EU is not a USA ally

I was looking at the news of Bush in Rome. I can’t believe how much the guy and the USA is generally hated over there. The Italian left is totally against America, they would much prefer the North Korea dictator or even Hitler, I think Bush would be more comfortable in the center of Teheran or even in Bagdad. And this is supposed to be an ally?

But more in general the USA has no allies in Europe, every excuse is good to criticize everything of america, Spain is under communists who hate everything of america, same about most of Europe. When the dictators go to New York for the UN no one marches against them, there are few marches against anyone else in any place of the world. As soon as the US president or anything american goes to any other country, it is really as if the “Great Satan” has come, the world is completely brainwashed against the USA, they all think that all the problems of the world have been generated by the US.

The US made and makes alot of mistakes. But I am sure that the rest of the world is much more violent and much worse even though no one ever dares to criticize any one else. So start burning the American flags everyone in EU, you are always the good guys.

What crappy allies the US has!

It is part of the world folklore to march against the US. What fun would it be to march against anyone else ? Have you ever seen a march against North Korea or Iran in Paris or London ? No way, but if it is against the US there will always be millions, because it is a 50 year old tradition, they are always the “external” enemy, the scapegoat for everything.

But there are so many oddball contradictions. The countries brainwashed against the US are its strongest “theoretical” allies like South Korea, Japan, EU etc. Today the freindliest countries to the US are Vietnam, some Eastern European countries, probably alot of the population in Iran. I guess brainwashing has the opposite effect; those countries that “should” be brainwashed against the US, usually aren’t and those that should not be are.

Alot of the problems countries in the world have are internal problems; like in South America most are all internal, but it is convenient to have an external Enemy like the US. The US influence in the world is actually much less than many think. Most countries that follow capitalism have great freedom in deciding how to implement it, the US has very little influence on this, Japan style capitalism is very different from Germany and they are both very different from the US which is porbably the only real capitalist nation in the world.

In Iraq the US made a mistake starting the war, but the internal forces of that country simply keep on devastating it, and the blame is always on Bush and the US. The more suicides they perform the more blame the US gets from its “allies”, as if
it really isn’t the other way around; the US would have left long ago if they just shaped up and started acting civilized.

All Arab and Islam nations and people respect suicide bombers killing 50 people in the markets, but deeply hate Bush and the USA. I have never seen a march against all the insanity the Isalms do against themselves in Iraq…

The US has much less cultural influence than in the past decades, the brainwashing against the US in other western countries is so deep, that any proposal from the US is the mark of the beast 666.

Anyways, everything is so irrational and messed up …

The EU saves alot of money on defense since the US is defending the continent, the EU has alot more vacations, the US works much more, you can easily be fired in the US, in the US you must pay much more for health care. It seems to me that the US should have a grudge against the rest of the world and not vice versa.

we should withdraw all of our military out of europe and stop any food exports from the us to europe…

that would be great… it probably wouldn’t be 6 months before johnny jihad moved in and within 3 years they’d starve…


We’d be fine, we’ve got the French agricultural industry. Er, the British agricultural industry. Italy? Well, we wouldn’t run out of olive oil or wine for a while. Not sure we could survive on that. Then again, there was that Irish fella who survived for months only consuming Guinness.

haha, I think that is an exageration.

Of course, a communist party is going to press it’s anti-capitalism consensus, through propaganda, to it’s people, and that’s fine. I’d say the real reason any country has for hating America is it’s imperialistic geo-political agenda. It’s not only people living in the US that are against the war, it’s people all over the world. I say, the longer we’re at war, the shorter our list of allies will become. And that’s an unbiased statement.

It is the best possible empire history has ever had. Japan has never been so free and rich, no one tells them how to organize their system. The EU is a socialist state compared to the US. The US just suggests a liberal economy like their own but never forced and indeed could never force it on any EU state. That is because they are democratic thanks to the US imposing only this rule; and in fact in Arab countries the anti US forces win elections constantly so the US should really give up on the democratic thing.

Most of the world is indeed very different from the US. Very few western - rich countries fire their workers over night because the boss wants to. That is called freedom, fire and hire as you wish and it goes both ways. The US workers are much more under pressure than all the socialist state workers of the EU. The US workers have to increasingly pay for their health care, but the idea is you must work, you must deserve what you get, you must put in the effort. This idea is not present in any other country, and actually in most other countries the idea is you have to be of my political side (which is always the left - communist) or you have to be my freind to get anything. OF course this idea is somewhat present in the US also, but not at the extremes as it is in all other countries.

Most countries love to criticize the US just to ignore how much most of them truly SUCK.

Freedoms/Natural Rights given to US citizens are more than anyone from anywhere else would ask for. I don’t think anyone truly hates us for our freedoms, aside from countries who religiously oppose our strip clubs, and half-naked women parading the streets from dusk 'til dawn.
I do think that we have taken allies, and thrown them out at our leisure, burning alot of bridges.

I haven’t read much into it, but look at what we’re doing in this whole Poland/Russia missle defense situation.

“Tin soldiers and Nixon coming, we’re finally on our own,
this summer I hear the drumming, four dead in Ohio…
What if you knew her and find her dead on the ground,
how can you run when you know”

protest song 1970 (?) (CSN&Y - Ohio)

History repeats itself, humanity never learns from the past.

So the war was wrong, but who really lost it was the people of Iraq, they had the possibility to start over, the US got rid of their dictator, they preferred to kill each other off. Who cares if the oil was sold to the US, they had to sell it to someone anyway, selling it to any other country would have been the same. Lost opportunity…

Funny how I have come to the exact opposite conclusion:

History should be forbidden, it should not be taught anymore anywhere in the world, it only generates hate and further wars.

Better to completely forget all of the past events and start anew, a new generation that doesn’t have to keep on hating some other country for events that happened in the past. The past doesn’t even exist anymore, it is only in the minds and neurons of those who remember, but it is not even real anymore, it is a symbol, a denotation, a ghost.

The problem is Democracy is not perfect. If the majority of the people vote for something wrong, democracy makes a mistake.

This is what happened when the US invaded Iraq. Everyone voted for a wrong war, so a big big mistake happened and nobody even noticed it when it was being voted, they all voted for invading that crappy country.

Now after many deaths, the Iraq people can’t find anything better to do but kill each other off like animals. It was better for them to remain under Saddam’s brutal dictatorship, they are incapable of anything. And the US has now the reputation of being an evil nation of warmongers with the entire world, literaly the entire world viewing america as an evil entity. What a terrible failure!

So is democracy good or bad ? Who knows, people mess up everything all the time, people are really stupid and violent, we just must hope for the better and try to use as much reasoning and logic as possible. Religions just further mess up the world.

The Europeans are very anti-american and are also very hypocritical and love criticizing the US. When Bush came to Rome they had all kinds of anti american marches, as if the devil arrived. What total idiots, but it is also america’s fault. What a totally crappy world…

This is a flaw of perception. The world has billions of people each with their own absurd and idosyncratic minds. It is actually a miracle that there has been so much peace and wealth in so much of the world for such a long time considering how many things could go wrong. A glitch every now and then happens and Iraq was a glitch.

The peace and wealth have been imposed also thanks to the threat of US military intervention and US military might. Also those rich and peaceful areas are usually so called “allies” of the US and imitated the “evil” US model of consumerism and capitalism.

Anyways your idea of forgetting the past to avoid wars resembles the Iran guy’s idea that the WWII jew persecution never happened and is a myth. So any past can be denied as an invention, how can you prove something like the past ? So like nuke Iran and the day after just say oh, it never happened you all invented it…

This is why these kinds of debates are absurd. How much US military strength influences the world is anyone’s guess. All these political - religious - economic debates are in the end totally intractable, full of subjective opinions, gut feelings, wild guesses etc. There is no solid evidence on anything at all when dealing with these things. Was Saddam bad ? was it better if he remained ? who is to measure it ? according to what scale ? according to what values ? according to who’s WILD GUESS etc.

It was a wild guess to wage the war in Iraq, it is anyone’s guess how to get out, it is anyone’s guess what goal there is, totally intractable, insane and absurd problems.

Just want to throw this out:

As much as the Canadian Government in its current incarnation supports Bush the general consensus of the population is that the American’s foreign policy is complete hogwash. We do not agree in nearly any circumstance that their actions on a large scale benefit the areas (Vietnam, Gulf War, Iraq). I am not sure if this is a parallel of the EU or not, but it seems support here is only garnered by the Americans through economics, not politics.

The only way to garner peace is to offer options, not ultimatums.

There’s a perfectly good reason for this - they spend millions on the lobbyists to have their reputations white-washed before their visits. With the media and the politicos on-side no one knows to protest and they’re gone before the dust settles. Interesting side note, the number of lobbyists in DC have doubled under the Bush administration.

You claim that the rest of the world is brain washed?!? The working class of the USA is taught this while every obstacle is put in their way to prevent social mobility, meanwhile the upper crust makes millions on scandalously corrupt deals that fleece the taxpayers of literally millions of dollars - all without lifting a finger. The efforts of the majority working class (and I use working class not because I’m a fan of Marx, but because contrary to popular misconception most in the US who believe themselves to be middle class are actually just working class) serve as food for the rich to leach from.

Canada has a huge amount of space and land. If you go down in the midwest and west of the United States there is a lot of land with little population. If you go further down to Brazil and Argentina there is a lot of almost empty land.

But you have these insane violent and stupid people killing themselves over the “holy” land in Israel. For that crappy small piece of hell Palestinians and Jews kill each other off like totally insane idiots. The same for Iraq between the Sunni and Scitti etc. So these people kill themselves and others for some imaginary god, for some kind of cultural “heritage” for their “history”. When the Americas have so much land available, they could start all over again and throw away all that past, the religions and the so called “cultural identity” which in the end is only an excuse to kill other people.

With all the space avaiable they could create gated communities and install small encalves called NEW PALESTINE or NEW JERUSALEM. Wake up, down there in the middle east, start using your brains and not your animal instincts!

That is what would really make all the terrorists and religious fanatics in the middle east angry. While they fight, the palestinians and jews and Iraqis abandon those cursed lands to start a new life in the Americas.

Maybe the truth in all this confusion is that if people want to fight they will fight no matter where they are and for any reason at all. Maybe the real question is can people live without fighting ? Maybe people actually need to fight as an organizing principle. Even if the they lived in seperate communties thousands of miles apart, they would search out each other and fight over a football game (or soccer like in Europe). Some hooligans die for their soccer team.

Interesting. I’d be curious to hear just how Japan is brainwashed against the US.