[i]God formed Adam out of earth, and set him in the Garden of Eden, to watch over it. Adam is allowed to eat of all the fruit within it, except that of the “Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.” God then brings all the animals to Adam, to serve as company for him. Adam gives names to all the animals, but finds no comfort in his loneliness. God then puts him into a deep sleep, takes a rib from his side, and from it forms a woman (called later “Eve”), to be a companion.
Eve is convinced by a talking serpent to eat of the forbidden fruit. Eve wisely questions the serpent and hesitates to take a bite. But after she finds it pleasant, Eve offers the fruit to Adam to eat it as well (the “original sin” in traditional Christian interpretation). Adam asks no questions. He immediately takes a bite. As punishment the ground is cursed, the death sentence is imposed (although it takes some time to be fulfilled), and Adam and Eve are driven out of the garden.[/i]
Theology anyone?
God is Pure Conciousness; nothing more.
This Conciousness posesses every form of matter.
‘Alive’ matter is aware conciousness.
Awareness means to have Knowledge.
Life is aware conciousness.
Conciousness clouded by awareness.
What is the Tree of Knowledge?
A metaphor for simply Awareness?
Eve was tempted by awareness of Good and Evil.
She just had to Know and the same for Adam.
They sinned because they were in the pursuit of power.
Knowledge is power.
Now they are alive.
Forever kicked out of just Pure Conciousness.
They are plagued with awareness. Plagued with ‘Life’.
‘Life’ is the pursuit of power.
Just to simply live you have already made the Original Sin.
You just had to Know.
Now you are being punished for it.
Please stop Knowing.
Embrace the unknown (not-knowing). Don’t be afraid.
You just had to Know so it is very hard to lose what you had to have.
Don’t be afraid to lose your Knowledge.
Just turn off your mind.
Relax.
And float down stream.
Everything will be fine.
You will be in the Garden again.
You will have found what you have always been looking for … Nothing.
I agree with all of your thoughts except for some miniscule differences. All matter is living, whether aware or not, simply just a lower degree of consciousness. It just appears that in order to obtain to the heights from the lowest amount of consciousness, to the highest, awareness must as somepoint come into existence. This awareness, though subjectively false in nature, is inevitably what must have occured. It is not punishment, but rather a reward, the gift of life to experience and be manifest. Awareness then must not be lost, as it is an aspect of higher consciousness, but rather it shall be embraced as a whole. It is not sufficient to stop eating the fruit, but rather to stop looking for and thinking about the fruit, as it will be provided to you regardless. Awareness then is expanded, for the fruit is no longer the only thing to eat, and other types of fruit(awareness or knowledge) is provided for lack of focus on the prior.
i couldnt agree more. i just recently came to this same conclusion. the more one learns the more one has to learn, no one seeking secrets will ever be content, because there will always be more. stop learning why you walk around, and just walk around. this point is made by c.s.lewis in the narnia books. one has everything one needs, when one chases after more one looses everything they once had. STOP CHASING. BE CONTENT. there is no reason to run when your tired, sit in the shade with a girl that isnt fake , instead.
p.p.s–i dont think programing yourself full of textbooks is nessecary…im 20 and honestly did nothing in school. to simplify that; i dont know shit. and yet i seem to know more then alot of the people that im surrounded by.
Thank you illativemindindeed. Your perspective enlightened me.
I am sure you addressed this point but maybe you can clarify it by answering me one question. Why do you think the bible considers the eating of the fruit the Original Sin? It is almost as if eating the fruit was a very bad mistake. Also, from experience I have found that the less aware I am the more the shit hits the fan, so to speak. I assume you are saying that you should embrace this degree of awareness but don’t consider it the only one. That there is much more out there to be explored. As we explore always respect this one just the same.
Your very much welcome, for as much as I enjoy pondering the truths of the world, it doesnt come nearly as close as helping others understand them also. Im truly grateful to have helped you.
Its important to understand that the Bible operates by converting the truths of the world into a form of law for those who would have a hard time understanding these truths in a more lucid form. I believe the concept of Original Sin being experience itself more so truly speaks to the truth of all experience as having some value of Karmic debt. Adam and Eve eating from the tree is representative of separating from God, and identifying oneself with the world. I understand your difficulties, for it appears as though since all experience should simply be accepted, that it isnt necessarily sin in itself. But it is the act of going after the experience that can be considered the sin. The tree of life is a prime example, for in experiencing knowledge, ie. the knowledge of the world, we have; though naturally, deviated from our true higher consciousness. We now have associated ourselves with the lower consciousness that exist of the world. Though a necessary step, in religion this can be percieved as sin, for it is going against God.
There are many degrees of awareness. In the beginning, awareness is low; and we do things without being aware of the consequences that must inevitably follow. We are unconscious to the self-awareness that can interfere with the choice of experience. Considering that the individual is more so identified with the experience as a result of the separation I mentioned above, the experience will inevitably affect them more. The more identification, the more relevant the experience, increasing the intensity of mental and emotional reaction to it. When we later become conscious of self-awareness, one becomes slowly more identified with this awareness, taking away from the idenfication of the experience. The beauty of this is, the more self-aware one is, the more aware of the experience and its relavance from this new perspective. This allows for additional experience to be considered more mentally than physically. This self awareness is not of the subjective self, or who we think we are. It is more so related to the higher consciousness of God. As we slowly become more identified with this consciousness, we bring it into our experience. Having the perspective of this higher consciousness slowly takes away from the perspective of the lower consciousness. The phenomena that appealed to this lower nature becomes increasingly trivial, and allows more room for the higher consciousness to fully absorb this lower consciousness.
I’ve come to believe that this admission of the relativity of perspective is so offensive because it denies the supremacy of egotism. Normally we try to put higher knowledge into the lower perspective lacking self awareness. (New wine in old bottles) However real understanding requires throwing out the old bottles from which we’ve acquired our self esteem and replacing them with bottles that can include this higher perspective. Not so easy.
Nick
“If you make people think they’re thinking, they’ll love you; but if you really make them think, they’ll hate you.” – Harlan Ellison
Your absolutely right. I can remember not long ago whilst gaining more awareness, the selfish urges that arise to gain power with this new knowledge I had been receiving. The further and further I moved towards integrating this higher consciousness with mine, the more my selfish desires began to subside. All change must occur in degrees, and while one is newly identififying themselves with this self-awareness, their wordly selves are still strong. This gradual push into higher consciousness slowly dissipates this self, into a more inclusive self, the self of higher consciousness. Those individuals who, while gaining higher consciousness, decide vehemently and contradictory to their urges to remain intact with their wordly selves or ego serve an even greater task than those who take the natural road. Going against your true nature elicits much consequence, as equal to your faults. Though this process is difficult, the hard part derives from the conscious integration of self, which though natural, requires the more conscious effort of the individual. But even when an individual is not able ascend to the higher thoughts of the higher consciousness, while succumbing to the lower, they will eventually be pushed into this higher consciousness. I believe this is the logic behind those individuals who seem to instantaneously receive the perspective and perception of the higher consciousness, without the seeming effort. They rejected the mental focus, ultimately continually focusing on the physical, bringing about the same effects as all experience must.
murdoc, you say “dont eat the fruit” you are correct. however it apears to me that you are still eating it. (if you care to here (from me) why you shouldnt eat the fruit, go to the “learnin” thread). peace.
Ah yes, I see your concern, GalacticHeart. May I ask you why you think I am still trying to Know? How many books do you think I read to come to the conclusion I came to?
We are alive aren’t we? To simply be alive we are already knowing. The suggestion I am making is that you should take a break from Knowing on a regular basis (meditation). It is impossible to be alive and constantly not Know. Try driving with your mind turned off …
I didn’t have to go anywhere to come to my conclusion. I just sat under a tree and stopped thinking.
well i’ll try to answer your questions, but only take my replies serious if they make sense to you…i think your still trying to know because you know your smart, and you feel that to not learn (on a scientific level) would be a waste of your intellagence. or maybe you associate science type learners with smart, intresting people. and you dont want to be the alternative. how many books have you read to come to your conclusion?..i dont know, but the way you typed your first post, makes me think it came not from a book, but from with in. maybe you read 50 boring books, and after having a headache, and know apparent knowledge, you realized the truth. p.s. i like how you said “you will be in the garden again”, i think your rite. now ask yourself what do i do in a garden? thats what im in the process of doing, so far the main thing i do in gardens, is try to fall in love. i think i like playing keyboards in gardens aswell. one thing i dont do in gardens is homework.
i reached this conclusion after not taking school serious from gade 4-12, not having a job for three years, smoking 2 years worth of pot, in 2 years, a year of comunity college, o.c.d., deciding to be a genious, becoming a genious, ego dissolution, ego return, art, music, walking around in a dreamlike town, deciding to quit pot, because i knew i would never be content, decided to quit science because i knew i would neve be content, and some meditation and lucid dreaming, as well. peace. …and skateboarding, and being realy fucking lonely, and listening to belle and sebastian, buck 65, the velvet underground, coco-rosie, the moldy peches, bjork, tilly and the wall, watching i.f.c., my dog, and a couple of realy good freinds…anyone i forgot, im sorry, but like i said i smoked 2 years worth of pot.
Its interesting to me how similar those individuals who come to this realization have experienced life in these forms. Especially that of drug use. I think it just goes to show that weve got to get the last of all this sense experience out of us, before we can completely move on. In grade school I wanted to live up to my sister, who was a genius. After obtaining my own feats, such as never missing a day of school. I realized all was in the mind, became super interested in the mind. Became a genius. Got caught up in the street life because academics was so rudimentary for me. Entered college, I smoked pot for 3 and a half years straight every day. Just recently stopped due to the same reasons, realizing that if I kept it up I wasnt going to get anything new. I decided I wanted my realizations to come while I wasnt high. And they are. Now I see all as equal, and Im sick of searching for experience. I sit in the house mostly, listen to all kinds of music, and enjoy the arts. Life is great!
Yeah, I have to point out that WHAT IS WRONG WITH WANTING TO BE LIKE GOD? Preachers do it. WHAT IS WRONG WITH KNOWING GOOD AND BAD? I try to teach my kids that very thing! Preachers jobs are to explain good and bad to us. Does anyone question anything anymore?
“we have got to get the last of the sense expierience out, before we can move on”- exactly. its almost like we have to become dirty wasteoids so we can appreciate being clean, again. If anyone wants a c.d. that will give them dejavu, buy “the boy with the arab strap, by Belle and Sebastian” such lyrics as “seven years of river walkways, seven months of staying up all night” “if the summers wasted how come i could feel so alive?” "when i get back to london, from outerspace, will i fall into place? “i met the cigarette girl, took a note of her charms, but no cigar.” “when it finally happened i cried, i always cry at endings”…to name a few…i havent cryd yet.
david redden—god doesnt want to be like god. (i could be wrong, of course.) when you try to learn everything, your not being like god, god is not power hungery. this is another hypothesis; but i think got wants (or wanted) equality. peace.