Enduring Relationships

On the radio this morning a guest commented on this relationship with his wife and the length of their marriage: the longer it lasts the better it gets.

This tends to be the general opinion, at least in the Western World. Relationships, it is thought, should last, and if they should show signs of strain, you should work to improve things. And if you cannot do it yourself, then there are plenty of marriage guidance councillors, sex therapists and the like just waiting to help and advise you. Men who restlessly go from one relationship to another are often described as suffering from ‘Don Juan Syndrome’. One hears such things as: only a long relationship is a meaningful relationship.

What all this amounts to is that whatever a person’s mind, body and spirit are saying to them they are ignoring, or over-riding, in favour of some externally imposed rules that derive from I don’t know where, but probably the likes of the ethics of the major religions. Or, it might be that having realised how useful the notion of ‘loyalty’ is to them, those in power have managed to get loyalty classed as one of the ‘virtues’, and the population is buying into it, especially in the area of relationships – boss/employee, master/servant as well as husband wife.

In fact it applies to all sorts of relationships besides marriage. Obviously there is friendship and other human relationships, but this is a world ruled by ‘experts’, and experts can be described as people who are loyal to one profession.

One can turn this around completely and say that a healthy relationship is based on common interest, and should not be forced to endure beyond the duration of that interest in any of the parties involved.

So, for example, I decide to explore weaving, say, and I know someone who has also taken an interest in weaving, or I know someone who is a weaver and who want an apprentice. I would make friends with one or more of these people and we would have a ‘meaningful’ relationship. In this case there is ‘substance’ and point to the relationship. It is not purely emotional = empty but feels good.

Often enough marriages hit the rocks when the children are old enough to fend for themselves, which suggests that the common interest did exist, and it was child-rearing. It would therefore be pointless, and even harmful, to try and endure that relationship into the future, to prolong it, when it has, in fact, died a natural death.

This is a view of life in which one sees everyone’s life as having purpose, meaning and direction. Every life is a story, and there are times when one person’s story overlaps, or runs parallel to, another person’s story, and at such times they can form a relationship (teacher/pupil, master/apprentice, friend/friend, boss/employee, husband/wife etc etc) which enhances, stimulates and energises both partners.

It seems to me that if you trust YOURSELF and put the urgings of your own mind, body and spirit before the dictates of others, then this is the place you will get to. And it really is a far more comfortable, interesting, fun, stress-free, FREE place to be.

All I have been saying applies as much to interests and professions as to people. I mean, when one finds one’s interest in some activity or field of study flagging, then one should recognise that it has died a perfectly natural death and that it is time to move on. The loss may only be temporary; things sometimes need to ‘over-winter’ in the mind, and if you allow them to do so you will, in time, find that spring arrives and you are full of new motivation, new energy and new ideas etc etc. If you do not let go you will be ‘flogging a dead horse’, and it will never get to its feet again, and you will never have the energy and enthusiasm, will always have to struggle to maintain your interest and keep working. It seems to me that it is highly un-natural and unhealthy to devote oneself single-mindedly to, say, music or physics or nursing or whatever for all of one’s life.

I think that just sounds like an excuse to give up on someone if you just happen to be in a bad patch.

True love never gives up.

How would you know…?

You can’t see how loyalty might be inherently useful? I don’t think many strings had to be pulled in order for people to regard loyalty as a virtue.

This idea of “true love” seems very confused and naive to me, but to be fair, you didn’t exactly explain what you think “true love” is. I’d be interested to hear it, if you’d like to explain.

It’s difficult to put into words, except to say that it’s a truly overpowering emotion that drives everything else out.

I think enduring relationships come when 2 people love each other and continue to find new things to love about each other and new ways to work together even as they change. To me this is an ideal.

Having said this, I can tell you from experience the notion “only a long relationship is a meaningful relationship” is a facile one. Sometimes it cannot last, but parting ways does not erase the love or communion that was had.

It’s a maturity issue.

“True love” is a fully-fermented fine wine, cultivated for months or years; explored, exposed; souls winding and whirling into one shared consciousness.

“Love” by itself is just this loosey-goosey pop-culture idea that gets thrown around by everyone in a billion different contexts; it seems to stand for a rough combination of joy, friendship, respect, admiration and sometimes lust, though sometimes much less than this.

When people talk about “true love” there’s generally a real-world reason why the modifier is there; they’re speaking from experience that has highlighted the different meanings and understandings of the term. You can love to fuck, love your mom, and love the San Francisco 49ers, but you must be experienced to know much deeper, much more complex notions of love that far transcend these others. “True love” or “real love” or “the perfect love” are simply referring to these deeper, more complex levels of understanding experience and consciousness.

Rational types tend to lose sight of this (very!) simple fact because for whatever reason they think it implies “religious thinking” or “predetermined fate” or something when that’s not being suggested at all; what’s being suggested are states of mind, levels of consciousness, locations of understanding, perspectives. “True love” to my mind, for instance, is no less than the deification of existence.

That’s all very romantic…and unrealistic.

Call it what you will, your deeper, much more complex notions of love are just as susceptible to human nature as the loosey-goosey, pop culture idea that gets thrown around.

You’re talking about the natural maturing of people – in general, we go from young people who feel everything passionately, who take superficial nonsense far too seriously, to older, wiser people who see the value of substance, who recognize that lust and a few laughs don’t equal love. We look for something more meaningful, something we can call “true” or “perfect” or “real”, but they’re just words and they do nothing to make those relationships infallible.

I maintain that the idea that “true love never gives up” is naive.

I think there is more beauty and truth in loving someone while it lasts, enjoying the progression of a relationship, and accepting it’s natural end.

Well hooray for the girl in the sensible hat. =D>

I’m sorry, did I kill the mood?

It was a mercy killing. No seriously, well spoken.

Thanks :wink:

I’m waiting for someone to accuse me of being a hopeless romantic, though.

So is obsession.

I don’t think that’s a very loving rule, though you may be right in this case. There comes a time in some relationships when one needs to give up and go elsewhere, even if the other person is a good joe, etc. Never giving up can be self-abuse and doesn’t really help the other person, unless it happens to be, in a specific case, the right person. Knowing when it is right to keep on trying and when it is time to move away from that person is, of course, not always easy to figure out.

Blurry,

It seems you’re reading Maia’s post into mine (which would be my fault). I wasn’t defending the idea that “true love never gives up” (though I think I understand it, naiveté and all); I was merely defending the usage of “true” and “pure” and the like as qualifiers for “love” in the sense they serve a real-word distinction that comes from experience & wisdom. You seem to have gotten this point just fine.

“Human nature” can mean just about anything here; i.e., I can’t disagree with the way you’ve worded this, but I have a suspicion I do disagree with the larger point being suggested, almost like you’re wanting to say “true love is equally bullshit nonsense as regular love” but are hiding behind “susceptible to human nature.” You’d have to explain further.

I said nothing about infallibility and resent the “they’re just words” assessment. Linguistic configurations (particularly when it comes to meta-concepts and abstractions like love) represent nothing short of one’s worldview.

I can only speak from my experience. If you have to work at being a spouse or mate then its not an enduring relation… If you don’t want that person around you in your heart when they are at their worst, then maybe you need to step away to someone else. Love is loving the irritating crap the other person does and realizing you too bring irritating crap to the table.

I enjoyed a relationship with my mentor which lasted half a century–until her death at 98. The relationship was never sexual, hence it had room for “the marriage of true minds”.
Hi, Lady K. Thai says, “Meow”, which is cat formost of what he wishes to say.

Hi Ierr and Thai! hope all is well.
“Youth is wasted on the young”
I think in a way we can apply that to marriage. Sex can get in the way of making the best decision on getting married. I am inclined to think your relation with your mentor was far more satisfying and fulfilling then a five minute romp for anyone could ever be. Youth need to breed but, marriage is about that marriage of the minds. Heck, I think its more fun too. My other half is opposite of me in the mind, we both enjoy the differences and disagreements. We have never been bored or tired of each other. Our minds met first then our bodies. Seems to me most lasting happy couples have that in common.

:laughing: That’s not love, it sounds more like lust. Lust is exclusive, love is inclusive…drawing everything into it.