Equality

All human beings are of equal worth as human beings. When you compare a human as a being, you find that he or she is equal to all other people as a being. At the level of being, we are all of equal worth.

We are each of different worth in terms of our doing. What one person can do and their actual achievements can differ greatly from individual to individuals. This is a secondary sense of worth, independent from our foundational sense of worth as a being.

Nothing a person does can eliminate their foundational worth as a human being. As a being, all people deserve to be given dignity by their fellow human beings.

Worth in doing is separate and different from worth in being. A man or woman who can do something well is not better, as a being, than another people who cannot do the same task as well. They have a difference in worth as doers not as beings.

A man who has accomplished much beneficial work in his life is not better as a being than the man who has accomplished very little beneficial work. As beings they are both of equal worth. We are all at the same exact level of being. We differ only in our doing.

Hi xander,

Very true. I would take it even further. All living things deserve the same respect we accord ourselves. Unfortunately, we treat life in a rather cavalier fashion. In too much of the world, even human life is cheap. We aren’t too impressive as an animal species sharing space on this planet.

JT

Xanderman and tentative, I think you’ll like address this problem in relation to social classess. Do you think you can do this? Do you have an ideal way for our society?

[contented edited by ILP]

I give the obvious anwser here: by basic moral values. Philosophy doesn’t go beyond what’s human.

Do’ers are causes… their value/worth is extrinsic. Meaning they have value just by possessing the ability to cause a valuable act/service in relation to others.

I want to say that
Be’ers are effects, their value is intrinsic in being or attaining a certain form which is to say, value is an inherent result of living and being human, as opposed to anything else, insofar as all possess the potential to be of value in relation to others. In other words, being human, one possesses the potential to be a do’er.

I find it strange that people speak of Christian values and say that they are not Christians.

Another person’s worth is determined by what that person can do for you. People are not of equal worth for different people do different things for us.

A basic standard of living should NOT be a birth right. Instead, the standard of living should be earned. If the standard of living is earned, then we have justice. You get what you put in.

If we all become Christians, then we are all equal before God.

“I find it strange that people speak of Christian values and say that they are not Christians.”

Nothing strange about that. Christians preach konwing what moral values of man are.

“If we all become Christians, then we are all equal before God.”

Imagine: two people died, see god in heaven. One rich old fool who drunk himself to death; one kind bright young man killed by a tsunami. God says to them: “Blessed you all are, for you are equal before me.”…
Very uplifting and exciting right?

We treat plant life in a cavalier fashion, too. You’ll probably laugh, but I’ve talked to spiritualists that claim to be able to feel the “aura” of plants and that they feel pain and fear. I’ve personally read studies where scientists have attached the equivalent of EKGs to plants, then subjected them to negative stimuli (like fire). The plants do display an electrical reaction that could be interpreted as fear.

As for us being or not being “impressive as an animal species sharing space on this planet”, I suppose that’s subjective. Lions eat other animals and don’t seem to experience any angst over the morality of it. When a fox kills and eats a rabbit, no one cries out that a crime has been committed. But I view humans as just an animal with opposeable thumbs and SUVs- so long as we eat what we kill it’s no different than when any other carnivore does so.

We do seem to use more resources than we should “need”, but who’s to say that’s not just the ecology of humans? Some animals have claws and fangs, we have fire and steel.

Pureasonist

What makes you think the “rich old fool who drunk himself to death” has any less of a soul than “bright young man killed by a tsunami”? It is very uplifting to know that there will be equality for Christians. We Christians are not of this world, so we do not care if that man is rich or poor, tall or short, fat or skinny… for all souls are judged equally before God.

Toucheeeeeeee!

But I see that you completely missed my point.

Gee, I didn’t know you had a point. No wonder I missed.

PoR youre a real piece of work. dont take this the wrong way, im not calling you stupid, just a hypocrite with strange, discombobulated values.

you didnt know that lots of religions have the same ideas as jesus? and that loving neighbors is self evident?

oh… no you didnt know. you know what i find real strange? guess what i find real strange, it kind of sounds like your first quote up there, with a few terms changed around. has to do with cross avatars.

and what are they judged based on? their treatment of other humans and adherence to the golden rule? or whether or not they believe that jesus farted on friday? for the love of god dont tell me its the latter.

Humanism (as the thw thinking that “developed” human rights and the like) assumes not only rights for human beings but also some kind of moral obligations.

In cold theory, i would say that you are correct. But can you actually believe that Mother Theresa and Hitler are equal in being? Cannot completley ignore their difference in worth when you judge them in being?

Pinnacle of Reason

So the only inequality or difference between people, in the eyes of God, is if they are or are not a Christian, yes?

Therefore a Christian, who treats non-Christians as unequal to them is acting in accordance with God, yes?

Values are not subject to copyright or ownership. No religion, sect or creed owns any particular values. They merely make use of them and promote them.

Let me ask you this. Every human being is equal in that we all have a soul, yes? Our soul is the very core and essence of our being, yes? Then how are we not all foundationally equal?

I would say that what we do does make a difference, and this is a SECONDARY sense of worth. I am saying that as our primary, foundational sense of worth, we are all equal. I want to promote universal human dignity.

I might hate every single thing that I see you do, and I don’t hate you. I don’t hate you because you are foundationally equal to me.

Deeds can be judges as meritorious or shameful, but this does nothing to erode the foundational worth of the human being doing the deeds.

thinktank

We cannot discuss universal equality without bring up that modern epitome of evil, Hitler.

What he did was horrible beyond all normal comprehension. He did attorious things.

Can I revile the deeds and spare the man who did them? I do not know if I am that clear sighted. I want to be. I want to say that I can despise everything that Hitler did and not despise Hitler himself.

I think this is where humility comes into play. In acknowledging Hitler the man as my equal I can see how each and every one of us is capable of great wickedness. Our neutrality gives us equal freedom to do harmful or beneficial deeds.

If I see Hitler as a monster, something completely other than human, than I might falsely imagine that this capacity does not lay hidden within all men.

Psychologists and sociologist trying to get a grip on the Nazi practices found that there was nothing fundamentally different between those who had committed atrocities and the so-called normal person. We all can become monsters.

We are all a potential Hitler and a potential Mother Teresa. We can only do our best to lean towards the good.

Of course we’re all equal. Nobody asked to be born and everyone has to die. We find ourselves among other people doing the same thing. Waiting. No one can be better than another because nothing endures, and a greater life amounts to the same thing a tragic life amounts to in the end. After it is all said and done, they are equal.

Unfortunately for eternity man has been fighting himself while the opposition is fate and the universe. To be immortal is the only task worth achieving, it is the only thing that everyone is lacking. Where everyone lacks the same thing they are equal, no other qualities endure anyway.

If all human beings are of equal ‘worth’, then what is your criterion for ‘worth’? Is there some inherent value that all human beings possess? If so, what is it?

What does this mean? If all human beings are equal, then they can’t be judged.

Hi xander,

I thought about this a bit more, and have come to the conclusion that we aren’t all equal, even at birth. I suppose that as theory, we ought to be equal in being, but the reality is different. There are many differences that make themselves evident in nurture. Born into the right culture, the right home, can offer significant differences. But that is beside the point. There are many differences that start with our genetic makeup, some of which give greater or lesser capabilities before we are born. A child born to a severely malnourished mother in sub-saharan africa (or our urban ghettos) may not have received the pre-natal care needed to be ‘equal’ with the child whose mother had the best care available. We all have the same theoretical potential, but no individual come’s into ‘being’ truly equal.

JT

their potential for doing might be ‘less efficient’, but what they essential are is not. they deserve to be just as happy as the average human