What is so silly about arguing for the existence a Universal will?
All conscious things have a will, and they are all part of the Universe!
Right and wrong are based on our subjective views of a Universal will!
If you believe there is no objective right and wrong, then you can’t subscribe to a subjective code of ethics, because you are simply going off gut feelings.
huh? Could you elaborate on the last line there?
The universe can at least be said to have wills, plural, but a universal will…I dunno about that one…
Wills? Well, certainly not conflicting wills?
Oh no, certainly not…wait, why certainly?
We’re talking about one thing! That’s why.
The universe is one thing! What! It is a googleplex of things! Must we shout at each other!
So we are not part of the Universe, but separate from the Universe?
I dunno, man, seems like the only difference between the two is perspective. Have you seen the universe from a universal point of view?
What do you know about the universe? That’s what you will draw your inquiries from. How much of what you know (and there’s a lot that is unknown) is fact and how much theory?
Fact is, we know nothing if all we have is theories. It’s like asking if existence has meaning or if life has a purpose.
Whatever it is and has been that we have accepted as purposeful or just or right is what we have created; what man has decided as a way to function for all to maintain. And though consciousness is vast, we cannot see that as equivalent to the universe and I think it is wrong to see man as preeminent there. All we can do is look and ponder … and if we are looking for something, we look for and find what we already know and that is that we do not understand the unfathomableness.
But we can somehow realize that if there is a purpose, it is (and all life is together with it) happening. Though we can’t fully grasp it, it is operating ubiquitously there already. So why does there have to BE a purpose? Who am I to think I can know it? Surely whatever place will has, be it from God who willed everything into existence for His purpose, or even if there is no will anywhere to be found, how could our puny intellect match up against this extraordinary and amazing mystery of the universe, existence and purpose?
yeah, just read my thread on it
The will of the universe is probably like the will of most inanimate objects, which is to say that when feedback adds predictability to a system, it becomes possible for a spectator to describe the system as having desires. For example, If a ball rolling along inside of a gutter down a hill hits a pebble and, as a result, rolls up the hill in either direction, the change in slope will cause the ball to roll back down to the lowest part, where it will eventually stabilize its course and continue along the line marking the low point. The ball could easily be described as “wanting” to keep rolling along the lowest path possible. I think that the universe might have feedback system quite different than this, but similar in its mindlessness. If events are predetermined so that one event leads inevitably to the next, then each specific way that the universe could begin would lead inevitably to a specific ending. If one or more events along the course of time either must happen so as to satisfy the logical situation that gives rise to existence or must not happen so as not to defy said logic, for example, total annihilation or logical contradiction, the universe would be forced not to begin from certain conditions. If the nature of time is that it cannot begin flowing until its contents are suitably arranged, it would be possible for a potential universe to grow to shape more or less on its own. If existence would inherently have been a single unmoving speck of sheer somethingness, that speck could have been made to grow into the quantity of energy initially present, and the “will of the universe” would be contained within the structure itself, guaranteeing its certain fate.
I’ve seen absolutely no cogent evidence of a universal will or God.
I say I have a will, but there is no “I” that’s not just an attribution of singularity to multiplicity. It’s a convention. I think it can be just as (in)valid to attribute singularity to the universe. So I agree that the universe can be said to have a will - but only if there are other universes. Will is always about relations, after all.
Well, let’s look at what a purpose actually is…
Is a purpose the intention behind creation, or is it the function eventually served?
I think most people would consider the purpose of a door to block air/light/sound/people from passing through a doorway… But if I build a door, with that function in mind, and I screw it up and the door comes out about half size and doesn’t really do anything I intended it to… What is that door’s purpose?
By that logic, everything is purposeful if it has any affect on anything.
The purpose behind intellectual inquiry is to understand something. Within the realm it inhabits, thought, and its ability, is disconnected and disjointed until a desired purpose is created. In this case, there is a demand from outside to temporarily coordinate mental capabilities and come up with a response to a question. The function of thought needs a created purpose to be imposed on it, it is forced to accept a demand placed upon it.
Thought then creates a purpose: to begin at a point and then through a process come to an end with results. There has to be a beginning and an end to arrive at in order for thought to conceive of an answer. There is a question that demands an answer the understanding of which eventually becomes inconsequential if all thought wants to do is keep its purpose operating. At some point, in the time it takes for thought to work out a conclusion from its beginning, there comes the reality that perfect understanding is totally elusive because the answer is difficult or impossible to achieve. But thought finds fulfilment in the process of questioning so much that it will not stop. The purpose that thought serves is to continually create an intention to find an answer to the questions that thought itself extracts from its own functioning.
If the purpose of thought was to answer once and for all the inquiry, then its function was served. But thought will not rest in the answer. Thought will always try to seek out a solution even if the problem is something ostensibly made up by thought just so it can keep busy and continue.
All unconscious things don’t have a will, and they are all part of the Universe too.
Well the universe is remarkably more complex then the human brain…especially considering it has human brains in it… perhaps from some extremely large perspective the universe would appear life like…I think of integrals in math…and derivatives… and consider that maybe the universe and what will it has is like the integral of what we call thought…something more perhaps… but who knows…
Definitely this.
You sure about this?