Enlightenment and ILP

After a couple of days of thought, as to whether I
should remain on ILP due to the lack of any
philosophical content (I don’t consider the
prevalent posting of conspiracies and prejudices
as being philosophy) I have decided to change course…

I know that my every post will be drowned by
idiotic conspiracy theories and downright stupid
comments that lead us nowhere, ‘‘Watching the
fall of capitalism’’ is one such thread that has
no point nor leads us anywhere…
and why is it pointless? Because it doesn’t give
us any sort of actions to be taken… ok, we
are watching the fall of capitalism, now what?
The poster doesn’t even offer us something like
Stoicism to handle this coming fall… it just says
we are fucked… and nothing more… That isn’t
philosophy nor does it belong in a philosophy site…
So, Kropotkin, what does belong on a philosophy site?
A question that isn’t even asked around here…and why?
Because people are so locked into their prejudices and bigotry
to even notice a world outside of their own prejudices…

the path of philosophy is to overcome the various
indoctrinations that we receive in our lives…
the key word being overcome… and that is lacking today…
How do we overcome the fall of capitalism?
How do we overcome our bigotries and prejudice?..

Around here people don’t overcome their bigotries
and prejudices, they celebrate and announce their
prejudices as philosophy… nothing is done too actually
practice philosophy… to overcome our prejudices,
that is at the heart of philosophy…

As I have stated before, what is needed is a new Enlightenment…
to challenge our indoctrinations and prejudices as something
to overcome… Philosophy is about the struggle to overcome,
to become wiser, to become a better human being…
and practicing idiotic conspiracy theories like
''the White replacement theory" which has no value
or point to it, because it isn’t real, or part of reality…
there is nothing there to overcome because it is
patently false… and therein lies philosophy…
in which the point is to overcome one’s false
beliefs and values… to hold to the allege superiority
of the ‘‘white’’ person isn’t philosophy because what
have you done to overcome this nonsense?

There isn’t motion or movement in most of the
threads and posts in ILP… take the ‘‘White
replacement theory’’… what motion or movement is
suggested here? None… it is presented as fact,
whereas it is nothing more than a prejudice masquerading
as a fact… and most posters here just simple
practice prejudice and bigotry instead of actual
philosophy… in which they try to overcome their
current bigotries and prejudices…

‘‘to become’’ that is a call to rethink what we believe to
be facts… (and aren’t, as prejudices are not facts)

Let us engage with another idiotic bigotry, the
clearly false belief in the Jewish domination of
the world… ask a ‘‘believer’’ to present any
facts to prove their case, and we get nonsense
that would embarrass a 5 year old…
and let us make the huge assumption that it
is true, ok, what should we do? what is our
course of action if, if we accept the idea
that the Jews control the world?
One never hears that… it is just announced as
fact and left as that… there is no motion or movement
allowed in the statement that the ""Jews control the world’’
what are we to do if, IF that were true? That is never
answered… for me, if you make a idiotic statement
like ‘‘the Jews control the world’’ you had better have
a solution present to overcome this reality…
If you don’t have a solution to your problem,
SHUT THE FUCK UP… don’t say anything if
you can’t give us some sort of solution or
resolution to the problem you have given us…

As for me, I recognize that I am one of the few
around here that actually practices Philosophy…
and I commend Bob for being another fellow
practitioner of Philosophy…most here engage in
empty rhetoric and bigotry as a substitute for philosophy…

I am changing my own practices of posting here…
I recognize that the bigotry crowd will fill my
own philosophical threads with crap like
bigotry and prejudices… so, I am just posting
my stuff and ignore virtually any answers…
(I do actually read every single answer to my
thread and posts, but most of the time it isn’t worth
responding to because it is nothing more than
bigotry and prejudice at work, not philosophy)

My goal here is to present philosophy and knowing
that the others around here, with few exceptions,
are dilettantes engaged in polemics about
their own bigotries and prejudices… I have
no interest in polemics nor do I have any
interest in expressing bigotries and prejudices
as philosophy… as the vast majority of posters
here engage with both polemics and prejudices as fact…

I am here for philosophy… and as such, I am going to ignore
most posters here because they aren’t interested in
engaging in philosophy because to do so is hard work
and courage… something very few around here are
interested in… practicing either courage or hard work…
the vast majority of posters around here are not
interested in philosophy… just expressing their own
bigotry/prejudices and attempting to convince
others of the validity of their bigotries…which
is polemics…

and few if any will take this thread seriously, because
they don’t engage with or even give a shit about
Philosophy… most here only care about their
bigotries and prejudice which is then posted
here as being real, as factual, when it is
false, clearly false… but one won’t know unless
they engage with their own values… which takes
courage and effort/hard work…

as Nietzsche once wrote:

''It isn’t enough to have the courage of one’s convictions,
one must have the courage for an attack upon ones
convictions"

do you have that courage? are you willing to engaged
in the hard work that comes with engaging in philosophy?
for most of you, I doubt it… and for them I say,
wallow away in your prejudices and bigotry…
for your belief system is just that unless one
engages in the hard work of discovering the truth…

who here is willing to do that?

Kropotkin

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“Hello, my name is Peter, I support the political status quo on every single issue especially if it is the limousine liberal variety. Let me tell you why you’re wrong and why I am right on everything, if you respond to me I won’t even debate you. Thinking is hard when it concerns actual debating skills.”

:clown_face:

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“one must have the courage for an attack upon ones convictions”

That’s exactly what I’m tryna do, keter, and I’m gonna begin that attack on the court house.

Buh dum tshhh! (Get it? ‘Convictions’. Kay)

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I know that does irritate me too - like that’s never going to happen ‘atleast anytime soon’. I agree, but I think I know the person you are talking about one does offer solutions such as authoritarianism and communism, but you may not like those solutions. So that doesn’t mean that the person is not talking philosophy because you don’t like it. It is up to you to argue against it and offer solutions on why. Applied philosophy.

Prejudices and stereotypes are definitely philosophical - but can you outsmart them? Can you prove them wrong? That involves logical argumentation, the purpose of this website

People often overcome their opinions and philosophy by argumentation - that is why all of us are on here. Politics - the branch of philosophy dealing with what is allowed and disallowed. There are different kinds of philosophy such as aestheticism, logic, ethics, epistomology, Metaphysics - politics (political philosophy) is one of them. Often political argumentation involves almost all branches of philosophy - which is pretty cool because we get to practise using all of them

that includes you.

It is up to you to out argue it. It’s called applied philosophy. All our politicians in congress and Donald Trump too, is applying philosophy EVERYDAY to get whatever they want done.

It is up to you to use logic and debate to prove otherwise.

Your statements just sound like you are frustrated because you are struggling to overcome people’s good philosophical arguments. Really.

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I will answer the last three posts within this one post…

I disagree with the statement that ‘‘bigotry and prejudice’’
are philosophical… most people bigotry and prejudices
are a result of our childhood indoctrinations… There
is a god, is one such childhood prejudice… polemics
would be, ‘‘There is a god’’… and trying to convince
the reader that there is a god, whereas philosophy would
be… there is no evidence for god, no matter where I look…
there are no facts that support the idea that a god exists…
I have looked for such facts/evidence, and I cannot find them…
(I engaged in seeking out god for over 30 years, never found
any facts/evidence that would support that idea and that is
philosophy) and not only that, but I would also argue that it is
this belief in god that has created our modern alienation
and despair that circles the globe…Why would this be true?
Because belief in god creates an ‘‘US vs THEM’’ attitude…
Us believers vs those non-believers… and that divides us,
separates us from each other…there are far more
arguments against god, then is for god…
but this is an example of philosophy, not
prejudice or polemics… I hold to this viewpoint because
I have done the hard work of trying to understand is there
is a god and just as importantly, why do we even need
a god? I would suggest that this belief in god has been,
is a strong reason for the strife, anger, despair, hatred,
alienation that exists within the world today…
and I would suggests that a great reason for Philosophy
is to overcome this superstition/prejudice… for the belief
in god has, clearly, damage us both, individually and
collectively… when I look around at the world, I don’t
see a calm, cool, happy world… I see anger and despair
and alienation all over the world… and I believe that
religion and a belief in god, has helped bring about
our damaged world… As I have tried to explain over
many threads and posts…

One of the many such arguments against god, religion for
example is that they are stagnant beliefs… there is no
motion or movement required within them…
belief in god is the end of the story… whereas
for me, belief in god is just the beginning of the story…
What is the value of a belief in god? it is a childhood
indoctrination that harms us in many, diverse ways..
there is, for me anyway, no strong reason to believe
in god because it is so damaging to us as human beings…
which is why I put so much emphasis on overcoming our
indoctrinations… I am an atheist, but I spent decades
trying to overcome my own belief within seeking out
a god… after decades of searching, I am at peace with
my own choice of being an atheist… I have explored
my possibilities…and that boys and girls, is philosophy…

as I have noted before, I am a liberal… but I wasn’t always one…
I have held three distinct political beliefs… one, I followed
my own parents in practicing moderate liberalism…
which is something we all do… just accept our own
childhood indoctrinations… until Raygun was elected
president… I saw what damaged he did to California,
and didn’t want that practiced across the nation…
so, I was radicalized by Raygun election in 1981…
I spent a couple of years studying my choices…
I studied both anarchism and communism to see which
one was my path into the future… after much thought,
I became an Anarchist… and in doing so, I rejected
communism as a political choice…again for reasons,
I have stated over and over again…

my third political position has been a very liberal
political position… This began around 1992-1995…
and my reason for leaving Anarchism is rather simple,
it was a theory that was in the future… the rather distant
future… the world at some point in time, will
become Anarchistic… it is only a matter of time…
but it will not happen anywhere near my own lifetime…
and so, I left Anarchism as being a political philosophy
of the future… not of today…

as for philosophical positions, I have had many different
diverse philosophies… from being a Nietzschean to
having faith in Kant and then I was for a time, a Hegelian,
to existentialism… where I now mostly hand out in…
I hold to existentialism because of the fact it offers us
choices that other philosophies don’t offer us…

at all times in my life, I have had ever changing
beliefs and philosophies… my goal has been to
overcome my own beliefs and ‘‘faiths’’/indoctrinations,
to become much more secure in my own values…
because I have spent years, decades in overcoming
every single value I have held… and even today, at
66, I am ever changing in my own values… overcoming
them… life for me, is not static or stationary, it is moving,
it is about overcoming… it is about coming ever closer
to what the reality I see on the ground every single day…
If I hold a belief that is in opposition to the reality on the
ground, I must change that belief to come closer
to the reality I see… the beliefs in my head are not
as important as the reality on the ground is…
and I change my beliefs to be closer to the reality
on the ground…

an example of this is the conservative belief that people
are inherently evil, bad… this belief, expressed
by Machiavelli, is wrong as far as I can see because
most people are, good and not only that, want to do
what is right/good… I have seen this time after time
in my own life… to hold that people are inherently evil,
is to hold a value that has no reality in the world…
it isn’t present within the world that I see…
so, I hold that people are basically good, if, IF
they were to know what good actions and beliefs
are… once again, we have movement, overcoming…
for me, the heart of philosophy lies within its movement
toward reality… to hold to, to subscribe to prejudice
and superstitions and bigotry, isn’t about movement..
nor is it about philosophy… prejudice is just childhood
indoctrinations that we haven’t overcome yet…

my basic philosophy is about movement, change, overcoming…
going from, as Nietzsche pointed out, going from animal to
becoming human… something we have not yet done…

But Kropotkin, you simply hold onto your superstitions,
and prejudice… no, I have and will continue to change
my own values and beliefs…I wasn’t born with
the liberal values I hold to today, I grew into them
over decades of overcoming my other values and
beliefs… my own values and beliefs are not
static or stationary… every single day, I come a little
bit closer to becoming fully human…
and the first step, as always, is to become aware of,
to notice what I hold to be true today… and see if those
beliefs and values are really my own values/beliefs or
are they simply indoctrinations of some sort…

I often go over the same terrain simply for the reason I
am engaged in holding my own beliefs to the fire, as it were…
Do I hold this belief? I do today because I have examined
it and hold it to be closer to reality than other beliefs…
and if I see a change in reality, I then change my beliefs
to fit, match the reality on the ground… I have done so
before, and I will continue to do so, hopefully as long
as I live… to be static, unchanging in one’s belief
and values, is to stop living…,

Kropotkin

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Ooooh! See, You don’t know that. And it is logically proven that you in fact do not know that!

You atheists act like you’re really up there, don’t you?

Not using SOUND logic, instead warping it to justify what is not correct.

Yes, you need to admit that you do not know whether there is a god(s) or not and humble yourself.

It is the most reasonable thing to do.

You’re own pride is getting in the way to being reasonable on this.

let us look at another prejudice…
that the Jews own/control the world…

Try asking for evidence… none is ever offered…
ask for solutions, none is ever offered…
ask for what happens next?
none is ever offered…

it is simple a belief that has no motion or movement
within it… it is a static/stationary belief that
takes us nowhere, leads us to nothing, has no
purpose or benefit to us? It can’t take us anywhere…
it is a pointless fiction that has no value of any kind…
for that belief, the Jews control the world, has no
past, present or future… it takes us nowhere…

The same holds true for any type of belief in god…
it has no past, it has no present, and it has no future…
because ask a believer, where is god? they can’t answer
you… what does belief in god do for you? Who knows…
for it has no reality within it… I might go to heaven..
says a believer… and then what? That belief has
no value because it isn’t true… where is heaven?
who knows? there is no evidence or facts that can
show us the existence of heaven…it is a blind belief
that has no basis in reality… one might say, there is
a god… ok, where? show me god? and they can’t do so…
and just as importantly, what benefit can I gain by
such a belief? Heaven? there isn’t one… how do I
benefit from a non-existent place…
give me a worldly benefit for the belief in
god? There isn’t one…

there is no reality or proof for the existence of god…
Given that, why should I even entertain that idea?

What value or benefit do I get from belief in a non-existent
god?

Kropotkin

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:grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes: How can you say theism is stagnant, when atheism is just as stagnant?

You’re no better than they are - you are just as foolish!

Both of you are rigid in your ways, and let pride get in the way of what is actually reasonable.

Air & Water:
:grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes: How can you say theism is stagnant, when atheism is just as stagnant?

You’re no better than they are - you are just as foolish!

Both of you are rigid in your ways, and let pride get in the way of what is actually reasonable.

K: and what is reasonable?

Kropotkin

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Oh please! There is no searching, because it is unknown and will always be unknown. But that doesn’t mean there is no god(s).

Air & Water:
Oh please! There is no searching, because it is unknown and will always be unknown. But that doesn’t mean there is no god(s).

K: and why should I seek out what is so unknown, that I can’t
find an answer/evidence/proof? there is no evidence or proof of god…
Where is the beef?

This is my entire point… to hold onto a value/belief
that has no existence in reality… it is something that
lies within the mind, not in reality… to hold onto a
value/belief that has no evidence or facts is idiotic…
for there is no movement or something to gain from
such a belief… it is static/stationary… and leads us
nowhere…

Kropotkin

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Exactly, so stop trying to search out the impossible to know. Who’s telling you to search? Those Christians probably :roll_eyes:

But don’t be as closed minded as the theists are. It is funny, because the atheists claim to be the opposite of theism, but yet both are closed minded.

  • Opposites - theism - atheism

  • Same closed mindset, dishonest, and prideful - theism - atheism

  • Open mindset, honest, and humble - agnosticism

  • centre position that is above theism and atheism - agnosticism.

Atheism is equally as foolish as theism.

Atheism is stationary. It leads people nowhere.

Agnosticism is the most reasonable belief when it comes to the god question.

You should be one - not an atheist.

Atheism claims that there is no god - there’s no convincing evidence there is no god either.

Air & Water:
Atheism claims that there is no god - there’s no convincing evidence there is no god either.

K: I’ll let you think about that statement for a while…
and then, maybe, perhaps you might see where
that statement is in error… take your time…
and get back to me when you see the mistake
you made…

Kropotkin

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@Peter_Kropotkin

Gaza says inside of Palestine… :clown_face:

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??? What ??? Wh

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Um I have plenty of experience arguing with atheists, there is nothing at error with my thinking. You are in error, and your pride makes you refuse you are at fault.

Air & Water:
Atheism claims that there is no god - there’s no convincing evidence there is no god either.

K: I am not surprised that you can’t see it…
let us change the words a bit…

Atheism claims there is no unicorns… there is no convincing evidence
there is no unicorns either…

Now how would I go about finding ‘‘evidence’’ for no
unicorns? What evidence would one need to find
''no unicorns?"

Kropotkin

It can be shown, no unicorns exist. Substantial evidence for this.

It cannot be shown that there is no god. Why do you think a supernatural being that is way out of your reach and much more intelligent than all of us, would care to show oneself to you, Hmmmm?

Air & Water:
It can be shown, no unicorns exist. Substantial evidence for this.

It cannot be shown that there is no god. Why do you think a supernatural being that is way out of your reach and much more intelligent than all of us, would care to show oneself to you, Hmmmm?

K: and what is this ‘‘Substantial evidence’’ for no unicorns?
please feel free to show me the ‘‘Substantial evidence’’…

Kropotkin