English or Chinese?

[size=150]* An article I found online today *[/size]

  • I hope this topic hasn’t been discussed before [ fingers crossed ] *

My questions :

  • Is it possible to be totally fluent in more than one language ?

  • Has any one person ever written full-length novels in two separate languages, unassisted ?

  • Would a multilingual society not be dumbed-down by being a jack-of-all-trades… master of none ?
    .

Because rabbits produce 10 babies each year, by next year the world will be swamped with rabbits, and will descend into chaos.

‘Totally fluent’ as recognised by others, as all meaning in language is, yes.

Probably, though I’m struggling to think of one. I do have an inkling in my memory that this has been done, but I can’t remember the author. It’s most likely to be a European author since I know much more about them than others.

It certainly could have that effect, in some people. Of course, some people are obviously so dumb that they struggle to get good at one language, let alone more than one. This would be an effective means of ensuring that such people never develop sophisticated ideas.

One could say the same about multiculturalism in general. The more options one has, the less likely any of them will come to dominate at a given time and the more freedom the real powers that be have to get on with running everything.

  • Thanks for your input SIATD *

" This is an exam-pal… of the ingle-ish I am forced to speak… every day… You ask me what do I mean ?.. I must tell you that for me… I live in a howwse with many immigrant workers… and so I must speak very slow-lee and care-full-ee so that our ‘rare’ [by my choice] con-ver-sations do not turn into me giving them free ingle-ish lessons for two hours every day."

This may sound cruel and antisocial, but I believe I have the rite to protect my linguistic capabilities from being polluted by ‘Globish’, so I retreat to my room and go online.

Personally, I think it’s impossible, for the vast majority, to be totally fluent in more than one language because my definition was outlined in my second question, which was…

- Has any one person ever written full-length novels in two separate languages, unassisted ?

I’m pretty sure this is a very, very rare ability, and so in the future, perhaps in several hundred years, there will surely have to be only one Global Language.

What will this language be ?.. English ?.. Chinese ?.. Spanish ?.. French ?.. etc.

Maybe it will be a totally new language, a mixture of all the current major players.

Only time will tell… or maybe some ‘forward thinking’ ?
.

P.S. - Somewhat ironically… I’ve just realised that I still use English dictionarys for spell-checking on a daily basis, and so it would probably be impossible for ME to write a full length novel in English, unassisted.

’ Ironically '… Did I use that word right ?.. I’m not even sure. :smiley::astonished:

ironically speaking I suppose.

and yes, a great number of people have written many things in more than one language.

-Imp

SirEbrum,

I myself speaking a non-English language as a mother tongue, coming from a country that features not English among official languages, I will exemplify with some examples from my cultural environment that are at hand.

Sure. Ancient and mediaeval philosophers were all fluent both in their native language and Latin or Greek. Or both. I can also give you Mircea Eliade - Romanian historian of religions, who apparently was fluent in a kazillion languages. Nicolae Iorga, a Romanian historian could speak twice as much.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolae_Iorga#Life

“…and his written works in many languages bear out the claim that he could read, write, and speak virtually all of the major modern European languages.”

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eliade

“He had fluent command of five languages (Romanian, French, German, Italian, English), and was a casual speaker of three others (Hebrew, Persian and Sanskrit).”

Not only novels, but also plays, poems and philosophical treatise.

Mircea Eliade and Iorga I’ve mentioned. Among Romanians who prefer French I’ll give you the playwright Eugene Ionesco and the philosopher Emil Cioran. Beckett wrote some plays in French, Borges wrote in English, T.S. Eliot has some poems in Italian. Spinoza, Augustine, St Paul, you name 'em.

I don’t know. I’d say not, but factual experience could prove otherwise. Killing a language is like slaughtering a living being. Doing it would vacuum a distinct universe of possibilities and expression into oblivion. Every language is chiselled and polished much like a work of art and possesses its own Geist. While a uni-language world could prove more efficient, the actual procedure of making tabula rasa of all the other languages would rob us of an invaluable cultural wealth.

Thanks Mucius Scevola, some good examples there. You yourself are also a fine example.

I can see how it would be important for a lifelong scholar to be multilingual (especially historians, like some that you named).

This may, or may not, be true. For example, in my country the Irish language is rapidly on its way to extinction. But, we still have our Hiberno-English [see below], so not everything is lost, at least not in our case. But anyway, as far as I know, the Irish language only has around 50,000 words, which is probably why it’s seen as ‘primative’ by many, and no great loss.

Hiberno-English - (“Have a gawk at this… yee’ll have the crack like”) :slight_smile:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiberno_English


Some other related links :

The Internet and Linguistic Pluralism
[gse.uci.edu/faculty/markw/languages.html](http://www.gse.uci.edu/faculty/markw/languages.html)

OF THE 6,000 LANGUAGES STILL ON EARTH, 90 PERCENT COULD BE GONE BY 2100
[findarticles.com/p/articles/ ... 6207/print](http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0GER/is_2000_Spring/ai_61426207/print)
.

Even though I’m only fluent in two languages (English and potty mouth) it seems to me that an ideographic language would be preferable in that it is multi-dimensional. The number of possible meanings carried by ideographic language appears to be much richer than a linear constructed language such as English. The dominance of English is an economic dominance, not because it conveys meaning in a superior way.

Vladimir Nabokov wrote in both English and Russian.
He wrote a classic, “Lolita”.

Kropotkin

How can you live in Ireland and even ask those questions? Good lord, the rest of Europe is just a stone’s throw away. Go live in another country for a year or two and you should be pretty fluent afterwards. People say it gets harder as you get older, but I haven’t really noticed a change. Not only is it possible, but it is pretty damn easy.

As for authors, people have already listed many. And what about people that primarily wrote in a language that was not their native language? Einstein, Asimov, and Rand did not speak English as their first language, yet you’d be hard-pressed to pick them out from a crowd of native english speakers. Tu Weiming has written fluently in both English and Chinese. There are others as well, only a few of whom have been mentioned.

Lastly, I fail to see how being multilingual hurts anyone. Heck, most people who speak multiple languages speak their native language better because they actually know the rules. Talk about dative constructs to a monoglot. Heck, ask about ‘who vs. whom’ and you’ll be able to spot the monoglots right away.

Xunzian wrote :

  • Quite easy really… I just tap the keys for a while and then hit submit.
  • But I speak English [ the best language in the world? ], I’m not a historian, nor am I involved in any profession which NEEDS me to be multilingual… so this would surely just be a waste of my time. Also, I’ve never really been bitten by the ‘travel bug’, and even if I was, I’m not one for ‘smalltalk’… I do, however, find Eastern European women quite attractive, so maybe someday THAT will give me a reason.
  • My point exactly.
  • I ‘think’ I know what that means… please clarify… I might learn something.

Basically, I think it's going to happen like this... The first languages to disappear will be the ones with the smallest 'lexicon' [number of words]... The disappearances will continue on up the line, leaving English as the Global Language. This will take two to three hundred years.

Eventually, everyone will speak a new *Standard World English* in the worlds of academia and business... but, like in Ireland, each country/region will have it's own *Rich Colorful Dialect* used in everyday conversation amongst locals... this regional dialect will have been heavily influenced/enriched by it's former language, and so cultural identity will be retained.

This is already happening.
.

canada i believe teaches in their schools french and english. so naturally theyre totally fluent in both languages. according to one of my psychology professors (he asked his canadian classmate what language he thought in) bilingual people think in whatever language they were using last.

as you pointed out… writing anything unassisted is a chore. i used a dictionary to spell check twice already hah.

and jack of all trades… in literature? i dont know. maybe a rapper who didnt naturally speak english would have a harder time finding words to rhyme with bitches… but i find it hard to think of anyone as a master of english nowadays. i suspect that even shakespeare was a myth.

Shakespeare wasn’t even that good. Chaucer was a much, much better poet. Shakespeare is the 50 Cent of British Literature…

never read chaucer.

i find that very insulting though… comparing 50 cent to shakespeare :imp:

Today, I’ve been trying to find some online ’ Lexicon Statistics ’ for the world’s major languages. But I’ve been unsuccessful.

I did find some for the various dialects of Romani [see link below].
romani.kfunigraz.ac.at/romlex/stats.cgi

Is ’ Lexicon Statistics ’ the best term to search with ?

Please, anybody, feel free to offer any links, ideas, or info.

" You can fine me in da cluuub…" - GENIUS !!

Okay, Shakespeare is more like the Paul McCartney of British Literature. After all, even in his own time Marlowe was the superior writer.

I’ve read Shakespeare for over a decade, performed in several productions, directed one production (Macbeth) and seen various stage and cinema productions of his works, and really, I don’t see what the fuss is about. The Tempest, for example, is self-serving, with many glaring omissions.