Esoteric Buddhism?

““Jumping around”? “In view of others”? You’re surpassing yourself in dishonesty!”

Well, Ive seen your exercises when we lived together, you were jumping up and down with weights, and later on you wrote how you made sure your underage neighbor girl would see you. I don’t doubt this is good for your energy levels… it just doesn’t facilitate esoteric Buddhism.

As for me being dishonest with myself - that supposes you have known me, which your notions of exuberance preclude - mostly I was dishonest in my indulgence of you… my restraint in expressing myself - my honesty to you shows mainly in my film about you.

Trump, I was clearly mistaken there… (even though initially my only concern was the democrats zest for war and he seemed a way out of that) and I am certainly not dishonest about that. I am not nearly as good at dishonesty as you are, I could certainly never make it work for me. Thats also why I couldn’t hold your lifelong job for more than two months.

Well, yes, Buddhism is basically Epicureanism, albeit in the strictest sense:

“Epicurus was a hedonist, meaning he taught that what is pleasurable is morally good and what is painful is morally evil. He idiosyncratically defined ‘pleasure’ as the absence of suffering and taught that all humans should seek to attain the state of ataraxia, meaning ‘untroubledness’, a state in which the person is completely free from all pain or suffering.”

But why then use terms like “ease” or “peace”? Why not call it the supreme excitement or exhilaration, which is how people like Jakob have always idolized it? The thing is that that would amount to the same thing.

Still, it’s true that I consider myself cast forth into my “natural” sphere of Hod (“Splendor” in Qabalah), which sits on the left side of the Tree of Life and thereby the right side of Adam Kadmon, which corresponds to the left hemisphere, of course. But, speaking of Advaita, consider an important name/form of Kali, Chamunda. She’s called Chamunda because she has slain the demons Chanda and Munda. My point being that Advaita does not go beyond the Two to the One, but goes beyond both to the Two-In-One (Advaita itself meaning simply “Untwoness”, i.e. it points to the One in express contrast with the Two).

Another clever, ingenious little lie. I called your rausch excitement. And I did not idolize the bliss before the ultimate, I enjoyed the experience of it. Stillness, I expressly called it.

Sat Chit Ananda

Bliss before the absolute, I said. Stillness, I said.

You truly are the most deceitful little rat Ive ever known. The willfulness of your deceit surprise me every time. But it is in part because you are a barbarian without the capacity for bliss that you must deny its existence - therefore even deny that I mentioned, described it.

That must have been an exception, if it’s even true. If so, I didn’t prefer to do my workout in view of you, it just happened to be sometimes. I may very well have exaggerated, obviously (or so I thought) clowning for your amusement. Apparently you didn’t get the joke, then.

That was very late in my life, when I’d decided to shine forth as the Dionysos that I am because of those “Evangelical” neighbors, you fact-twister… And yes, that other neighbor girl would sometimes see me (and smile), but I was by no means “making sure” of that. What an uncleanly genius you are.

I saw clearly what he was back around 2013 or so. I remember it clearly. Because he was your friend I tried several times to engage him with lengthy and honest writing. You may recall that. Those posts are still here somewhere buried in ILP history. And yet all I ever got in return from him were oddly deliberately irrational speculations, false presumptions of some kind of academic persona and pseudo-intellectual narcissist hissing, like the mindless ravings of a nest of vipers.

Anti-value. Anti-self-valuing as time-displaced suicidality. This is a concept far from being merely an abstraction in thought.

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Dude, you are so completely deluded… You’ve even suggested that I was to blame for Jakob’s “poisoning” (and so may he have), whereas it’s blatantly obvious to anyone of deeper insight that it was much rather your feeding him in his megalomania that pushed him over the brink of madness. (I did practice exotericism toward him, but that was because I was dependent on him then for, not only my own housing, but also that of my girlfriend and our cat. At heart he’s a petty tyrant, and I did much the same thing as Heidegger did with the (pseudo-)Nazis. Yes, at the very least Heidegger had personal experience with (the need for) Defensive Esotericism!)

Crawl, worm.

No one even reads you anymore. How does that feel?

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I disproved you over a decade ago. Then I got bored.

Why you still even here?

Oh noes, imagine that! :sweat_smile:

What do I care about my extroverted thinking? I’m an introverted thinker first and foremost. Why do you think I was able to postpone posting those first two of my recent posts for so long? (I wrote them or started to write them immediately after the posts to which they are replies.)

But why did I post them, after all? Out of the inner or higher aspect of the striving for distinction, of course! It doesn’t have to be a big positive distinction, it may very well be a being-disvalued.

Of course you did.

Why do you seek the “truth”?

You happily receive and use my philosophy and apartment, not to mention my quite tender friendship/support over the many years of your depression (before your transformation you now and then expressed gratitude) - and meanwhile imagine I am a tyrant… about to kick you out of the house? Why did you register in that house, knowing it would set the owner on the trail of you staying there illegally, so that we would both lose it? So callous… when I was in Canada I asked my parents to bring you food, as I worried… for which you never thanked them… just gracelessly took it as your right, like the heartless scum you turned out to be…

I was actually poisoned twice because some scumbag here made a social media account for me, seeding it to communities here, representing me as a racist, using part of a hillbilly sketch I once did with pezer and stupidly uploaded. I cant even walk in the streets now without being threatened and derided.

I was perfectly fine before the poisoning happened, had just finished my album, was living a calm and happy life, away from the forums, making a song each day, (about to send you a nirvana live box) and they were good. My only aggression to you has been online, in response to the seething dishonesty you keep employing, displaying it again, ignoring and misquoting what I wrote about nirvana.

You have simply ignored the exalted Sat Chit Ananda bit to be able to keep with the barbaric interpretation of Buddha as an Epicurus. All of that subtle Asian might and virtue goes right by you - all you are able to take from it are the Rudras and Kalis - the darkening aspects.

Do you remember me as abhi-pratapta? How you were eager to impress me and how generous I was to you? How surprised you were to learn that was me – that is how well you have known me, that was our true relationship.

Yes in my constant generosity to him I invited him among us and kind of forced him on you… constantly promoting him… that could have even been the time he was still indignant about VO, that I had had the nerve to add something to Nietzsche…

Apparently all this time of me having his back and much more than that he thought of me as a tyrant. What a misfortune to know such a person.

Thats not what you told me then, you emphasized the girl. I was pretty disturbed about what you said, prudish as it may be. I haven’t twisted any facts that you reported.

And how could I have known you were clowning? In any case your workouts aren’t Buddhistic, precise ones, and from what you write it was clear that your meditations aren’t Buddhistic. I mention this because you and Bob are propagating a wholly European, unAsian idea of Buddhism, as neither of you has ever engaged in related practices. And both are ignorant of the fact that practice (e.g. right action, right effort, right mindfulness) is inherent.

Anyway. We can easily refute the OP, which is born out of typical boorish European ignorance of Asian purpose and grace -

“I think Buddhism’s true esotericism is that it’s essentially nihilism with some edifying window-dressing (rebirth, merit and demerit, etc.).”

By presenting what Buddha actually taught; the manifestly purposeful eightfold path.

Right concentration, i.e. the means to meditation in excellent karma - the path to bliss before the absolute.

But @Bob will insist the OP is really clever, and that nirvana occurs not by practicing this purposeful eight fold discipline, but by simply running out of fuel.

Wow, this is so completely dishonest… You threatened to kick us out of the house time and again. And you put the owner on the “trail”, by outing me while you were on the phone with them. :laughing: (Also, you signed my registration, though it’s true that I persuaded you to do so.) When you’re this mendacious about matters I know, why should I believe anything you say about matters I don’t?

A silly if well-intentioned idea on your part. Your parents as well as myself found it quite weird. But then, you had already been quite close to the brink, and moving closer, for a long time then.

Utter nonsense.

No you weren’t. You haven’t been fine for a very long time.

That’s kind of cool, that you got into Nirvana.

Or maybe all that subtle Greek might and virtue goes right by you

The fierce, fully manifested “aspects”.

And this sock-puppet master calls me dishonest…

I was disappointed, because I’d thought I was talking to someone who actually knew what he was talking about.

This must be the writing you’ve been referring to:

That teenage daughter was not the girl who smiled, by the way. I’ve never felt any sexual attraction to the latter, and not because she wasn’t pretty, but because she was like 10 and I only felt affection towards her. The teenage daughter (who was always nearer 20 than 10) grew up to be quite hot after a few years, though (but at the time the accusations began, it was again just a matter of affection, indeed to that whole family… When I saw them go on vacation, the summer before that, I wished them a nice time in my heart).

Haha, no, you forced your “Clan” on me.

Not indignant; that is your specialty. But it’s so easy to say you’re beyond Nietzsche, and I’d heard it so often before, from you and many others… But yeah, VO does add something, namely a clear and simple formula to Nietzsche’s own version of Buddhism’s “dependent origination”, which is crucial to both the Buddha’s teaching and the doctrine of the will to power. Here’s an excerpt from my final communication to the late Laurence Lampert (December 31, 2020-January 1, 2021):

::

When I last wrote you, I’d barely begun to understand my friend’s ontology yet. In the meantime, I’ve formulated it as “self-Valuing through other-Valuing” (note the Krellian capitalisation). The closest formulation by Nietzsche that I can think of is this:

“[N]o things remain but only dynamic quanta, in a relation of tension to all other dynamic quanta: their essence lies in their relation to all other quanta, in their ‘effect’ upon the same[.]” (Workbook Spring 1888 14 [79]; cf. [80].)

This is closely related to the Buddhist doctrine of dependent origination. And in fact, in the Summer of last year, I basically became a secular Buddhist […]

‘Postulate of being as self-Lightening.—“[F]orce is the drive to discharge itself within a field of forces enacting the same necessity. […W]ill to power has no aim but discharge of the total quanta of its force at every moment; such discharge is always an event within a relatively unstable field of such impulses to discharge, the relation among them being simply that of greater or lesser; all beings are ultimately more or less stable collections of such impulses and themselves express the fundamental quality of impulse, will to power.” (Lampert, What a Philosopher Is, pp. 264 and 266n29.)’

What I’d always missed in my friend’s ontology was precisely the notion of “will to power”. So while I still think “self-Valuing through other-Valuing” is a step up from “will to power” in some respect, I also think it loses something essential and is therefore a step back as well. Well then, I regard “self-Lightening” as another step up because it does include the notion of “will to power”. As I wrote a few days later:

‘I now think the accumulation [of forces] is secondary, whereas the discharge is primary. I can’t even say the accumulation is the means whereas the discharge is the end, for this would ascribe an intentionality to the accumulation process which I don’t think there need be. When power is discharged, of course it doesn’t disappear into nothingness; it is discharged somewhere, which means someplace else is getting charged… At the most basic level, accumulation is simply this getting charged. And the feeling of power is not in the accumulation, but in the discharge (seine Kraft herauslassen, letting out one’s force). This is why I now call the will to power a “self-Lightening”: the feeling of power is the feeling of getting “lighter”; and the Lightening gets “lighter” by this very Lightening: it becomes less in one place but greater (“heavier”) in another. It never comes to a standstill!’

Around the same time, I put that thing about discharge leading to accumulation in terms of individuals (though it probably hardly applies to individuals; that was just the context in which I wrote it): ‘I think what came first was the impulse to give oneself up completely (“to not exist at all”), but often this inadvertently led to our getting something back in return, which in turn sustained us, so we could keep giving parts of us away, and as long as we got stuff back we remained in existence.’

For more on this, see the appendix below.

[…]

Appendix:

In other words, ‘[f]irst and foremost, beings aren’t self-Valuings through other-Valuings, but self-Lightenings, that is to say Lightenings of those very Lightenings. The feeling of power, the feeling of—free—will, is most basically the feeling of getting lighter.’ And it’s not just that self-Lightenings charge other self-Lightenings. Most fundamentally, self-Lightenings are self-Dischargings in(to) space… Some more formulations of this idea:

  1. ‘At the most basic—quantum—level, all “beings” are getting lighter all the time, less all the time, meaning more and more space emerges. This is the infinite universe-equivalent of the “expansion” of the universe.’ (Logically, it makes no difference whether the universe is expanding or everything in it is contracting.)

  2. ‘Discharge of force ultimately means that force (energy, “matter”) becomes space… The Big Bang is the absolute maximum accumulation of force discharging itself into space (the heat death of the universe is when the universe almost entirely consists of space).’

  3. ‘[M]y thesis: space is the show-freedom [schijnvrijheid] of bodies. Every body is a light source (even though most light is invisible to humans: infrared, ultraviolet, etc.), and indeed I mean “show-freedom” in a dual sense: the apparent freedom to give light. In truth we give off space all the time, whether we want to or no; ever more space emerges, all bodies become relatively smaller all the time. Space is light that has not yet given light, given off energy; as soon as it’s done this it’s gone, no longer light but part of a body. This body “in turn” (really at the same time) gives off space, “radiation”. When we see light, this means the space between us and the light source has been reduced to zero: for the space between us and the sun this takes approximately eight minutes, but in the meantime the sun also adds a (more or less) equal amount of space: it is thence that we do not scorch our eyes…’

  4. ‘[S]elf-Lightening into light-space is not so much discharge into the void as it is discharge into void: the self-Lightening becomes light-space, never completely but more and more (approximating an asymptote). The discharge creates more void, or more precisely it is a Creating of more void (empty space, vacuum).’

  5. '[S]elf-Lightening in light-space is not even a particle(‘s) becoming a quantum of space, but the relative un-Kinking of a wave of space. The whole is infinite, but its “parts” can never be infinitesimal.’

[Note. ‘I now think self-lightening in light-space is a particle’s uncollapsing into one or more quanta of a wave of space as well as the relative unkinking of that wave.’]

I honestly don’t remember threatening to kick you out. But I suppose it’s true. I remember being very stressed since mid 2015, where I had a nasty encounter with a Gypsy in Italy and a lot of personal stuff was stolen. Something strange happened then. I see on record that I became irrational, hostile after that, started ‘the philosophers clan’, quickly lost respect here. Shieldmaiden was very concerned, tried to steer me away from that disastrous idea.

It’s also true that I was poisoned - I did not just slip into a psychosis out of megalomania. That is your construction. It was chemical and very violently so. The poisoning- I had been warned over a year in advance that people were going to harm me, when that account must have been in circulation for some time. I was also increasingly followed and harassed by black people, spat at in the streets since mid 2020. I had no idea what I had done wrong but it was evident I was being seen as a racist by a lot of people. Despite that I was making nice music and enjoying life in the East of the country. Spent a lot of time in the forest. I was nowhere near madness. My music had become disciplined, skilled, lucid, and it was mostly what mattered to me.

March 2023, a few months after my first poisoning, which led to a lot of internal physical damage and a loss of musical inspiration, I was told I will be killed. Right after that I was poisoned for the second time, which is when the psychotic symptoms started, and I lost my spiritual/shamanic powers.

About abhi pratapta - that was a genuine investigation into what I might be through a Sanskrit name. Names change me. Like barbarianhorde was a liberated aspect of me. With abhi pratapta I was just encountering Shiva. I didn’t pretend to be anything I wasn’t. You took the thread in the direction of Savitri Devi (if I remember correctly) then at which point my inspiration faded.

I disagree with the self lightening notion, or do not see it as a continuation of the WtP and VO- it lacks the epistemic aspect, which was such a relief to have brought to light in such a fertile way, fusing ontology and epistemology, drastically increasing the power of notion to represent being, closer to knowledge as the embodiment of being (which I always saw as Heidegger’s aim)- and I do not think beings become less all the time (nor do I think WtP is always satisfied simply by discharge). VO rather sees them often accumulate value, substance, which is more in accordance with what has cosmically been happening. Compared to the particles after the big bang, bodies are a lot larger and more complex, to begin with.

I do have respect for your shamanic development, even if only because you are doing well for yourself.

This might all be true. I half hope it is.

Might this not be the reason, then, why you think my calling myself Sauwelios transformed me?

[I think the transformation you referred to was my finding the pride of free will in the face of obstacles and adversity. I think I entered Geburah through Tiphareth then, I mean attained the ranks that correspond to them. And I think I remained in Geburah until 2013, when I finally entered Chesed and then, false-starting in 2017 but really beginning in 2019, the Abyss. I think the name Sauwelios really only applies to my Geburah period; but I also think that, in graduating from Binah to Chokmah, “formulat[ing My]self as the Finite”, namely as Athelema, I have been cast forth/out/down into my “natural” rank, which corresponds to Hod, as I said. And Hod, which I associate with the Jungian function of introverted Thinking, may strongly remind you of Geburah, which I associate with extroverted Thinking. This may be why you’re getting Sauwelios vibes even though I haven’t written under that name here for quite a while.]

Can you explain why/how the WtP and VO have the epistemic aspect/are also an epistemology, while Athelema—as I call it—doesn’t/isn’t?