Ethics in a nutshell

Ethics deals with what is good for a human person and what is good in a person.

Hence it would be advisable to understand the good in order to explain ethics. Fortunately, the Axiom of Value helps us to do that. [size=85]{The definition in the Axiom deliberately accounts for a specific good, rather than for every vague, ambiguous usage of “good” in general.}[/size] Do not be ‘put off’ by the symbolic logic; I’ll keep it to a minimum !

THE GOOD

What is the Axiom? It says “a good x” will mean the following:
(1) x is a member of the class-concept C;
(2) Cs have attributes a, b, c, d, etc.;
(3) x has a, x has b, x has c, x has d, etc.
(If x has only the properties a, b, and c then it is valuable, but not fully good. Good is a complete match between the meaning of the concept under which x falls and the actual features, qualities of x.)

What does all that logic jargon mean, in plain English? It says that as the actual approaches the ideal, we tend to say about it that it is becoming valuable, or that “it has value!” and the closer it gets to our picture of the ideal, the more valuable it is becoming …until finally, it is a close match. Then we will call the situation: “Good.” So when an actual something (or someone) lives up to its ideal (its full meaning) we tend to describe it as a good one. [The Systemic theoretical level is not to be confused with the Intrinsic living process of evaluation (prizing, ranking, preferring.) Let’s be aware that theory and practice are two different things.]

Let us define a “saint” as “a genius at goodness.” [We could take, as an illustration, Francis of Assisi, or – as a non-Catholic example, take the Dalai Lama.] The closer any human gets to being a saint, the more we find such a person attractive: we want to be around an individual who would – figuratively speaking – give us “the shirt off his back.” We tend to like those who love us unconditionally …or at least give us profound respect, just the way we are at the moment. They treat us as though we were magnificent.

For – according to the latest research in the theory of needs – we all crave recognition; it is one of the basic needs. If kids can’t get attention by being good, they often get it by being a little mischievous. If that doesn’t work, they become delinquents or deviants. It happens. Let’s now discuss: What is ethics?

ETHICS

It is a perspective on individuals – on conscious humans – that differs from the anatomical-physiological perspective, and from the psycho-social perspective. The anatomical view deals with systems of the body. The psychological view deals with behavior, goal-seeking, functions such as memory, belief, perception, attitude, motivation, etc. The sociological point of view deals with groupings, status, rank, mores, organization, social integration, social conflict, interaction, cohorts, etc.

The ethical perspective sees each individual as uncountably precious, or to state it more exactly, as of indefinitely-high value. All else in ethics follows from that! If you reflect upon it you will realize that this is so.

For how would you treat – or interact with – an individual you regarded as that valuable? Wouldn’t you at least exhibit a modicum of respect? Or if you couldn’t bring yourself to give the party respect, wouldn’t you – out of self-respect – at least be courteous? Even for the “worst slob” or “monster” wouldn’t you hold the door open so that they could go out first? This is a gesture that shows that you are not selfish; and selfishness is the very opposite of ethical conduct.

SELFISHNESS

What is “selfishness”? It is a “me first” attitude. We see it when someone goes to the front of the line, pushes himself ahead of you to check out with the cashier… assuming there is no emergency or some other mitigating factor. The selfish person slices the pie, takes out the biggest slice for him/herself, and leaves the remains for the others.

Another condition, that varies inversely with morality, is hypocrisy. {Maybe - as Johnathan Haidt, a Moral Psychologist, has observed – we are “all hypocrites.”} This means we do not “practice what we preach.” In other words, our conduct diverges from our professed (or believed) ideals more than 40% of the time. I mentioned the concept “morality.” What do I mean by that?

MORALITY

Let us define “morality” as: “self being true to Self.” The first usage of ‘self’ alludes to outward bodily conduct, observable behavior; the second use of ‘Self’ refers to one’s belief system, one’s value-structure, one’s self-identity, one’s self-image. The Self is a part of the self-concept, X, where X is one’s proper name.

The self-concept has the same three components as any concept has, namely, a name (label, designator), a meaning, and an application. The meaning (logically) is a set of predicates. Let’s call them “the attributes” of the concept in question. Attributes are property-names. The application of any concept consists of the examples, cases, instances of the concept. Let us speak of them as “the referents.” They are members of the class of application.

In the case of an individual human, s/he has a proper name, a Self, and a self. If the self (one’s conduct) approximates (more and more closely until it is almost a match) one’s Self (one’s self-ideals for what a human being ought at best to be) then one is becoming moral. And the better the match, the more moral one is. Morality, moral value, like any value, is a matter of degree. As self is true to Self, as self more closely approximates Self, one is achieving a higher degree of morality. This is theory. How about practice? How does that work?

Here is where commitment and devotion comes in. [To put it into technical language, here is where a material norm becomes an obligatory norm.] If one learns that a decent human being, having self-respect, acts in such-and-such a way, has a certain kind of character, and one says to oneself, “I want to be like that. …and I want it with my head, heart and soul :exclamation: ” Then one becomes devoted to that kind of noble character, makes a habit of it, and lives it in his/her daily life. Then the theoretical Good has become the living Good.

The ethical job isn’t finished until one lives goodness in one’s daily life – until one wants to be moral, wants to be a good person, intensely, with great devotion, with heartfelt commitment!

Then one has become ethically educated. One has enlightened self-interest: s/he knows that “If you win, truly win, than I win too.” “I won’t achieve a quality life, one of maximum value, until you, and everyone of us, achieves it too.” “I can’t really advance unless I help you advance also.” This is ethical enlightenment.

To get a fuller picture, and for more detail, see the original posts in these threads:
“The Beautiful Simplicity of Ethical Concepts”
“What Is Ethics?”
“The Natural-Logical Law of Conduct”
and, of course, see
“A Concise Summary of what Ethics is about”.
Then if you still have questions, read the papers for which links are given in the signature below.

I’m willing to discuss this topic with you, but I’m not going to read the articles in the links you listed, at least not yet anyway. I read through it, and granted I would need to give it a second reading, to really analyze it, it reminded me of where I used to be at in my search for a comprehensive theory of ethics.

I’ve been there, if you want to know my experience in such a state, see my back posts, they’re litered with them. I imagine you would say I missed something. I’d take no offence at that. I’m not sure where you are coming from with this, so I guess I’d like some information on that. What I mean is, is this based mostly on personal reflection or on the work of others, and how much have you attempted to apply such ideas in your life. I’m hestitant to ask, but if you have tried appling these ideas, how did it work out, cna you give some examples?

What the righteous missed most, was their obligation to educate and train/condition long before they judge.

No, we don’t. In most cases, we have no idea what the ideal even is. But even if we do, we see value in all matter of things that aren’t near ideal.

No, we don’t.

I’m not sure how it’s at all convincing to assume that other people have the same values as you do, without some evidence for that. I don’t want to be anywhere near St Francis or the Dalai Lama. In fact, people that are too nice can be either annoying or boring. You’re really just talking about basic, textbook, Jesus/New Testament/Christian values.

Why go through all this pseudo-logical pretense about it?

If you read the literature, you will realize that it is not so.

Christian psychobabble.

There will be awkwardness among us as we declare what it is we know of what a ‘good’ person is. Mostly, the knowledge is what one experiences. So one’s question shouldn’t be, ‘how do you tell when a person is good?’ – rather it should be what it is one knows about goodness.

So, by your definition mr thinkdr we are all unethically, because we don’t help people starving on the streets or in 3rd world countries, we are selfish and egoistically, even those who think themselves as good?

People love a bargain ! That means they love to shop for value. Why not then aim to maximize the value in your life. One sure way of doing this is to add value to every situation in which you find yourself. [size=85]Among the three basic values, IV (Intrinsic Value) is the highest. So if we go in this direction of intrinsic value [/size]we will have a life full of love - [size=85]for that’s what IV means: [/size]it means getting involved, expressing love at every opportunity.

It means being creative, enthusiastic, cheerful, serene, at one with all, peaceful, loving, tender, humble, empathic, compassionate, etc. Why settle for anything less??

Once we do that what would be the result?

We then would not “dis” a person: we wouldn’t put him/her down, but instead would look for some common ground, some way to find a shared need we both have - and build on that. So any abuse or violation of an individual is an evil act, an immoral act.

Social Ethics offers principles which serve to guide our conduct as we inter-act with others.

Coercion or causing harm to others is immoral. If and when you coerce others or cause harm to them you are (to a degree) immoral. Immorality is unwise and irrational.

Any conduct that results in personal degeneration or self-abuse is both immoral and unwise. Examples could be: gluttony, laziness, self-mutilation, taking drugs, etc.

Also let us keep in mind the Ethical perspective, which is:
Regard every individual as of unlimited high value.

So think about it…. once we see ourself and others from that perspective what kind of a world would we live in?

We would then ‘do no harm’; would not indulge in genderism, rankism, racism, ageism, sexism nor any other form of abuse or indifference.

Furthermore, out of respect for ourselves we would immunize ourselves against personal corruption. We would focus more on our long-term benefit and would not be as likely to succumb to short-term temptations. We would want to form life-affirming habits.

We would want to make the world work for everyone.
We would extend a hand of friendship. We would live in harmony. Nurturing our planet is basic to our own survival and is one way to upgrade and add value to the quality of our lives. Also we would want to be kind, and to be of service. What helps you helps me; what helps me helps you. We all do better if we ALL do better.

Those who spread these ethical teachings will have a more meaningful life. So now you know. Go to it.

Hi, Stuart

Have you given the two posts I wrote that second reading yet?

If you had read the links, you would know that the basis for the new theory of Ethics being proposed is the work of others, namely, many other philosophers throughout history, eventually resulting in the breakthrough by a genius named Robert S. Hartman. He devised the ‘Axiom of Value.’ which finally defined “x is a good C” and which gave a definite meaning to good when it is a category or classification that is being described with that word; then he generalized it to other dimensions, such as for technical language and for metaphorical language. He then worked out three basic “Dimensions of Value” (S, E, and I) which turned out to have very-wide applications. [See End Note 4 in the Unified Theory. It might surprise you - as to how many values fall into place …all the correlations and patterns !!] Then I postulated the definition of “morality,” as my contribution; and we had a mini-framework on which to hang other notions pertaining to ethics.

Yes I have practiced it in my life for the past 47 years – I’m now 83 – gradually getting better at living it – and yes, it has worked out well. My relationships with others are much warmer and more loving now. When I was active in the anti-war movement, and in The Civil Rights Movement, and practiced nonviolence, I noticed that people who were about to be violently aggressive held back their kicks and punches …couldn’t seem to follow through on them. Now, the 22 neighbors and families who live in my building all live in harmony and show respect to one another, and especially treat me nice. I am grateful for that. But this project is not only about me: it is an open-source effort to build a better system of Ethics (as a cumulative body of knowledge that adds to the useful information in this world.) So check it out sometime.

I read your earlier posts and learned that you gave a good friend some ethical advice. He took it; and I gather someone cheated him, or betrayed him, and he hasn’t been able to forgive you for it. He didn’t have to take that advice. You are in no way responsible for what happened to him. It was NOT a complete system of Ethics, with distinct guidance for success in life in the face of a wide variety of likely contingencies that might arise; it did not teach him how to dodge emergencies, and the wiles of swindlers, con-artists and phonies. It did not teach him the irrationality of blaming behavior, nor that life is more about giving than getting and taking. It was likely not the best wisdom that you suggested to him. So I really don’t get the moral of the story. This I do know: you ought not to feel guilty (in the sense of "I should be punished for what I said to him - for that is a neurotic kind of ‘guilt’.) Instead you ought to work out a program so that you do not make the same mistake twice - if you are sure that you made one. I am not sure you did anything wrong. He might have - if he was gullible and too trusting. Nowhere in my theory does it say anything about the concept “trust.” The old saying, “Trust, but verify” still holds, though.

I’d also like to hear more about the theories you worked on, in order to see if I can incorporate the best of the best ideas into my general, comprehensive system. My system will always be incomplete, but - I think you will agree once you manage to study it - at least it’s coherent. Ethics covers such a broad scope of topics ! Even when it is axiomatized and made totally formal, the system will of necessity be incomplete because of Kurt Goedl’s classic theorem, It is gradually getting into the educational curriculum on the university level, and will some day filter down to the high-school level.

Any imbalanced or miss-applied virtue can become vice. In Buddhism they call it either skillful or unskillful.

However, I am slightly surprised that you would say this, as I have come to a conclusion that good can be infinite. It can be good, then more and more good. But proper execution is part of the goodness. It becomes less extreme or imbalanced as it becomes more good. So to me, “too nice” doesn’t exist, but “false nice” and “miss applied nice” also are words I would have agreed with instead. Maybe this is just the words.

I have to go with Faust on this one. Nice fits some situations and does not others and is not the same as ‘good’. People who are nice, regardless of the situation, in my experience either have a lot of built of rage or they are rather judgmental. I have no idea what it was like to be around St. Francis, but I’ve met the Dalai Lama after he gave a long, unbelievably boring speech. I mean tear your eyes out bash your head against the wall boring. And, well, he did seem very judgmental. Of course this could have been an off day.

And nice need not be replaced with mean. But niceness lacks a dynamism that is good in its place.

Like I don’t usually want to see a film that is described as primarily nice.
Or then if I came home and someone was raping my wife, I wouldn’t be nice, but I hopefully would be good anyway.

But then if the real issue is really ‘too good’ and going off into too nice is a tangent. I think what most people consider good is too conflated with nice. By some of the good people that is. Assholes tend not to make that mistake, though they make others.

To me your post leads to the question : Why and how did nice and not-nice evolve?
It seems to me that most beings contain both. The mother takes care of the babies and will be nice to them to some degree, but she has also been cruel in so far as she has been ignorant in giving birth like a machine into a world of suffering, and she may also have killed things just to feed the babies and herself.

It almost seems like nice is a freak of nature. A nature which is never itself nice.

Well, I am not sure how much I am a pure evolutionist, but I suppose it would be something like, some animals, after mutations, developed ‘getting along with peer’ traits and social animals were born. Some got really quite sophisiticated at this - after getting positive feedback from selection - and became things like herd animals and pack animals, etc. IOW it worked for them to team up, which is beyond mom’s being nice to their direct little gene carriers until the wee ones can kill or at least eat on their own.

As far as not nice, well, one could argue that eating and having an immune system are ‘not nice’, since they lead to treating others in ways they would prefer not to be treated - I can hear the complaints of viruses and (unwelcome) bacteria in my gut everyday, though I try to ignore their death curses.

It seems to me it is necessary for health. Now some nice people, I mean some continuous, always being gentle and kind and ‘not getting angry’ and so on do succeed in modern society. I think this is a complicated survival strategy - a bit like various forms of camouflage in other species. And on closer inspection is often not really nice in terms of effects. Just think how many people end up feeling guilty around the little saints out there. Or in debt. Or irrational by comparison. Or out of control. Or ‘too egotistical’. Or selfish. Or ‘not able to let go’. Or ‘not willing to sacrifice’. and so on depending on the system of thought either vibed at them or ‘kindly’ told to them.

I find nature to be nice most of the time. And once it fed all of us with minimal labor.

Nature is a great thing, but how can I call it nice? I see it as all conflicting and co-operating things at once, but the majority would destroy each other, at least at first, if the forces were to meet and become one. Separation is, in most ways, the basis of peace. Once many come together, it usually ends with war, unless they are overcome by the democratic spirit, but even in this case, war is not always bad. There are many things that I wish I could destroy, besides wishing to create things. I’m not purely ‘nice’, but I really value niceness, in some degree.

Like it feels nice to be in. Like sometimes it floats me downstream to where there is a bow and I can walk a few yards and then float down again. Like parts of it sing, for no fee. Like places can make me feel so good I miss them so much it almost breaks my heart. Those places just seem to give and give.

There’s a lot of symbiosis. Your cells are examples of separate organisms merging. Everything good, by whatever value judgments you have, has been built on this foundation of several organisms getting together and working together.

Nice is a nice default, unless your intuitive radar says ‘not with that guy coming towards me, no, Go Cold’.

Are you automatically trying to point out cases where what I say isn’t true, or are you consciously doing so?

If you tried to point out the cases where what I say is true, I think you would also find some of those things.
If all the starts and planets merged it would destroy all the life on them.
If organic beings all merged bodies suddenly, they’d die instead of becoming a super being.
There is space and distance between all objects, which produces peace and some degree of stability.
I was referring to this kind of thing when I say what I said.

I’m not trying to talk in absolutes.
Maybe I should make my sig into a preface. I think I’ll do that right now.

I am trying to show you where I am coming from. I don’t think I disagree with you, except for the one very general statement you made about Nature never being nice. From there I am not trying to demonstrate the falseness of what you say, but rather just to support what I said. To demonstrate the sanity potential of it.

Sure.

Sure. I am not saying all merging is good. Or even most merging is good. Just was giving some examples of cooperation.

I agree, some things are best separated (from me).

Ok thanks for clarifying. I wasn’t sure where you were coming from. I think there are allot of misunderstandings and straw mans on ILP.

Yes, indeed. You are quite right, Moreno. I would phrase it this way: The concept in question was “x is a good C”. But let’s say someone is sloppy enough to substitute the word ‘nice’ for the word ‘good’. To then bring up ‘too nice’ is a shift in the concept. Philosophers must be very careful about that, as their work is to analyze and clarify concepts.

Furthermore, “too …” indicates pessimism; it is a way of calling something “bad” - and that is what pessimists do. They are always a ‘little off’ to put it kindly. See the discussion about Optimism, Pessimism, and Realism in the booklet, LIVING THE GOOD LIFE, a link to which is found below. {It’s the chapter with the cartoons. :slight_smile: }

And, of course, I totally agree with you that ‘good’ and ‘nice’ ought not to be conflated.

Yes, the Dalai Lama can be boring – mentioning him was only an illustration; I could have used, perhaps, a better example to illustrate the point …the point was that I was defining the term “saint.” (I needed a word to cover someone who is a genius - a genius in the field of goodness, someone utterly devoted to the good.)

I describe a “genius” as someone who works on a problem - whether it’s to compose music, or to create a better can-opener - night and day …even in his sleep.

My project is to design a secular Ethics so that people won’t have to rely on, or turn to, a religion, for their ethics insight. I seek clarity in re values. Religions often contradict one another: they are divisive rather than unitive for the most part.

I thought we already had something like that.
At least in Canada the people I meet often have a non-religious value system.

What if, however, there is a connection between ‘sainthood’ and being boring. IOW what if conceptions of what it is to be very good are problematic and in this tip of the iceberg phenomenon - boring - we get a hint of deeper problems. A related issue is that goodness is often determined by acts. But I think we all have encountered people who either did nothing bad or even who really were rather ‘kind’ when one catalogued their behavior, but who it felt bad to be around. Goodness it seems to me includes influence beneath the level of acts or outside the realm of acts. Perhaps these bad vibes are in some way acts - at the level of neurons, say, to be crass - but for practical purposes there need not be any acts we can actually see and jot down.

I think the various notions of what good is often create problems at the level of being. People are ‘good’ but it has created problems at the level of being.

How will your system avoid the problem of contradicting religions and other secular moral systems? Won’t it simply be another voice disagreeing (and agreeing where it does)?