Don't Vote

You only condone and give justification to the system when you vote. Every time you vote you support the very things that you hate about politics, even if for you these are embodied only in the “other guy”. One vote will not make a difference anyways, so don’t even bother. But even if it did make a difference to the outcome whether or not you personally check a box on a piece of paper, which it doesn’t, voting would still be counter-productive unless you support the general practice of politicians and of the political system, which is to lie to you, steal your money, indebt you and your children, perpetuate a system which robs you of your political voice and substitutes for genuine and meaningful political influence a sham voting system which pretends there is any real difference at all between left and right, between lying moronic self-serving ideologue thief A or lying moronic self-serving ideologue thief B. Look at the little real difference between these fascist self-serving idiots, nothing ever changes except the face on the braindead empty suit in front of the teleprompter on CNN. When you vote you are pretending like you matter to the process, which you don’t, and you are pretending like these politicians whom you support care one bit about you or your life, which they do not.

Every vote that you cast regardless of which “side” you vote for is a vote for all sides, a vote for the entire entrenched capitalist-mass media-corporatocratic system of generational debt, wage-slave servitude, environmental destruction, psychological repression and institutional brainwashing. You want to make a real change? Then stand on principle and vote against both sides, against the whole steaming pile of you-know-what that runs and controls our lives - become a conscientious objector - refuse to vote, not out of apathy or disinterest but out of the desire to truly participate, out of the necessity to resist this two-sided coin of corruption, of a corporate-fascist coup d’etat that passes for a government. For the one who conscientiously objects and refuses to vote on principle in fact participates more genuinely in the political process than those who wait meekly in line like sheep to the slaughter to give a self-righteously ignorant thumbs-up to their would-be robber barons and despots.

This is precisely why I don’t vote for European MPs (MEPs). I don’t want to give legitimacy to an imposed superstate by helping get the voting proportion over 50% (it currently stands at something like 30%).

You might have had me if you’d said not voting was a vote against the entire entrenched bloated bureaucratic government. But if voting would help (us return to) capitalism. I’m gonna get all my friends to vote.

And as for institutional brainwashing, can’t believe you’re blaming government schools on capitalism.

IN ANY CASE, if nobody (who cares or is knowledgeable) votes, the tyrants only need a few good men of their own to vote. The vote is what they fear until they have enough power to rig/control/abolish elections–like about all the dictators in the world, like f’rinstance Hugo Fucking Chávez and his enabling henchman, Jimmy Carter.

We can do more than vote when it becomes necessary (Tea Party anyone), but it’s the vote that makes them pay attention to anything else you do. Once elections are trashed and power (read lethal force) is out of the hands of the people then it’s over. Just ask the Iranians, or the Venezuelans, or the Cubans, or…

I dont remember doing anything of the sort.

No, imagine if the percentage of voters dropped severely, to 10% of the entire eligeble voting population, to 5%, to less? Imagine the ramifications if the state media were forced to acknowledge that most Americans have absolutely no confidence in their politicians or political process. This is the only way to effect a real change away from this sham “two-party” system we have. If people continue to vote for A or B, then the system which A and B both support and perpetuate will never come to an end, will never be challenged or substantially called into question.

I have no idea what you are talking about here. I am not talking about these figures. I am talking about the fact that your being a voter only means you give credence and legitimacy to this entire process. It means that you are blinded into believing that there is a real difference between GOP and DFL.

If you vote for third parties that have no chance of winning, that is slightly different, assuming you can defend the argument that this party is substantially different from the prevailing and corrupt two-party political monopoly. But even so, voting Green or Constitutionalist might be sending a signal that you are dissatisfied with the current regimes, but this same signal is also sent by not voting. I dont know if you vote for DFL or GOP - if you do, then this post of mine applies to you, and you are responsible for perpetuating this system. If, however, you vote for some other party which actually wants to take us away from this harmful sham paradigm that we are in (I personally know of no such party, however), and you can defend that the candidate of this party is actually working against the two-party system and against all of the above-mentioned harms that I associate with the political process and government in general, then this post does not apply to you, and you are not a part of the problem. But thus far, I have no reason to think that you are personally of this second group that I define here. But I could be wrong. So who do you vote for in elections, which party do you support with your vote?

Standing around with anti-Obama signs and quotes from the founding fathers, listening to speakers like Glenn Beck talk about some sensationalist crap that has no relevance to anything that is happening in the real world is not “doing more”. It is being a sheeple, just like when you stand obediently in line and cast your vote for fascist A or fascist B.

If people already have no political power, then yes elections are meaningless, and when you take away elections they do not really have any other option open to them. But America is not like Iran, or Venezuela, or Cuba… I see these sorts of comparisons all the time, and they are not applicable. America is wholly different than these, if the voting population dropped significantly then the country would literally “wake up” and see that we have a government that no one wants. We do not live under a military or communist regime which will silence us with military police if we speak up. Your comparing us to these other countries is meaningless here. If Americans changed their voting habits it would have a significant impact on the political process. If the sham and false illusion of legitimacy (the multitides of people who vote for them) which the DFL and GOP use to cement their positions of power were to disappear, there would be no ground for them to continue to stand on. Something new would have to emerge.

Chavez has far more popular support than any US president in my lifetime, and was contested and won more elections and referenda than any other currently sitting national leader.

You may not like the guy, or his politics, but he’s about as democratically elected as leaders get in this world.

The election was rigged and Carter “certified” it.

What did Carter have to do with it?

Ask and ye shall receive (Jimmy Carter never met a dictator he didn’t like. There’s plenty more than is here, like with Kim Jung Il and Castro. But what the hay, it won him the Nobel Peace Prize to go along with those awarded Mikhail Gorbachev, Yasser Arafat, Kofi Annan, Al Gore and the discredited International Panel on Climate Change [IPCC], and lest we forget the superhuman accomplishments of our current President his very first year in office, Barrack Hussein Obama–Mmmmm, Mmmmm, Mmmmm. They’re jokes and it’s a crock):

Jimmy Carter: The Worst Ex-President in History
By Jack Kinsella - Omega Letter Editor

During his four years in the White House, he presided over the worst economic downturn since World War II, allowed a bunch of thugs to seize our embassy and our citizens, and supported Philippine dictator Fernando Marcos, Pakistani General Zia al Huq, Saudi King Faud and many other dictators. But Jimmy Carter was a much better president than he is an ex-president.

In fact, Jimmy Carter holds the hands-down record for being the worst ex-president the United States has ever known. His post-presidential meddling in foreign affairs has cost America dearly, both in terms of international credibility and international prestige.

He defied US law by visiting Cuba, even addressing the Cuban public and handing Castro a huge propaganda victory. He oversaw the elections in Haiti, against the expressed wishes of the Clinton administration. A coup followed.

Carter once described Yugoslav strongman Marshal Josef Tito as “a man who believes in human rights.” Regarding North Korea’s dearly departed Kim Il-Sung, Carter found him “vigorous, intelligent, surprisingly well-informed about the technical issues, and in charge of the decisions about this country,” adding “I don’t see that [North Koreans] are an outlaw nation.”

He was similarly generous regarding Manuel Noriega, Romanian dictator Nicolai Ceaucescu and, of course, Yasser Arafat. He said of Ceausescu and himself, “Our goals are the same: to have a just system of economics and politics . . . We believe in enhancing human rights.”

Virtually all of the humanitarian activities of the Carter Foundation abroad have been in direct opposition to US foreign policy. Carter called Bush’s description of Iran, Iraq and North Korea as an “axis of evil” was "overly simplistic and counterproductive.”

Added the man who was once attacked by a rabbit, “I think it will take years before we can repair the damage done by that statement.”

His most recent adventure may be partly behind the predicted $3.00 per gallon analysts say we’ll be paying for gas by year’s end. Jimmy Carter went to Venezuela to ‘monitor’ that country’s effort to recall President Hugo Chavez.

In 1992, a band of army officers led by Lt. Col. Hugo Chávez Frías attempted to overthrow President Carlos Andrés Pérez. Although court-martialed and jailed, Chávez emerged a hero.

In 1998, he was elected president on promises to clean out corruption and reduce poverty. Once in office, Chávez promoted a new consitution to consolidate his powers and began to constrain the business community, civil society, and rival politicians.

As a presidential candidate, Hugo Chávez campaigned against the “savage capitalism” of the United States. On August 10, 2000, he became the first foreign leader to visit Saddam Hussein since the Gulf War, and he allegedly aided Afghanistan’s Taliban government following the September 11, 2001, attack on the United States.

At the same time, Chávez said that Cuba and Venezuela were “called upon to be a spearhead and summon other nations and governments” to fight free market capitalism.

Venezuela is also one of the countries upon which the United States is dependent for oil, and has been since the US first began relying on imported oil supplies back in 1948.

Besides supplying the United States with 1.5 million barrels of oil a day, Venezuela provides most of the petroleum consumed by U.S. allies in the Caribbean and Central America.

Regional leaders know that opposing Chávez in any significant fashion could result in less favorable sales terms or cuts in deliveries.

In September 2003, President Chávez accused the Dominican Republic of harboring Venezuelans–like former President Carlos Andrés Pérez–who allegedly might conspire against his government. Chavez then stopped oil deliveries, prompting a temporary energy crisis while Dominican officials scrambled for new suppliers.

From the perspective of American economic interests, not to mention homeland security issues, Hugo Chavez is a very bad man to have in the neighborhood. And, thanks to Jimmy Carter, Chavez isn’t going away anytime soon.

[u]Venezuela’s opposition party finally forced a recall election, with opinion polls showing that voters favored his recall by a margin of more than 2 to 1.

When there were questions about possible vote tampering by the Chavez side, the opposition called for election monitors. Chavez agreed to let Jimmy Carter oversee the election, and the Carter Center headed for Caracas.

Under Jimmy Carter’s watchful eye, Hugo Chavez defeated the recall attempt by a wide margin – reflecting almost a mirror-image of the opinion polls.

While two out of three Venzuelans polled before the election wanted Chavez out, when the ballots were counted, Chavez was declared the winner by an almost exact opposite margin. “About 58 percent said ‘no’ to a recall, while 42 percent said ‘yes,’” wrote the Washington Post.

Carter ignored a press release from the polling firm Penn, Schoen & Berland Assoc. that reported, “Exit Poll Results Show Major Defeat for Chavez.” The release, dated 7:30 p.m. on election day, said, “With Venezuela’s voting set to end at 8 p.m. EST according to election officials, final exit poll results from Penn, Schoen & Berland Associates, an independent New York-based polling firm, show a major victory for the ‘Yes’ movement, defeating Chavez in the Venezuela presidential recall referendum.”

One of the most effective ways to monitor the fairness of an election is to employ the use of exit polls. In a nutshell, here’s how exit polls work. After somebody has finished voting, a pollster will ask them how they voted. In emerging democracies, about 90% of voters participate.

By contrast, in America, where exit polls are widely used to call elections before the votes are all counted, less than 40% of voters participate.

Statistically, exit polls should mirror the actual vote, within a relatively thin margin of error.

The margin of error between Carter’s certified fair-and-square ballots and the independent exit poll results constituted a swing of almost forty points – a statistical impossibility. Chavez counted on Carter leaning his way – Carter’s history of promoting anti-American dictators is no secret.

As Stephen Hayward noted in a column at Front Page, “among his complex motivations is his determination to override American foreign policy when it suits him.”

Indeed, Carter’s penchant for interfering in US foreign policy is so well known it won him a Nobel Prize. Jimmy Carter will go down in history as the first US ex-president ever to be awarded a Nobel Prize for the sole purpose of conveying an insult to his country from the Nobel committee.

Gunnar Berge, chairman of the five-member committee, told reporters that giving the Peace Prize to Carter “must also be seen as criticism of the line the current U.S. administration has taken on Iraq … It’s a kick in the leg to all that follow the same line as the United States.”

(“How can we REALLY show how much we hate the Americans? I know! Let’s give a Nobel Prize to Jimmy Carter!”)

Once Chavez had stolen the election and Jimmy Carter certified the results, certain American critics (pretty much anybody with a brain) started questioning whether or not Jimmy Carter had just sold American interests down the river – again.

Carter hit back in a Wall Street Journal Opinion piece, writing;

“We are familiar with potential fraudulent techniques and how to obtain a close approximation to the actual results to assure accuracy.”

Having established that Jimmy Carter is far too savvy to be conned by a mere thug like Chavez, Carter then dismissed the results of the exit polls, writing;

“During the voting day, opposition leaders claimed to have exit-poll data showing the government losing by 20 percentage points, and this erroneous information was distributed widely.”

Well, that’s that! The New York pollsters ‘widely distributed erroneous information’ – Hugo Chavez won fair and square. Jimmy Carter says so.

Penn Schoen evidently must have cheated, although it is a reputable New York polling firm with a 20 year track record, including working for Bill Clinton in 1996, Hillary Rodham Clinton in 2001, Michael Bloomberg in 2001 and many other national political campaigns.

Why would it risk its hard-won professional reputation over an election in Venezuela? Carter doesn’t explain.

Hugo Chavez is bad news from the perspective of US national security. He is bad news from the perspective of homeland security. He is bad news from the perspective of US dependence of foreign oil. And he is bad news for America’s economic security.

Which makes Hugo Chavez good news from the perspective of the worst ex-president in US history.[/u]

Excerpted from the Omega Letter Daily Intelligence Digest, Volume:35: Issue 26

This isnt really a topic about former US presidents… please stay on topic.

Balls to staying on topic.

A lot of the argument made there is based on Carter having visited places after he was president, and on the assumption this somehow made it easier for those places to continue resisting American interests. Furthermore, the mentality is that this resistance somehow constitutes a security threat to the United States, and thus Carter himself is a security risk.

While this is in fact the mentality a lot of people in the US intelligence services, State Department and the Pentagon actually have, it is bullshit. Everyone knows that if the US wanted to overthrow Cuba militarily, it could. It’s a tiny island off the coast of Florida with no ballistic missile capacity, a miniscule airforce and though it has a reasonable sized conventional land army you just park your ship a couple of miles offshore and bomb the Communism out of them. The reason the US does not do this is because of what Cuba represents historically, in terms of the Bay of Pigs and the Missile ‘Crisis’. The world firmly reacted to the Bay of Pigs by declaring the invasion the act of a bully.

Venezuela is much the same story. The Venezuelan military capacity is such that if the US wanted to just blast the shit out of them they could do so. However, they can’t do that, or at least not without an excuse that extends beyond labelling Chavez a dictator and complaining that he won’t let the country be raped by American oil companies. I suppose they could blame Chavez for the next American who flies a plane into a building.

Now, I’m no great fan of Chavez, and have no real idea if there was or wasn’t vote-tampering going on but given the quality of US elections it’s a bit rich to be criticising those of other nations. Looked at logically, pretty much all elections are a farce. And I wouldn’t take the word of a New York polling firm in Venezuela to mean anything significant.

Finally, looking at the site you’ve taken that article from it appears to be in essence the blog of a Christian fundamentalist. Not that I’m writing it off because of that, but they are not exactly a group known for their careful scrutiny of facts, resistance to prejudice and sound, careful judgement.

So you imply that America is imperialist and then use Cuba and Venezuela as examples of our not being imperialist. You don’t know if the election was rigged or not, yet you dismiss the article because it might be from a fundamentalist Christian site, even though the facts it contains are independently verifiable and Carter’s credibility is in the toilet. You don’t know, yet you judge.

Last Man, this really isn’t off topic. The issue is the vote and whether it represents power or not, or if it’s power can be overridden by election tampering. Your argument is not with the vote. The problem is voter apathy and ignorance/emotion over reason [b][1]. Nothing is achieved by letting despots win through default as you suggest, or through their corruption of elections.


  1. /b ↩︎

My argument is exactly with voting. It has nothing to do with whether this or that president or political party is incompetent or corrupt. Voting is irrelevant to effect any genuine political change, you do not matter as a voter, your one vote will never change anything. All you do is stand meekly like a sheep to the slaughter while you go vote, its pathetic really, seeing all those ignorant self-righteous morons waiting patiently in line, fucking prisoners, each one paying homage to a system that casts you in chains and irons, body mind and soul. Buy into the hype, hate one politician and love another, feel your emotions soar or rage whenever they regurgitate another pre-scripted sound bite for you, waste your life thinking you are anything but a useless fucking eater, a brainless mouth, to these fascists. Pathetic, its all just pathetic. And you sit here and try to prove how much of an asshole some former US president was, like it even matters. It doesnt change anything. They are all assholes, they are all corrupt. You think they would even have a chance of getting anywhere near that position if they were not? Wake up. Or dont, as you prefer. Remain like the silent unthinking masses if you wish, condition yourself to your prison cell, absorb the propaganda, drink it down like it actually has anything to do with real life at all. Watch a news broadcast, read an article about how Carter did this and that with some communist thug, smile gloatingly as you post your evidence here trying to preach and be a hero for your political agenda, like some saint, some rebel for truth and liberty and freedom. It doesnt matter, really it just doesnt matter. It isnt real. This is not life. It is what you blind yourself with so you dont have to live. Its what everyone does, every day of their lives.

I said this topic is not about former presidents. I dont want to see that crap here. Read my original post. It has nothing to do with that. It is about voting. Period. You vote, you show your support for this fucking fascist capitalist system of enslavement, this invisible prison and silent executioner, and you actually think that your vote even matters anyways. It doesnt. Stay on topic. Carter or any other president and their douchebaggery is utterly and completely irrelevant here. We get it. They are assholes. Move on. Learn to see the bigger picture.

You criticize, but you don’t offer an alternative–I think, because you don’t have one, or, and, because you know there isn’t one.

No, America is imperialist. No implication necessary, you can see America’s imperialism in every aspect of their foreign policy.

I’m certainly not going to take the word of a New York ‘independent’ polling company as true, just as I don’t take Carter’s word as true.

Coming from the person who rubbishes Carter for simply visiting Castro. Does that mean Kissinger’s efforts at ‘beisbol diplomacy’ were a massive threat to US National Security? Does that mean Bill Moyers, who interviewed Castro in 1977, is a traitor and a Communist/terrorist?

Your need to have what you consider to be a viable “alternative” is precisely what limits and confines your thinking, what keeps your mind in chains.

I do not need to formulate an alternative in order to critique and see things for what they are - if it is the case that there are no easy or practical alternatives within the current mindset and paradigm of the system as it exists now, then it would be a falsehood to look for alternatives at the expense of seeing things the way that they truly are. It is your pragmatism, your attachment and emotional need to feel powerful and to feel like you matter, that limit your thinking here.

However, beside that point, I did offer an alternative - my alternative was, imagine what would happen if the percentage of people who vote relative to how many potentially could vote dropped to 5%, or less? What do you think would happen to our sham system if it lost the appearance of legitimacy that you and other ideologue voters give to it?

But regardless of this alternative, this possible way of reforming the system in the long term, one does not need to present an alternative solution to see the problems with the current way. In fact psychologically speaking, and I would suggest you truly pay attention to this, it is the egotistical need to feel like you matter, to feel like a hero for a cause, in otherwords the need to have “alternative solutions”, which is why you are blinded by the very systems that you reside within. Unless you can truly think outside of the box and separate yourself from the paradigmatic perspectives you think with, you will never be able to see, understand or (much less) truly critique those perspectives. . . in otherwords, because aspects and premises of the current mindset and perspective are inseparable from your very foundations of thought, from your most deeply-held beliefs, you will never be able to ascertain a space exterior or at the expense of these assumptions in order to effect a genuine criticism and understanding of these things.

If you think from within a conceptual closed circle, then seeing the entirety of the circle itself, much less seeing relations between what is within and outside of this circle, is completely impossible - thus, you become a slave to your ideas and beliefs, as you are unable to question or even understand them at all.

I’d most likely avoid voting if I lived in USA. I am Norwegian though, and Norway is somewhat more democratic even if it still qualifies for most of your justified accusations(just to a lesser extent). You see, we have many political parties, among them FRP, which is essentially the idiot-party, bearing many resemblances to both US parties. Our other parties actually still have some meaningful differences, though I am sure it’s just a matter of time before that’s over. FRP are like used car-salesmen; a political vegetable market, where every conflicting good may be had if they are voted for. Sadly the idiots in Norway are many, so this party has a lot of support, but not as of yet enough to be in government. Their policies are very similar to the US Republican party(their actual policies that is, not the bullshit they serve to potential voters, who ironically tend to belong to the groups of people who would suffer worst if FRP got into power), and could in many ways be described as fascist. So I give my vote to whoever I believe will give us the greatest chance of an FRP-free government.

Ah yes, but in doing this you are using voting in order to send the “lesser of two evils” into power - it is precisely this attitude which renders voting harmful and self-destructive. Whenever one votes for any candidate or party which he would not truly like to win based on what they are themselves, but would rather see them win than the other guy, he has sold out his vote and the entire system - he has put it on track to a slow collapse, a pendulum swing back and forth that takes the government a little further down the wrong directions each step of the way. This is because all that needs to happen is you are presented with two (or more) undesirable (bad) choices, and as long as you vote for one, regardless of how good or bad it might be in relation to the others, you are nonetheless voting for a bad choice every time. Thus government becomes bad over time, no matter what your “noble” intentions might be.

The only legitimate way to vote, the only rational and consistent way, is to only vote for individuals or parties which you desire to win based only on their own merit and not in relation to anyone else. No sane or reasonable person could convince themselves, rationalize to themselves the fact that they are voting for someone that they do not truly support - just consider for a moment the true idiocy and contradictive absurdity of voting for someone you do not really want to gain power: it is in this way that voting is made useless and ineffectual.

Someone shows you an idiot and says to you, “Will you vote for this guy for government?” and you say, “Of course not!” But then they say, “Well look at this other idiot over here, hes even worse!” Now somehow you decide to vote for the first guy? Pathetic and irrational. Voting is about voting for something, not against something else - because there will always be other “something elses”, always plenty of idiot others to vote “against”, and so voting in the negative in this way is self-contradictory and irrational and defeats the entire purpose of voting to begin with, which is to lend your support to someone/party which you truly do support.

I know what you are saying and I agree with you, but the difference between Norway and USA is that the difference between the parties are still very real. I mean, given the choice between Republicans and Democrats, the difference seems small, but if someone gave you the choice between Churchill and Hitler, the situation changes. A Norway ruled by FRP would have very significant, damaging consequences, and so I am willing to participate in voting for practical reasons. The chances of overthrowing the system seems so small that I prefer doing what I can to keep “Hitler” out.

Why I don’t vote:

  1. The government does nothing more for me if I do vote than if I don’t vote.
  2. If you add or subtract one vote from either side, the results won’t be any different.
  3. They put the voting in places that are out of my way. Put the voting locations in supermarkets, post offices, shopping malls, etc - places people go anyway - rather than the clubhouse of some neighborhood trailer park which you have trouble finding.
  4. Establish a wider time frame in which you can vote. What’s with this one day voting? What if Tuesday is your busy day during which you take an evening class or perhaps go to yoga. Why doesn’t the voting span over a period of one or two months?
  5. Don’t release any results until after all the votes are in.

Fair enough. On the local level, though, one vote could matter.

Again, local levels good be different. Besides, in the 2000 Presidential Election, Florida wasn’t that far away from one vote making the difference. Only a few hundred people were the difference there.

Fair enough.

Fill out an absentee ballot if your jurisdiction will allow them for people who aren’t…um…really absent.

Why not? That would kill TV ratings and I don’t see how it would affect you, whoever is going to win is going to win either way.