Don't you think this world is dumb for philosophy?

What exactly do you do with a philosophy degree? Become a philosophy professor so that others get philosophy degrees?

So the president that controls 1100 nuclear weapons requires no counsel with a philosopher because . . . because that’s not important when you command the tools to destroy the world??

Honestly, why do we kid ourselves. We putter around with philosophy in our funny little barely xhtml-based forums. Do we honestly think this is as big as it was supposed to be?

Wouldn’t you imagine a more effective political scheme where Philosophy takes the forefront? It has no meaning because it has no authority.

Fuck the modern political scheme and fuck “reform.” Reform isn’t what it should mean. It should be struck down in a fiery storm and rehashed anew with a completely reinvented form of governance- with philosophy at its core.

While I’m dreaming impossible things I would like a baby elephant.

Very valid points.

I have been of the view for a while now that philosophy must engage more in normative ethics/politics and try and enforce it. Otherwise, what really is the point of being a hermit who has fathomed how many angels can dance on a pin head? So he is a genius, but no one cares. Sure, this might be able to impress the girls and a few undergrads, but in the big scheme of things, it doesn’t mean a thing.

What is needed is a movement of extremely arrogant but intelligent people who want to stamp their will onto society.
Nothing inflames people’s passions like morality, whether it’s for or against a principle. At least in moral points of view we see people actually care about something.

In time this is what I am going to do. I just need to find a group of like minded people. But it’s hard when most people couldn’t be bothered to think beyond next week with their hedonistic lifestyles.

It’s just an interesting pastime. What’s wrong with that? Who here has claimed that they believe ILP will change the world?

The American government already has philosophy at its core. The American constituition is probably the world’s best example of philosophical principles becoming part of ordinary government (there are more examples - like the Euopean court of Human Rights and Communist governments around the globe).

Why don’t you move to Burma?

Yeah, let’s just all hold hands and repress all thoughts that might offend people.

You said, basically, you wanted to live in an oligarchy where elites oppose thier will on the masses.

I was merely pointing out that if thats actually what you want, you have options.

The constitution is not a philosophical document. It is a legal document . . . one which has been circumvented by at least 2/3 by the way with modern illegal American laws. If you’re saying it’s a good set of laws, compared with a lot of previous ones, inspired by a lot of philosophical argument, yes it is. Too bad it’s becoming hardly recognized. After the first 8 amendments things turn to shit.

And yes it is a pastime. Why should philosophy be a pastime? That’s all it is. I hope we get smarter terrorists than Muslims. Terrorists for philosophy. Now that would be something novel!! :smiley:

…Spoken like someone whose never actually met a philosopher! (—Unreliable, self-absorbed, usually late, awkwardly self-conscious, absent-minded, indecisive, detached, impractical and otherwise unemployable crooked-back creatures they are, for the most part. It’s like a job hazard.).

…And btw, WHICH PHILOSOPHY!?!

I got a bit turned off by Plato’s Republic…you know; a strong caste society where they take people’s kids away to organize them into which roles they’re suited for. And there’s no real need to debate anything or get other’s views…because either they’re wrong about something, or they agree with the King/rulers. Plato’s not the worst, though—not by a mile.

There are lots of enthusiastic amateur scientist and astronomers on internet forums who aren’t curing cancer or discovering new galaxies.

Worked really well for Marxism and the French Revolution, after all. The general problem with starting from first philosophical principles is that you end up with unworkable bullshit that people stick to because it’s “pure reason” and in the meantime a lot of other people get killed to satisfy that religious impulse.

You must have missed the whole “politics” thing that currently occupies those people’s time.

You seem to be referring to the “political correctness” bugbear. Which is in no small part an issue because arrogant and intelligent people have imposed it on the political dialogue, and which is largely derived from left-wing continental european philosophy.

My suspicion is that your assumption is that intelligent people would share your politics. If that’s the case, you’d at least qualify for the group on grounds of arrogance.

If you want to set up a government based on philosophy, you are going to have to produce legal documents based on philosophical arguments. This is what the American constitution is.

(Can I add that I made no claim that it was a good set of laws, just that it has its basis in philosophy)

Because its fun, and its productive. Why shouldn’t it be a pastime to some people? Why must it always be revolutionary?

So, you advocate people commiting mass murders to defend thier philosophy. There’s nothing novel about this approach - it’s essentially what Islamic terrorists are doing already. Pol Pot, Stalin and Hitler all allowed thier philosophy to justify mass murder too. At least now we know your political views - I wonder how many votes you’ll be getting?

Philosophy is now only a popularity contest for the mindless hordes of human drones seeking some kind of innocuous fulfilment to take away the pain of a pointless existence.

What needs to be done in the world is already apparent, simply by projecting the past into the future one comes to knowledge, even though it is horrifying to the liberal sheep mind: the colonization of other worlds and the enslavement of their species for our own purposes - inevitably there will be wars against alien races - the destruction of a significant proportion of what is laughably termed the ‘human race’ so that the threats to our continued evolution are diminished, and the development of technologies that will increase our life span into the thousands of years and free us from disease.

You need to team up with LT. Nothing gets done without teamwork.

Extremely few philosophers are made of courage. What makes anyone think they would find one on an internet forum?

Personally, I don’t expect to find any professional or full time philosphers on an internet forum at all. Only hobbyists and undergrads (one or two exceptions exist here, but they were unexpected).

It’s an internet forum. People likely to have serious impact on philosophy in general are unlikely to be posting thier ideas on ILP.

Just like when I enter the local half marathon, I don’t expect Paula Radcliffe to be competing. And I when I go to the local poetry group, I don’t expect to meet the next poet laureate.

That’s religion, and religion is nothing more than philosophy for the masses. In order to make a difference in the world, a certain philosophy must have the power to do so, and in order to have power it must borrow it from somewhere - be it from an individual of strong will and authority or from the multitude through flattering. I can’t think of a single example where one man’s philosophy outlived it’s creator, regardless of his will and authority, without it being converted into something mediocre and lowly (popular), which leads me to conclusion that the only “philosophy” that CAN rule the world is religion.
Just like most of you here i’m a hobbyist philosopher, but i know that all of my epiphanies and philosophising will die with me and that it would be foolish of me to expect that i could change things in the long run through philosophy alone. The only thing i can get from it is personal satisfaction and not much more than that…

Politics is philosophy in action. What to do, why, how, when and where.

A common sin of the eye is to see only what it was expecting.
A common sin of the mind is to deny the blindness of the eye.

Would you know a new era philosopher if you met one?
Who respects what a man says if he can’t point to it in a book?
By what do you gauge “true philosophizing”?

This is the only reality I have, the world as it is today. The ultimate philosophy that man has invented has absolutely no relationship whatsoever with the reality of this world. As long as you are seeking, searching, and wanting to understand that reality (which you call “ultimate philosophy,” or call it by whatever name you like), it will not be possible for you to come to terms with the reality of the world exactly the way it is. So, anything you do to escape from the reality of this world will make it difficult for you to live in harmony with the things around you.

We have an idea of harmony. How to live at peace with yourself – that’s an idea. There is an extraordinary peace that is there already. What makes it difficult for you to live at peace with yourself is the creation of the idea of what you call “peace,” which is totally unrelated to the harmonious functioning that can be already there inside you …

When you free yourself from the burden of reaching out there to grasp, to experience, and to be in an ultimate philosophical reality, then you will find that it is difficult to understand the reality of anything. You will find that you have no way of experiencing the reality of anything, but at least you will not be living in a world of illusions. You will accept that there is nothing, nothing that you can do to experience the reality of anything, except the reality that is imposed on us by the society. We have to accept the reality as it is imposed on us by the society because it is very essential for us to function in this world intelligently and sanely. If we don’t accept that reality, we are lost.

So we have to accept the reality as it is imposed on us by the culture, by society or whatever you want to call it, and at the same time understand that there is nothing that we can do to experience the reality of anything. Then you will not be in conflict with the society, and the demand to be something other than what you are will also come to an end.

You are under the impression that the majority here sees this forum, and the discussions herein, as the extent of “philosophy”?

Philosophy is not an appeal to authority, nor does it really command any such appeal. Philosophy is something that thinkers are attracted to, not something to be imposed on the masses. The “love of wisdom” is not mandatory, in other words. Some just have no interest in philosophy and some others can’t grasp or deal with it.

You realize a ‘movement’ like this can take hundreds of years to hash out, right? I don’t think the result would be “philosophy” as we know it either. It would likely become some new contextual hybrid, of sorts – a “revolutionary” philosophy.

I wouldn’t know the new philsophy era if it hit me in the face. Neither would you. We’re amuteurs, with a very trivial amount of knowledge compared to someone who’s made it through to proffessional sphere (every influtential philospher in history was an influential acacdemic, you and me are not). So what? Get over it. If you think your viewpoint on ILP are the future of philosophy, well,thats just silly.

If we were part of an intellgicia elite, we woyuldn’t need to plead our cases on internet forums. We’d be busy dominating the world. But actually, we’re all just average joe’s with a penchant for philosophy. That’s not a bad thing, its just how it is. Get used to it.

Not that my original post should be taken all that seriously. But I still don’t think particular kinds of philosophies should remain constitutionally passive. Yes, I agree it would be arrogant to go create a military and say “these are philosopher soldiers” with a pseudo-scientiffic thumbs up and a USO show. My point is moreso this . . .

(Point) A Bill doesn’t need the review from any graduate whatsoever from someone like a logician or an ethicist in order to pass. (/point)

This is basically what the American constitution says you need in order for a bill to pass . . . you need to have it approved by a board of congress, whom are chosen by officials elected by a majority of resident voters, except when the supreme court says otherwise . . .

Even if a bill was truly the result of the majority of its peoples, there is nobody specifically trained in regards to sound reasoning to say this has sound reasoning. Lawyers . . . now lawyers. they have a tremendous say in what bills get passed. Their wording of course is entirely diplomatic and exquisitely detailed specification . . . but they don’t have to care about anything past the buck. Lawyers have no ethics. Their job is to win.

I don’t think it’s so preposterous to consider a law that someone with a degree in philosophy should be required to at least look at the damn thing before it goes into power. “Philosopher kings” as Plato put it . . . but not kings. Just stewards.

The good news is that yes, the idea of republics was envisioned by the father of philosophy, so we can’t complain that it takes no power in the real world. Just saying it must retain that power in order for politics to retain nobility. And no philosophy is not nobility, but one philosopher amongst the lawyers wouldn’t hurt. That or require every law student to have a degree in philosoophy . . . students on their mortgage-sized loans will probably kill me.

Excellent feedback, by the way.

Not much. But then degrees are not for anything, except the sordid matter of getting jobs. What is philosophy useful for? What is useful? One has to philosophise just to answer the question.

The pragmatic conclusion is got from what universities provide, those bodies having to respond to demand. They provide popular (in the best sense of the word) courses in Philosophy, Politics and Economics, which is what ‘leaders’ of society, whether actual politicians or not, often find useful subjects to master. Now what all of these three subjects have in common is the contribution of history; and together they often achieve a more fruitful understanding of history, in a more dynamic way, than actual history courses do. The politics of any one state at any one time is always formed by its past. Economics, itself a powerful factor in politics, is always based on the experience of the past. Philosophers have undoubtedly influenced the past, even if they don’t, much, now.

And that, imv, is the clue. There are those who say that philosophy is dead. The evidence imv is seen all around us, in the nihilism of modern art, whether visual, musical or literary; and philosophy, or now, it’s absence, has always been a formative factor in art, even in popular novels. One might say that visual art came to a halt with, say, Picasso’s Guernica, music with, say, Stockhausen’s Kontakte, or perhaps Schoenberg’s Gurre-lieder, and literature with some similarly significant works in whatever language and genre one is considering. Two world wars of course had something to do with it. My own view is that Sartre consummated philosophy, and nobody will ever gainsay him. But if philosophers really now have nothing to say, they are like everyone else, except perhaps hopeful Marxists, or the biologists who say “Doom, doom!”

Though they both may be wrong, of course.