how do you discuss beliefs/religion logically to dogmatic people without them thinking you are the devil.
My family is fundamental mormons. When I ask questions about why they believe certain things, I am asked to just be quiet, or even to shut up.
So, has anyone ever come accross this problem, where you are trying to discuss someones religious ideas respectfully, but they think you are speaking devil talk.
Has anyone come up with any good ideas. It is just frustrating.
02.18.07.1938
Interesting. Some questions…
-Are you a mormon?
-If not, are you old enough to leave your family to make a life for yourself?
-If so, why not just tell them once and for all why their belief system is even more messed up than mainstream Christianity. If they physically attack you for this, sue them… otherwise, tell them off and make a life for yourself. Change your name, move to another country… whatever it takes to rid your life of your connection with such people.
Are you guys the devil?
-raised in mormon flying colors. I no longer believe in mormonism.
-I am old enough and live away from home, but when I do go home I feel like I have to tiptoe when discussing religious/political stuff, especially religious. When I question a religious creed, I AM the one who is considered to be intolerant and disrespectful. Seems like a play on words to me, hmm.
-I think they are afraid that what they have based their whole life on is complete whack, and won’t consider even thinking about it. Also, people who question the truth must be the devil, or else why would they ask such questions that might lead them off the path to the celestial kingdom.
They are just really messed up when it comes to talking openly about spirituality and religion. But other non-mormon fundamentalists I have found do the same thing quite often. So the question remains, how can you talk to them without them thinking you are Satan? Or is this question to cunning, which proves I am of the devil. 
Ok, I am going to go check in with hades now and buy a pitch fork.
=D> =D> Thanks Uccisore!! 
I wasn’t meaning that all theists/deists think you are of satan when you question their beliefs, I was talking about all the dogmatic people whom I have encountered this with personally.
…and for the record, I am only a distant cousin of the devil, but his birth cirtificate can’t be found so there is no way to proove it for sure.
What is your motivation for discussing it with them?
I can respect anyones views or beliefs even if they don’t make any sense to me. I just get curious why they are so dogmatic about certain things, I am curious why they do that stuff, and I am curious to how they will respond to the way I look at stuff. I just want to say, “this is how I look at it” but I get cut off when I start saying something like that, and I don’t get an answer when I ask. It is frustrating, because it is your siblings and parents, and you see them all the time, and you are naturally curious about how they see things, and you want them to at least hear you out, not like they have to agree with you.
It is weird to be so at odds with your family on theology grounds. I mean it really separates your relationship and what you can talk to them about.
It must be painful not to be able to talk to people that you love about something that is important to you. They obviously feel threatened by your questions. I knew a Mormon fellow once who was quite open to question religion until he was indoctrinated prior to doing as year of missionary work. Then he became completely dogmatic. Questioning must be severely sanctioned by Mormon leaders. He seemed to be afraid.
fear is the key. I did not leave the mormon church until after I served a mission as well. In the mormon temple they tell you that the satan will take over your bodies if you share certain masonic like symbols that you learn.
Lots of fear disguised as gods law. super unnessesary things to grow up with.
I don’t know if you find this helpful but I’m agnostic and have often found it nessasary to defend that choice from people who are dogmatic. I don’t try to convince them their beliefs are wrong but I do not let them stomp over mine either, simply being alive means you have beliefs, agnostic is simply to be on the fence, my case by choice.
Back to the topic at hand I have met a number of dogmatic people, including mormons but more riggorously cathloics, not sure why, and I have found that a way to defuse dogmatism is to play devils advocate to find the hard points in their belief system, or something they are unvavering on.
I have often found that by sliding with the argument you can often bring to light it’s faults with simple questions. this dosen’t change their beliefs but it takes away a great deal of the force behind their argument making it easier to talk calmly.
Since you went on a mission, and I assume that you were once a believing-Mormon, I think you should be able to see where they are coming from. For most people, simply sticking with what they know is what is best for them. They are dogmatic about it because they have been told to be, and they believe what they are told. They oppose your anti-dogmatic thinking because they percieve it as a mortal threat to your soul.
I think that is fair and reasonable, given their premises.
So why not simply respect their wishes, go through the motions of being a somewhat fallen-away Mormon when you are home, and forget about it? Going through the motions with your family won’t hurt you in any way, but it will foster a more harmonious environment at home. Additionally, there is always the chance that you might find something that you like in the religion of your family, something that is worth learning from and growing into. There is no reason it has to be all dogma and gloom. Additionally, there are communal advantages – I am sure that when you visit home, many of your friends remain Mormon, so you would be able to see and reconnect with many of them (assuming you’ve lost contact, that is).
Personally I think I would find it hard to dissimulate like that. I might try reaching a mutual understanding with them not to talk about religion. Give them to understand that if they fail to abide by that agreement, they can expect you to voice your opinion as well. No matter how you handle it, in the long run there is bound to be a distancing from the dogmatist which may be painful but is likely unavoidable.
thanks for the perspective guyes, I will think over all of it.
Given how much people see what they want to believe, I think it would be much easier than you imagine. Additionally, I am not advocating putting on a false face, but rather simply embracing his cultural Mormonism and some of the activities that go with it.
They know he is a fallen away Mormon by now (or so I imagine) so I’m not asking him to pray in private or be a furvent Christian, but rather to simply take advantage of the cultural elements that are available to him, to recognize those cultural elements, while disregarding the faith aspect of it.
It is my understanding that Mormonism has strong orthopraxic elements to it as well as orthodoxic elements. It is quite possible to have the former without the latter, in the same way that there are secular Jews.
I don’t see any conflict there, and while his parents might not love it, they are much more likely to accept it.
You are probably right. Their mythology seems zany to me but they are very successful as a social group. Accentuate the positive.