat Syracuse and lose to USC and also assuming that Cincinnati beats Syracuse (another event that should happen) the combined record of opponents Notre Dame has beaten at the end of the season will be 20-56.

Notre Dame’s most menaingful win came against Navy, the only team they have beaten that currently has a winning record.

I am not a hater of Notre Dame but I do not think they should go to a bowl game at 7-5 because it would be a very weak 7-5. One must consider that the winning percentage of opponents Notre Dame has beaten (and that is giving them the Syracuse game) will only be 26%. Additionally, they will still have only beaten one team with a winning record!

The only way I think Notre Dame should go to a bowl game this year is if they beat USC, and even then I would be hesistant, although, you can’t really keep an 8-4 team out of a bowl game.

I know all there is to know about it.

It’s a group of kids who got major benefits in high school for being on the football team who then got scholarships to very nice universities to play more football while the kids who actually want to learn have to work extremely hard for it.

These kids then get sucked right on through because their grades are illegally changed to straight A’s so they can stay on the team.

There’s a whole lotta nonsense in between, but it basically leads up to a bunch of illiterate NFL players.

Football is fucking stupid, and it’s obvious that our country needs to set it’s priorities straight when it comes to education.

Keep sports the fuck out of public schools. Keep it private. The parents of hard working students don’t want to pay for nice indoor practicing stadiums while the math classes are still taught in trailers.

Should we also ban PE class while we are at it?

Let us not forget about the all-important balance between body and mind.

And just for the record, NFL players are not illiterate. To be drafted you must finish at least two years of college with passing grades. If you are looking for illiterate, look at the MLB, you can be drafted straight out of high school, but you do not actually need a HS education (or its equivalent) to play.

For the record, I played football all four years of high school and carried a legitimate 3.6 cumulative GPA.

It is also worth mentioning that colleges award so many football scholarships because college football brings in big-time revenue, there are some that even believe college players should be paid. I can’t speak for every high school in the country, but I can safely say that almost all of the college stadiums that get built pay for themselves and then some, and result in revenue that is used in other academic areas, the same I’m sure can be said for the revenue that football brings in for many high schools.

Many Ivy League schools have football teams and offer football scholarships, smart and deserving kids are their bread and butter, do you believe an Ivy League school would give too many scholarships to non-deserving kids.

I’d also like to ask you another another question: Let’s say a school needs a new science lab, what is financing this lab, admissions from the debate competitions?

Edited to correct grammatical error.

I wrote a very lengthly response to your inquiries, it took me over an hour to do. As a result, I was automatically logged out when I hit submit, the screen popped up telling me to log in, which I did, but then it took me to a page with a blank message. When i hit my back button to get to the post that I slaved for over an hour to type, it was gone. Once I figure out how to do so, I will turn off whatever it is that automatically logged me out. In the meantime, I will answer your questions one at a time starting tomorrow.

Should we also ban PE class while we are at it?

Depending. I think the educational part should remain. The part where kids are forced to run a mile in 30 degree weather needs to go.

And just for the record, NFL players are not illiterate. To be drafted you must finish at least two years of college with passing grades. If you are looking for illiterate, look at the MLB, you can be drafted straight out of high school, but you do not actually need a HS education (or its equivalent) to play.

Haven’t you ever heard of kids getting scholarships solely because they are good at football? Passing grades at community college…big whoop. Lots of the NFL players are drafted straight out of big universities, and not colleges. The same players who did not in any way earn the further education that they most likely completely blew off but passed anyway due to corruption.

It is also worth mentioning that colleges award so many football scholarships because college football brings in big-time revenue

Bingo.

I can’t speak for every high school in the country, but I can safely say that almost all of the college stadiums that get built pay for themselves and then some, and result in revenue that is used in other academic areas

This is because they are mostly private universities. At that point it doesn’t matter in terms of spending. At my local high school, they literally built an indoor practice arena for the football team while the math classes are still taught in trailers, and this was at a public school.

Many Ivy League schools have football teams and offer football scholarships, smart and deserving kids are their bread and butter, do you believe an Ivy League school would give too many scholarships to non-deserving kids.

Absolutely, because nobody deserves a scholarship just because they are good at a game.

I’d also like to ask you another another question: Let’s say a school needs a new science lab, what is financing this lab, admissions from the debate competitions?

Tax money.

Edited to correct grammatical error.
[/quote]

Ivy League schools don’t offer athletic scholarships.

I wrote: Should we also ban PE class while we are at it?

You Responded: Depending. I think the educational part should remain. The part where kids are forced to run a mile in 30 degree weather needs to go.

My Counter: I agree, I am not a fan of pneumonia myself. Run the mile indoors. If you can’t run a mile indoors your only excuse is being old, ill, disabled or dead.

I wrote: And just for the record, NFL players are not illiterate. To be drafted you must finish at least two years of college with passing grades. If you are looking for illiterate, look at the MLB, you can be drafted straight out of high school, but you do not actually need a HS education (or its equivalent) to play.

You Responded: Haven’t you ever heard of kids getting scholarships solely because they are good at football? Passing grades at community college…big whoop. Lots of the NFL players are drafted straight out of big universities, and not colleges. The same players who did not in any way earn the further education that they most likely completely blew off but passed anyway due to corruption.

My Counter: Community College!? How many community colleges have actual football teams, it has to be less than half! I never said anything about community college, all I said was they have to get through the first two years with passing grades, they can be drafted from universities without graduating. “Most likely completely blew off,” I apologize for saying this but that is a close-minded statement. You are aware that collegiates only have football season one out of two semesters, right?

I wrote: It is also worth mentioning that colleges award so many football scholarships because college football brings in big-time revenue.

You Responded: Bingo.

My Counter: Hey, money is money, you don’t have money, you don’t have as much of an ability to get new or updated facilities.

I wrote: I can’t speak for every high school in the country, but I can safely say that almost all of the college stadiums that get built pay for themselves and then some, and result in revenue that is used in other academic areas

You Responded: This is because they are mostly private universities. At that point it doesn’t matter in terms of spending. At my local high school, they literally built an indoor practice arena for the football team while the math classes are still taught in trailers, and this was at a public school.

My Counter: Your local high school is poorly managed, the PTA, and all of the administrative staff should be immediately replaced with people that are not idiots. However, you should not base an entire opinion, an entire belief, on one isolated example. I went to three different high schools, I played football at three different high schools, (I was also on the Debate team, the French Club, and the Culinary Arts Club) and I never learned Math while inside a trailer, although, I did practice football outside in all three instances.

I wrote: Many Ivy League schools have football teams and offer football scholarships, smart and deserving kids are their bread and butter, do you believe an Ivy League school would give too many scholarships to non-deserving kids.

You Responded: Absolutely, because nobody deserves a scholarship just because they are good at a game.

My Counter: Then you should endorse only Ivy-League schools or non-Ivy-League schools that do not have football teams. There are both private and public universities and colleges out there that do not have football teams, ergo, they give out no football scholarships, endorse those schools.

I Wrote: I’d also like to ask you another another question: Let’s say a school needs a new science lab, what is financing this lab, admissions from the debate competitions?

You Responded: Tax money.

My Counter: I don’t know if you have a ton of money that you can spread all over the place, or if you don’t care where your money goes, but if there is a way to finance something that does not involve taking MY money, then I am usually all for it. Do not misunderstand me, I vote, “Yes,” to the school levies and everything when they come up and I understand that it is both appropriate and necessary for some of my money to be taxed for use in public schools, but if I can choose between 1% of my earnings and 2.5% (Or whatever it would be) of my earnings, I like the 1%.

There are also some (very few, but some) private and public high schools that do not have football teams.

My main point is, as long as the football revenues are the only thing that are paying for the football scholarships, go for it because you have no reason not to. And if these kids are blowing off their education and do not make the NFL, then their degrees will be worthless pieces of paper in the real world anyway.

It is also worth mentioning that both college and high school football create jobs, maintenance people, groundspeople, snack vendors, janitors, construction workers (When stadiums are being built/renovated/repaired) gatekeepers, security guards, announcers etc…

You Responded: Depending. I think the educational part should remain. The part where kids are forced to run a mile in 30 degree weather needs to go.

My Counter: I agree, I am not a fan of pneumonia myself. Run the mile indoors. If you can’t run a mile indoors your only excuse is being old, ill, disabled or dead.

Your Rebuttal: It should be about education, not about making kids do exercise. If it’s a public school, that should be left to the parents.

My Counter: Physical EDUCATION. It is education, do you want to be healthy? If so, you need to learn the proper ways to lift, run, walk, stand, sit, etc… Besides, what is your alternative, sitting in a classroom for seven hours a day (less the lunch period) with no physical activity? Most people can not just wake up one day and know how to do calculus, to the same point, most people can not just wake up one day knowing the proper way to physically take care of themselves. As far as the parents are concerned, fine, if you want your kid to opt-out of Physical Education and increase the possibility (I am not making a generalization that this will happen, please note that) of having a fat, disgusting, unhealthy and out of shape kid, go for it. If you want to leave it up to anyone, leave it up to the kid.

My Counter: Community College!? How many community colleges have actual football teams, it has to be less than half! I never said anything about community college, all I said was they have to get through the first two years with passing grades, they can be drafted from universities without graduating. “Most likely completely blew off,” I apologize for saying this but that is a close-minded statement. You are aware that collegiates only have football season one out of two semesters, right?

Your Rebuttal: A.) I assumed by two years of college you meant acquiring an associates degree which is usually done through a community college. However, being the first two years of college, the courses wouldn’t vary too greatly either way.

B.) Have you honestly never heard of grades being illegally altered for the sake of keeping the football players in the school? It happens quite frequently, because when you go through high school only caring about football you tend to not know much when you get to college. Luckily, they don’t have to because the entertainment industry is obviously more important than academics.

My Counter: Fair enough, it would still be basic and general courses, but basic and general courses are better than no higher education at all, wouldn’t you agree? Very few football players, “…only care about football,” maybe they are not focused exclusively on academics, but one extra-curricular activity often begets other extra-cuuricular activities, football helps you develop bonding and social skills. Football teaches you lessons about life, how to treat your opponents with respect, how to succeed and still maintain your dignity, how not to crumble in the face of adversity, and most importantly, (in my opinion) how to fail and still maintain your dignity.

I wrote: It is also worth mentioning that colleges award so many football scholarships because college football brings in big-time revenue.

You Responded: Bingo.

My Counter: Hey, money is money, you don’t have money, you don’t have as much of an ability to get new or updated facilities.

Your Rebuttal: Money is money as education is education. Private universities are heavily funded by donations for one thing. At the same time, the football teams can still exist, but the matter at hand is that most of the players get an easy ticket through the system. The money can still be acquired in a fair manner.

My Counter: “Most of the players…,” by most I am assuming you mean a simple majority of the high school or college players get an “Easy ticket through the system,” I hate to be like this, but I would counter that statement by requesting you back it up with research and cite your sources. I am not saying that you are necessarily wrong, I just believe you have made a statement that goes beyond personal opinion and asserts what I believe to be a non-fact.

I wrote: I can’t speak for every high school in the country, but I can safely say that almost all of the college stadiums that get built pay for themselves and then some, and result in revenue that is used in other academic areas

You Responded: This is because they are mostly private universities. At that point it doesn’t matter in terms of spending. At my local high school, they literally built an indoor practice arena for the football team while the math classes are still taught in trailers, and this was at a public school.

My Counter: Your local high school is poorly managed, the PTA, and all of the administrative staff should be immediately replaced with people that are not idiots. However, you should not base an entire opinion, an entire belief, on one isolated example. I went to three different high schools, I played football at three different high schools, (I was also on the Debate team, the French Club, and the Culinary Arts Club) and I never learned Math while inside a trailer, although, I did practice football outside in all three instances.

Your Rebuttal: Yes, it is certainly poorly managed, along with tons of other schools in the same respect. This is the issue at hand. It needs to change.

My Counter: Agreed, in an academic institution, education should always come first.

I Wrote: I’d also like to ask you another another question: Let’s say a school needs a new science lab, what is financing this lab, admissions from the debate competitions?

You Responded: Tax money.

My Counter: I don’t know if you have a ton of money that you can spread all over the place, or if you don’t care where your money goes, but if there is a way to finance something that does not involve taking MY money, then I am usually all for it. Do not misunderstand me, I vote, “Yes,” to the school levies and everything when they come up and I understand that it is both appropriate and necessary for some of my money to be taxed for use in public schools, but if I can choose between 1% of my earnings and 2.5% (Or whatever it would be) of my earnings, I like the 1%.

Your Rebuttal: We are talking about public schools. The tax money can either:

A.) Fund some huge football/sports related events and buildings which can in the future help fund academic benefits.

OR

B.) The money can simply skip the needless middle man and directly fund the academic stuff, as is what school is supposed to be.

My Counter: If you directly fund academic stuff that does not bring in more revenue than what it was used to fund you have taken a loss. If you fund sports related events that bring in revenue to the extent that they pay for themselves, and pay for other things, you have gained. It is simple, you use money to make more money.

MY STATEMENT: There are also some (very few, but some) private and public high schools that do not have football teams.

My main point is, as long as the football revenues are the only thing that are paying for the football scholarships, go for it because you have no reason not to. And if these kids are blowing off their education and do not make the NFL, then their degrees will be worthless pieces of paper in the real world anyway.

Your Rebuttal: They also take up spaces in the school’s population which could otherwise be filled by someone with some REAL potential.

My Counter: You would just as soon persecute anyone that played high school football. How can you assume that football players have no academic potential, that they are just, “taking up space?” Besides, the kids with, “real potential,” benefit from the sports events because as we discussed earlier, much of this revenue goes to them indirectly. By the way, are you aware that some students with, “real potential,” work their way through college with work study programs, and oftentimes they are the employees at these sports events?

It is also worth mentioning that both college and high school football create jobs, maintenance people, groundspeople, snack vendors, janitors, construction workers (When stadiums are being built/renovated/repaired) gatekeepers, security guards, announcers etc…

Your Rebuttal: I can’t disagree with that, however I don’t think it justifies what goes into it.

Edit: This can also potentially cost someone who could cure cancer their career. Academics>entertainment.

My Counter: Not justifiable? Let me ask you a question. If we stopped all public college and high school sports events right now, this minute, just flat-out outlawed them, what do you think that would do to the economy, not to mention the unemployment rate?

Someone who could cure cancer? That someone wouldn’t be the person who, “…go through high school only caring about football…tend not to know much when you get to college…take up spaces in the school’s population which could otherwise be filled by someone with Real potential.,” those wouldn’t be the potential cancer-curers you are speaking of, would they?

And, if you are not talking about the football player him/her self but talking about someone missing a space in a school because it went to an undeserving football player, let me tell you something, if they are smart enough to be the person that finds a cure for cancer and they are focused, they will go to college somewhere and not be left out.

Yes, suddenly ending a large part of our economy would cause trouble. End of story.

Eclipse,

Our posts are getting looonngggg…Since this seems to be just between us so far, I am going to isolate the new statements you have made and give my replies:

You Wrote: You are assuming that kids (and parents) are idiots when it comes to physical well-being. By education I mean we should teach them about biology specifically regarding fitness. Why should government-run education systems force children to perform physical labor? Consider that as of right now, this is a required part of most school’s curriculum.

My Response: I assume that a child cannot learn something that he/she is not taught. Do we have Chemistry classes because we assume that kids (and parents) are idiots when it comes to chemistry? Of course, not every parent knows chemistry, and not every parent knows about proper physical fitness and exercise techniques.

As far as forcing anyone to do anything is concerned, I have already agreed with you regarding that. I just felt that it should be the child’s choice whether or not to take PE as opposed to the parents.

You Wrote: As far as I know the idea we are generally debating relates mostly to people getting extreme “educational” benefits in society due to the ability to throw a ball. The “lessons” taught through football can not even begin to be related to academic capability.

My Response: Yes, but you also assert that the recipient of the scholarship does not take college seriously, if the recipient is not taking college seriously then there is no educational benefit, just the benefit of being looked at by NFL scouts. Like I said before, if they get a degree by way of bullshit and do not make the NFL, then they are screwed for life and it will come out in the wash.

You Wrote: I will look this up tomorrow due to it being late in the morning right now. I’m not certain I will be able to find such numbers through the internet, but I will try. Regardless, it occurs. It has been specifically been brought up time and time again, through the media or otherwise.

My Response: Remember I did not at any point maintain that this doesn’t happen, my assertion was that it does not happen a majority of the time.

You Wrote: Sure, you may potentially gain, but that is not the purpose of public schooling whatsoever. The purpose is to educate children to become beneficial members of society. Given the fact that parents generally only have their children in the schooling system for a limited amount of time, it’s ludicrous to think that they would be interested in supporting future benefits given the fact that they can easily be funded in the future through academic means.

My Response: I think you misuse the word, “easily,” here. If funding was so, “easy,” then why can’t you have an indoor practice facility for football and a three-story building just for the Mathmatics department at your high school? When it comes to money, you make it where you can make it and take it where you can get it. Of course their kids are only in the system for a limited amount of time, but what about the parents who have one in the system and one on the way, and what about their grandkids. A school is like a business to the extent that if a decision is not for the greater financial good, the institution will usually not make that decision.

You Wrote: Most of them are simply taking up space because their single goal is success in the sports world. The kids with real potential can benefit directly instead of indirectly. And yes, perhaps some students also take place in sports but typically do not acquire their scholarships because of it.

My Response: Who has a single goal? What sane individual lives their entire life striving for only one thing?

Some students? If by some, you mean vast majority, then yes I agree.

MY IDEA: This would help satisfy both ends. The NFL could simply eliminate the rule that a player take (and pass) two years of college to be drafted. That way, the few that are physically gifted but completely inferior intellectually will not take these football scholarships as they will go straight to the NFL. Then, if you are going to award football scholarships, almost every student that receives the scholarships would have to be at least somewhat academically deserving. Please do not bring up that HS students that are good in football will be given passing grades so that they can stay on the team, due to No Child Left Behind, almost every student (football player or not) is given passing grades in high school regardless of whether or not he/she deserves them anyway.

Question One: Then what is up with these so called fantastic recruiting classes that they get?

There are four major fallacies with the entire concept of recruiting classes that I will now address:

1.) Recruit Rankings

When most of these experts are evaluating a team’s recruiting class they are generally basing it on very limited information about the minority of the actual recruits. The majority of these places have a list of the top 100-500 recruits upon which they are basing their rankings. It is theoretically possible that if I had a college football team I could pick up five of the Top 10 recruits on these lists, not pick up another recruit on the list, yet I will still be looked upon as one of the Top 5 best recruiting schools that year. Every year a college will generally recruit 20-40 players (not to mention walk on players that may get put on a team) now if I recruit five astounding players, but the other 15-35 guys are players that may not have even taken a snap in high school (unlikely, but you see what I am driving at) then my ranking as a recruiting team is falsely inflated.

2.) What Rankings are Based On

There is also some problem with what the recruits rankings are based on. First of all, it is primarily a numbers game as a recruit’s rank is based largely on stats from when he played high school ball with a great focus on his senior year. High school football and college football are two different games completely! Take the QB position, if I am a high school QB and I have a dominant team around me and my team murders all of the local teams, I may have thrown 30-35 TD’s in a season with 5 or less INT’s and average 200-something yards thrown per game. The problem is those stats mean nothing, the experts very rarely take into any serious consideration what kind of a team an individual player had around him in HS and what kind of teams he played, as evidenced by the fact that 80% of your top 50 recruits are going to come from high schools that went to their state playoffs.

The second item a recruit is largely based on is his performance in a work-out. How fast can he run the forty, what kind of throwing accuracy does he have, how high is his vertical leap, how many balls can he catch out of fifty when they are practically lofted to him, what is his height, his weight, how much can he bench or leg press? My answer to all of these questions is, WHO GIVES A SHIT? A 4.3 40 does not necessarily equate to touchdowns, benching in the high 400’s does not necessarily mean that you can block a defensive tackle from breaking the line and sacking the quarterback, I want to know how you can play!

3.) Schemes and Systems

Every team has offensive and defensive schemes and systems. The only two positions where a player does not have to fit into a scheme is kicker or punter, you can either kick or punt, or you can’t.

Anyway, take a West Coast style offense, that is the type of offense where you play out of the Shotgun which entails spreading players all over the field. You usually run this offense with a QB, an RB and 3-5 WR’s or TE’s acting almost as WR’s. Anyway, this kind of offense is great for moving the ball and making big plays, the sacrifice you make is you give your quarterback less protection.

That said, let’s say you recruit a QB who in high school had 28 TD’s, 3 INT’s, 200+ Passing Yards per Game, and 70% or better completion percentage, but has no mobility. This guy may be one of the Top 5 QB’s coming out of high school, problem being, he won’t work on your team. The QB is a great decision maker, he has a very good completion % and doesn’t throw many INT’s, but in a West Coast Offense his decision making will go downhill because he will not get the kind of protection that he was given in high school. You take a quarterback like this at the high school level and the HS football coach develops his team to play around him, at the college level the same guy has to develop to play with his team and this guy can’t do it.

First of all, he can’t scramble or cut-and-run, so if he is against a team with an above-average pass defense he may face plays where all of his receivers are tightly covered, or he may have a blitz coming at him and may not have time to go through his receiver rotation. His third or fourth option could be wide open and he would never see it. Now, there are a few QB’s in the NFL that are not always good at going through their rotation and seeing all of their options, but those guys are scramblers, when they run out of time or receivers to throw to, they tuck that ball and they will often run for positive yardage.

You may ask, so what if the QB can’t run? What is going to happen is this QB is going to be put in positions where he either has to throw the ball or take a sack. Now, QB’s don’t typically like getting hit, so this guy will often throw the ball when he is just hoping that he has a guy open. His decision-making is still good, because the majority of the time the ball will just be an incomplete pass which results in no loss of yardage, but it does significantly add to his liklihood of throwing an interception, which he often will. Also, when a QB is forced to throw, it can also take away from his accuracy which will drop his completion percentage greatly.

Finally, he will not throw as many TD’s per INT’s and that is a huge factor in a QB’s success. You have to understand that every time this guy throws a pick, takes a sack, or throws an incompletion he is lessening the chance of his team getting into a position where a TD throw may be reasonable.

4.) Pressure

College ball is completely different from high-school ball when you get recruited to a big-time college program. There is a huge difference between playing in front of a couple hundred to maybe a few thousand than playing in front of tens of thousands. Some guys can handle it, some can’t. It is very rare that you see a player melt down completely, but it does have some effect on many players.

That’s all for now, more to come, I will field the next question tomorrow.

Joe Montana does Gay Porn.

ummm what?

I’m serious.