Essay Help: Slave revolt (Nietzsche)

Sorry if this doesn’t belong here.

k, I have to do a philosophy paper on the following topic:

Explain how the slave revolt transforms master morality into slave morality. Why does Nietzsche assess this revaluation of values so negatively? Do you think that Nietzsche is correct in lambasting the decline of aristocratic values?

I already desribed the first part, that was easy. The second part I have a rough idea about, and that how Nitezsche didn’t like it because he felt that the way the slaves revolted was wrong. That they should have killed the masters instead of just cheating them out of their value system. But I can’t think of what else to add

This should be a 5-6 page paper, but I’m stuck at like two. I don’t know what else to add. Any ideas or sites that would further help explain this would be nice. I’m searching around google, but nothing comes about why he didn’t like the slave revolt. Only a line or two in the entire thing.

Any ideas?

The reason Nietzsche didn’t “like” the slave revolt in morality is, ultimately, because of its consequences:

This is the essence of Nietzsche’s problem with Slave Rule (democracy); it is this loathing that creates wings for him, wings for his dream of the Superman:

If you are asking if because a slavish class of people revolt, does that mean that the “victors” morality is therefore a slavish one, I would say no.

I’m not sure I understand what you think needs to be explained.

You might mean that a slave morality is decadent through its resentment of a more powerful morality, that of the ruling class.

Nietzsche struggled with this simply because the interchangeability of the metaphors of “power” (Spinoza undermined these mistakes quite thoroughly) do not allow it a definitive meaning such that I could point at an example of “power” and at another example, one of “weakness,” with confidence that those lines drawn are black and white.

Nietzsche’s redundency was in his examination of slavish morals that follow his nonteleological model of existence as he declares “there is no goal” and then a moment later “…but this, this, and this is decadent.”

What I am saying here is that we cannot have a metaphysical grasp on Nietzsche’s Ethics where he denies “the other worldy” and dualism in general, and then assume that an action can be “decadent,” or “powerful,” or whatever other metaphor is used to fit the occasion.

My views of Nietzsche are controversial. I don’t even call him a philosopher, really. He’s a mutant psychologist who can write better than any man alive (except Kierkegaard) but who couldn’t keep up with someone of the likes of Wittgenstein if his life depended on it, in, dare I say, the rigors of synchronic thinking.

Again I think I might misunderstand you. I thought Nietzsche believed that this revaluation was a good thing. This historical moment when “Europe forget about its God” and had to move on…etc. I mark that moment as the beginning of the end of despotism. Nietzsche was tilling the soil for socialism/marxism…

“…if the working class ever rules, we’re finished…but if they do not, we’re really finished.”-- Fritz (notes and letters)

(I can post the entire letter at anyone’s request)

This is another dilemma Nietzsche had faced. On one hand, people are not equal, and this eliminates real altruistic approaches to solving moral problems. The herd serves only to promote its greatest exceptions; but the herd is necessary in the production of this exception. There’s a reference to the slave/master dichotomy and how it is left unsolved.

Despite what Nietzsche believes, his idea of aristocracy is somewhat tongue-in-cheek, if you will. The aristocrat, the bourgeoise, the religious caste…all parasites to economy.

Anyway, it shouldn’t matter what Fritz did or didn’t think about the slave revolt when he doesn’t assert that morals can be objective and therefore classified as “strong” and “weak”.

Well, I’ll fess up and say it’s been awhile since last I read Nietzsche, so I’m going to give this a go from memory as best I can.

I think for Nietzsche, “aristocratic values” equate with having the power and ability to think more freely. In other words, the “working class” consitutes the “herd” with their “slave morality” and such. The only escape is through aristocratic values, that is to say that the aristocrats are not quite so concerned with the working class because they are “beyond” the working class. They have the freedom to do things and to consider things beyond a person’s average ability–they are not concerned so much with the rat race.

I would say from this perspective he has a point; but the problem is as I think someone else has already pointed out, it is difficult for one to exist without the other. The irony is that if the “superman” ever actually came to populate the Earth, Nietzsche’s entire philosophy would be blown to smithereens for there would be nothing left to despise to prepare for progress. Everyone would simply be self-actualized in a manner of speaking, although I’m not sure they’d all be quite as glamourous as Nietzsche may have envisoned.

So, I suppose in answer to the question, Nietzsche’s commentary about aristocratic values was PERFECT for his purposes; but we have to keep in mind his purpose was to indicate by and large that reality blew total ass. It makes good points about the problems with the working class, but it does so from the platform of the existence thereof. Nietzsche is locked in an embrace or a dance with that which he despises. He despises it so he might have joy, but one might argue that if what he despised where not there, he’d have no joy, and that would be a worse fate.

I suppose the relevant question would be “Are aristocratic values truly superior and would they exist if there was no working class?” I think that is a rather hard question to answer, and like so many other big questions I’d have to go with “It depends”.

Interesting…

Thanks for the help ^.^

détrop, those aren’t my questions. Thats what I have to answer in an essay. So I can’t really reword them :stuck_out_tongue:

Also, thanks shinton. I was thinking something along those lines as well. Although i’m still not sure about what I’m writing lol…

To be honest, this is my first philosophy papers. Its my first real University essay aswell o.0

Oh come on! You’re not going to let a few measley course requirements stop you from doing real philosophy, are you?

You know you aren’t going to get a job with that degree so I think you should just drop out and come do philosophy with us at ILP.

(could somebody here who knows where Gamer’s ILP song is, please post a link to it?)

The Superman has actually populated the earth:

“Even in the past this higher type has appeared often: but as a fortunate accident, as an exception, never as something willed.”
[The Antichristian, section 3.]

What you mean is probably Supermankind. What would happen if this existed?

“History shows: the strong races decimate one another: through war, thirst for power, adventurousness; the strong affects: wastefulness - (strength is no longer hoarded, spiritual disturbance arises through excessive tension); their existence is costly; in brief - they ruin one another; periods of profound torpor supervene: all great ages are paid for- The strong are subsequently weaker, more devoid of will, than the weak average.
They are races that squander. “Duration” as such has no value: one might well prefer a shorter but more valuable existence for the species.- It would remain to be proved that, even so, a richer yield of value would be gained than in the case of the shorter existence; i.e., that man as summation of strength acquires a much greater quantum of mastery over things if life is as it is- We stand before a question of economics----”
[Nietzsche, The Will to Power, section 864.]

And this is where the great paradox arises, which makes the answer to the last question (about lambasting) possibly most profound. For such a decimation of man would be a good thing in the light of overpopulation, the ruination of the earth and the like. The decimation of man might be desirable precisely for the sake of the preservation of the species and of the planet. But Nietzsche’s philosophy rules out such a “for the sake”:

“Will To Power [WTP] is opposed to Social Darwinism [SD]; whereas SD talks of evolution’s will to survival, Nietzsche argued that Nature does not seek to so much survive, as to FLOURISH.
WTP describes that constant expansion of things even to the point of their own extinction and destruction [and hence not always to survival].”
[Moody Lawless.]

And this is precisely the will of the man beyond the last man: of the man who wants to go down

Such is Nietzsche’s Superman: he who has overcome the longing for backworlds and paradises, and now finds his paradise in the moment:

“1. My endeavor to oppose decay and increasing weakness of personality. I sought a new center.
2. Impossibility of this endeavor recognized.
3. Thereupon I advanced further down the road of disintegration - where I found new sources of strength for individuals. We have to be destroyers!-- I perceived that the state of disintegration, in which individual natures can perfect themselves as never before - is an image and isolated example of existence in general. To the paralyzing sense of general disintegration and incompleteness I opposed the eternal return.”
[The Will to Power, section 417.]

If existence is the God Shiva dancing, then to be an image and isolated example of existence in general is to be a dancing destroyer oneself. The dance, however, is ultimately a round dance.


[size=75]Zarathustra dancing upon the dwarf, the spirit of gravity[/size]

I am actually doing a very, very similar topic for my thesis.
I would suggest going into resentment, the bad conscience, guilt, and will to power. The slave revolt begins with resentment against the ruling class. The early Christians held values such as meekness, other-wordly salvation, whereas the ruling Roman classes held values such as strength, honour and courage. Resentment is a psychological reaction these Roman aspired values. The next step was to inject a bad conscience into the masters and make them feel guitly for ruling. The bad conscience itself wasn’t that bad a problem for the masters, even the Greeks suffered a bad conscience, what was the vital turning point was when a moralisation of the bad conscience occured. The bad conscience was then no longer interpreted as to feel guilt for ruling over one’s fellow man, it was re-interpreted as transgressing God’s laws. The ‘sting of conscience’ was then to be known as the ‘voice of God in man’. The formerly ‘free’ man who was a wild, roaming individual discharging their passions outwardly were now turned back against himself. The Christians now really have the masters by the balls. The priests were now the representitives of God on earth, therefore they are now the new masters (but in a slavish form) and thus they created their own form of ‘will to power’ by subjecting the herd to its so-called divine inspired values.

Nietzsche disliked the slave revolt, not only because of its manifestations, but because of the smug way it was carried out. The Christians claimed to be emancipating man, whereas in reality they wanted power. Nietzsche’s own method of power is a form of sublimation, control your passions and forge them into something creative, not thinking that power can be had by ruling over others under the slogans of ‘freedom’, ‘democracy’, or whatever other promiscuous word our lovely leaders like to use today. Anyway, there is a few ideas for you to chew on.

  1. It devours it
    2a) Because the values which were devoured were his
    2b) Since he held aristocratic values, he might have been called correct in lambasting their devourers a little.

I wonder if the Money Masters should have a bad conscience.

http://www.themoneymasters.com/presiden.htm

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1339460790371560078&q