Doors closing around US

Sovereignty: The Fences Between Us
Wealth: Con Artists At the Central Banks
Now You Need Permission to Exit or Enter the Country?

Forget no-fly lists. If Uncle Sam gets its way, beginning on Jan. 14, 2007, we’ll all be on no-fly lists, unless the government gives us permission to leave-or re-enter-the United States.

The U.S. Department of Homeland Security (HSA) has proposed that all
airlines, cruise lines-even fishing boats-be required to obtain clearance
for each passenger they propose taking into or out of the United States.

It doesn’t matter if you have a U.S. passport-a travel document that now, absent a court order to the contrary, gives you a virtually unqualified right to enter or leave the United States, any time you want. When the DHS system comes into effect next January, if the agency says no to a clearance request, or doesn’t answer the request at all, you won’t be permitted to enter-or leave-the United States.

Consider what might happen if you’re a U.S. passport holder on assignment in a country like Saudi Arabia. Your visa is about to expire, so you board your flight back to the United States. But wait! You can’t get on, because you don’t have permission from the HSA. Saudi immigration officials are on hand to escort you to a squalid detention center, where you and others who are now effectively stateless persons are detained, potentially indefinitely, until their immigration status is sorted out.

Why might the HSA deny you permission to leave-or enter-the United States? No one knows, because the entire clearance procedure would be an administrative determination made secretly, with no right of appeal.
Naturally, the decision would be made without a warrant, without probable
cause and without even any particular degree of suspicion. Basically, if the HSA decides it doesn’t like you, you’re a prisoner-either outside, or
inside, the United States, whether or not you hold a U.S. passport.

The U.S. Supreme Court has long recognized there is a constitutional right to travel internationally. Indeed, it has declared that the right to travel is “a virtually unconditional personal right.” The United States has also signed treaties guaranteeing freedom of travel. So if these regulations do go into effect, you can expect a lengthy court battle, both nationally and internationally.

Think this can’t happen? Think againit’s ALREADY happening. Earlier this
year, HSA forbade airlines from transporting an 18-year-old native-born U.S. citizen, back to the United States. The prohibition lasted nearly six months until it was finally lifted a few weeks ago.

Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union are two countries in recent history that didn’t allow their citizens to travel abroad without permission. If these
regulations go into effect, you can add the United States to this list.

For more information on this proposed regulation, see
hasbrouck.org/IDP/IDP-APIS-comments.pdf .

A

Yep, gobbo and I are certainly conspiracy nuts. Both of
us have tried to point out this administration drive
to a dictatorship. Just because you imagine it, doesn’t mean
it can’t be done, it just means you have a limited imagination.
Another reason to vote Democratic this tues.

Kropotkin

This is but one of the stupidities of our current administration. The problem goes all the way back to the lax rules governing the issuance of passports, which includes previous administrations both liberal and conservative. So Bush and company didn’t create the problem, but their unilateral “solution” doesn’t provide an adequate answer either. I suspect that the first of the year is going to see a roll-back of a lot of executive powers, including the necessity of addressing this particular issue. This isn’t to say that the same “freedoms” of the past will be repeated, because the real problem has been the neglectful ease in obtaining passports that will have to be tightened in some respects. But there will definitely be congressional and judicial modification of some of the more stupid regulations currently being put in place by our less than thoughtful administration.

Hey count me in. I just don’t believe it will be much better with a Democratic leadership since they’re just different fronts for the Zionist/Xtian/Corporate mafia.

.

Peter Kropotkin: Yep, gobbo and I are certainly conspiracy nuts. Both of us have tried to point out this administration drive
to a dictatorship."

KM: Hey count me in. I just don’t believe it will be much better with a Democratic leadership since they’re just different fronts for the Zionist/Xtian/Corporate mafia.

K: I do not know how old you are, but life was a whole lot
better under clinton. Life was better under Reagan (and I hate
the gipper)You have to go back to Nixon’s last term to
get such collectively bad living experience.

Kropotkin

I was a wetback. I’ll find a way out if I need to.
If anything that Gobbo says starts to come true, you can look for me in some third world country (or several).

-Thirst

True, but in fairness, that was a different century. The Zionists didn’t have as many of their double agents in so many powerful positions as they do today, the right wing Xtian crusaders were only half way through their 20 year plan to build a power base that no president could refuse and the corporations (including the military industrial complex) have become even more powerful and more dominant in the U.S. political scene and across the globe.

Whoever’s in power has to satisfy these big 3 before they even consider what’s right for the little people who suppose to run the country.

AND CLINTON DIDN’T HAVE A 911 WHERE ALL 3 WOULD CLAIMER FOR POWER, CONTROL AND REVENGE

.

thirst,

I think this only involves legal entry/exit. Everyone knows that the borders are as porous as a sieve.

None of my business, but did you pick up RA status or citizenship?

I’m a citizen. I didn’t get much choice in that because my citizenship was automatic through my mother.

-Thirst

thirst,

I thought I remembered that. So you’re legal as an eagle. I really don’t think this proposed change will last very long, and anyone with any smarts will move around as they see fit anyway. I think the pendulum has swung as far as it can, and will begin swinging back the other way.

Oops! It just dawned on me: Peter will have to change sides now…

tentative:thirst,

I thought I remembered that. So you’re legal as an eagle. I really don’t think this proposed change will last very long, and anyone with any smarts will move around as they see fit anyway. I think the pendulum has swung as far as it can, and will begin swinging back the other way.

Oops! It just dawned on me: Peter will have to change sides now…

K: nonsense. I will always be on the side of freedom and liberty,
and on the side of the people.

[size=200]YAH FREEDOM[/size]

Kropotkin

But Peter,

Freedom and liberty for which group of people? The rich biches or the rest of us schmucks? :wink:

tentative: But Peter,
Freedom and liberty for which group of people? The rich biches or the rest of us schmucks? :wink:

K: I am a schmuck. UMMMM, somehow that didn’t come
out right. Anyway, hurrah schmucks.

Kropotkin

Imp, what is your take on this?

we have never been allowed to travel abroad without permission. what do you think passports and customs officials do in the first place?

-Imp

Pete was right in the other thread. These answers are getting weak, even for your usual bs. Keep thinkin…

Imp’s seeing the light – finally!

Keep walkin towards it!

I got your light.

-Imp

We both know the difference between a translucent government and one which operates totally in secret.

If you don’t… I’m sure you’ll see ‘the light’ while you’re cracking puns to the brainwashed prison guards as your ass rots in jail with you wondering what it is exactly you did wrong.

Was it cause you talked to me too much on the net? Was it because… your screen name sounds too ‘Anti-American’?

These will be the questions you ask…

Or will it simply be that, ironically, your militant attitude (even towards “democRATS”) made the government nervous, because they can’t allow their citizens to obtain much firepower lest we try to perform a coup.

What, Imp, no answer?

Surely you do not want a secretive border…