Since I believe that the key for unlocking dreams is the emotional impact of the symbols, I would ask how the emotions were distributed in the dream. In brain studies of dreaming the neurotransmitters that allow for logic are shut down and the dream problem comes from the brain base. The brain base as Serpent in Eden or Id presents a certain distress as a problem to be solved. The distress could be about almost any problem in your life that seems to demand a visceral response. The “articulate” Serpent/Id generally speaks about physical problems. Eve/Ego speaks about identity problems as they affect the limbic system.
I think we’re on the same page here.
It wasn’t that emotionally intense. I felt like I was just calmly watching.
I don’t see how you could remember your dream so well, in all particulars, if the dream was devoid of emotional impact.
Besides those two, there are two more facts about dreams.
1- No either living or dead, who is known to us in this human life, ever comes into dream in that very apperance.
This is to say that if one sees his any member of his family, friends or nears in the dream, who is/are either alive or dead, will never come into the dream in the same way as he is/was known to us as human. It means, that if you see your wife in the dream, she will not be your wife for sure. And, if you see your dead grand father in the dream, he will not be the soul of that person who was happened to be your grand father in his human life.
2- One can never see his image in the mirror or somewhere else during dreams.
Furthermore, as a thumb rule, we do not see any part of out body during dreams. And, even if that happens, we use to find ourselves naked.
Though, there are some exceptions to this rule but those are rare, very rare.
with love,
sanjay
I’d say dreams are manifestation of unconscious (instinctual) material into consciousness, via imagery. I hope you’re just trying to be poetic here. Otherwise, it would be akin to magical thinking- giving an event (such as when calling it a miracle) more elevated status (realness) because we can’t see or rationally comprehend the place from where it came (or rational trying to understand the irrational).
Here’s Jung’s view on dreams:
"The unconscious consists of memories, usually emotional residues, of past experiences that are located beyond the threshold of conscious recall but may be triggered at a moment’s notice. The symbols of our dreams are produced from subliminal material that consists of urges, impulses, intentions, perceptions, intuitions, feelings, thoughts, conclusions, etc. that have become unconscious because there is no room for them in the conscious mind or because they are unpleasant in some way to the conscious mind.
Dreams are most often confusing and disorienting. Even conscious events have unconscious overtones of which we are unaware. Indeed, the unconscious is the almost invisible root of all our conscious thoughts. Dreams are an integral part of the symbolic- making propensity of man. Many dreams present images and ideas analogous to primitive ideas, myths and rites, archaic remnants, according to Jung, psychic elements that have survived in the human mind from eons ago. These are not lifeless or meaningless remnants but vital links between the ways in which we consciously express our thoughts and a more primitive, colourful and pictorial form of expression. They appeal to the feelings and emotions more directly and are the link between the rational world of consciousness and the world of feeling and instinct. In everyday life, so many of our ideas have been stripped of emotional energy so that we need something to bring certain things home to us effectively enough to makes us change our attitudes or our behaviour. The “general function of dreams is to restore our psychological balance by producing dream material that re-establishes, in a subtle way, the total psychic equilibrium” (50). Dreams warn about deficiencies in the personality and dangers in the present course of living. Sometimes dreams have a precognitive content in that many crises in our lives have a long unconscious history.
In the civilising process, we have increasingly divided our consciousness from the deeper instinctive strata of the human psyche that are an inalienable part of our psychic and genetic inheritance. These remain part of the unconscious even though they may only express themselves in the form of dream images. For the sake of mental and physiological stability and health, the conscious and unconscious must be mutually integrated in the course of the process which Jung terms ‘individuation.’ When dissociated from each other, psychological disturbance follows. Dream symbols are message carriers from the instinctive to the rational parts of the mind. Their interpretation enriches the poverty of consciousness by forcing to learn again the forgotten language of the instincts…"
rlwclarke.net/Courses/LITS33 … scious.pdf
youtube.com/watch?v=rRWUT6ZYNNc
I remember because of the symbolic significance I was aware of at the time and upon waking up. I guess if there was an emotion it would be “eerie”.
Why do you suppose that is, Sanjay?
What? Really? That’s something I’ll have to watch out for. Either I’ll be dreaming or I’ll have turned into a vampire!
Again, why do you suppose this is?
No, Pandora.
I just hate poetic language like N in philosophy. Philosophy is already a very complex issue so one shoud not make it more confusing by using vague language.
I meant exactly what the plain and simple meaning of that sentence is. And, if you you read carefully, i also gave the reasoning in support. Here it is-
Pandora, his perception of the dreams is not much different from the Frued, which is more or less the same for the most of the intellectuals nowdays; dreams are representations of subconscious in one way or other.
But, i do not subscribe this view at all. Dreams have noting do with human life and a different phenomenn and reasoning alltogether.
I explained that concept in the posts addressed to te Gib. You may have a look to that again.
with love,
sanjay
with love,
sanjay
Sanjay,
We’ve got our wires crossed here. “Suppose” doesn’t mean what you think it means–not in this context at least. When someone says “Why do you suppose that is?” it means “What is your supposition about why that is?” not “Why are you supposing that?”
Just read your Sobriety thread. Is it possible the two are related?
Only loosely.
But read this:
I’m seeing you ascribing spiritual qualities to instincts. What is spirituality to you? You seem to be giving ‘spirituality’ otherworldly, super-natural qualities, but on what grounds? They may work independently, and even in contrast to rational and conscious mind, but this quality alone doesn’t make them super-natural.
What is a soul to you? Is it something otherworldly? Instincts are encoded in our human genetic material and passed down from generation to generation. They also outlast individual human life.
'life of soul, caged in a human body"? And you say you hate poetic language. If the soul’s nature and expression is independent from physical human body, why would it be ‘caged’ by it?
Yes.
Have nothing to do with human life?
Dreams as messages from another (super-natural) realm?
Could you not see them as manifestation of a part of your physical being, in-corporate them?
Yes, wires are crossed because there is a lot of difference for me between Why do you suppose that is and What is your supposition about why that is.
That is perhaps because how we use English language. Here in India and also in the whole of the Indian subcontinent, we always go for literal meaning than for the abstract one, unless that is not widely accepted and practiced. That is a hell of issue for me as many times i find it difficult to draw a meaning from the posts of members, because English is not a language that i speak.
Furthermore, i also think that English is not a good language technically as it favors practice over principle on many occasions.
Nevertheless, i apologize for that.
Now, my answer will change accodingly for your questions about my suppositions.
Gib,i put all that four standards (or whatever you would like to call those) forth because i realized those from my experiences. Let me tell you one instance from many to explain why and how.
Due to some reasons (or efforts), now i am able to see sometimes or some parts dreams uncovered. This is to say i can see that life of the soul (only sometimes and to some extent) without symbolism. Furthermore, sometimes i can see dreams without sleeping. Some may call it hallucination, daydream or vision etc but that is a meditative state, that one can experience during a particular mental situation and called Tandra in Yoga. So, i know what is happening at the backstage to some extent.
I would like to give you an example to make it easier to understand.
Once i saw a dream in which there were some people around. That includes a young boy in his teens and middle aged slightly fat person with a dense beard. The content of the dream is not pertinent here so i am skipping that. The dream ended, i awake and came into senses. It was midnight and i have been developed a habit of meditating in the bed till sleep since long.
So, i stated meditation again within a minute but have not been slept yet again. Now, the same dream started unfoulding in the front of my close eyes, just in the same way as something use to happen after the stage show, when the audience would have been left and actors and staff use to start packing their stuff. I knew that because i was still awake as the repitition of the Mantras was still going on from my side. So both technically and conscious wise, i was awake for sure.
Then, i saw that young boy undressing or changing his costume. As he removed his upper cloth (above from waist), i saw a tight strip binded around his chest area. As he removed that, his big brests popped out and instantly realized that he was a woman, who was pretended to be a boy in the dream. Then, i heard myself saying " Ohh, it was you!" Then, she laughed and tried to run away but i caught her arm. By that time, the second fat peson with beard also had been changed his dress and appearance and now became a middle aged women by removing her beard.
One important thing to understand here that i saw all this awakened, not sleeping, as i was fully consious and the repitition of the mantras was still going on side by side. This incident, and a lot of others also, told me that, the myself in the dream and myself as a human, use to have separate existence and memoreis too. Because, the way i behaved with that girl tells that myself in the dream knew here very well, though myself as a human did nor know her at all. Furthermore, it also established the fact the persons, who use to come into dreams, should not be taken at the face value of their appearances.
Gib, there are many other things and incidents, which confirm my theory, but i narrated ths because it was related to the dreams.
with love,
sanjay
Yes, Pandora. By all means.
You asked many questions in one go. It is not possible to reply in a single post because i have to explain the whole ontology.
If you are really interested in answers,i would like to advice you to have a look at these posts-
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=184542#p2438719
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=184542&start=25#p2439486
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=184542&start=25#p2439691
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=184542&start=25#p2440028
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=184542&start=25#p2440743
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=184542&start=25#p2443173
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=184542&start=50#p2443946
I am sure if you have the patience to go through all those, you will find most of the answers to your questions.
And, i will feel obliged answering the remaining questions, if there were any.
with love,
sanjay
Ain’t that the truth. Trying to teach my daughter how the English language works is damn near impossible.
This could be the answer I was looking for. I’ve often wondering whether this was all a big “show” being put on for us by higher beings beyond us. And the dream world could be a sort of micro-show within the macro-show. In that case, no one would appear as they really are because everyone must dress for their part.
Yes, you said it.
Dreams are nothing but just like a late night half hour concluding show of the events of the whole of the day that every news channel use to have. They very rarely represent details, but just symbolic hints.
But, for that theory, you will have to accept the existence of other realms of existence other that one that we use to know.
And, also that the existence of the soul is different from the body.
That it true and i come to know this from my experiences. Though, most people confuse it otherwise when they see any of their dead or alive nears and dears ever in their dreams.
I know a lot of such things which people do not know in general but i hesitate to say that because most of the intellectualls would call me insane.
Gib, i would again suggest you to spare an hour to read this thread-
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=184542
It is just a three page thread and contains perhaps 6-7 posts of mine. If you go through that posts, the whole of the ontology of this labyrinth would become clear to you.
with love,
sanjay
Thanks for the link Sanjay. I’ll read it when I find some spare time.