Everything is relative

[Pinnacle_of_Reason]

A truth of a philosophy is revealed in its application. What does it mean to believe in devote faith that ‘everything is relative’? what are the implications for such belief? To say everything is relative means all things are tolerated, you don’t care about anything because ‘all is relative’, you are basically lazy, passionless, sitting on your bottom all day letting the day flow past you. It is the greatest lie. Even if everything is relative you still have to do something. Semi-intellectuals believe that all is relative, in that they lost their will to struggle for the truth which they previously harboured, because that is prejudice. but if everything is relative is ‘everything is relative’ relative?

modern culture is characteristed by tolerance, this disease whereby you see what foul but you tolerate it because you are too lazy to do something about it, to bend it to your will. because ‘everything is relative’ is itself not relative, but absolute. it is really saying ‘everthing ELSE is relative’ but it is not. but see how it cleverly leaves out the word ‘else’.

This is the eternal truth which I speak now comes not from me but from the Holy Spirit that is within me. May the Word of the Father always prevail, In the name of the Father and the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.

[my_real_name]

I was just reading a book on Hegel’s logic today. Apparently everything is both mediated and absolute. Perhaps that is why the relativists’ confusion?

[Ego]

@Pinnacle of Reason

A truth of a philosophy is revealed in its application. What does it mean to believe in devote faith that ‘everything is relative’? what are the implications for such belief? To say everything is relative means all things are tolerated, you don’t care about anything because ‘all is relative’, you are basically lazy, bla bla bla

Everything is relative doesn’t mean that all things are tolerated. It certainly doesn’t mean that you don’t care about anything, nor does it imply the rest of your rant… It means that certain things are relative to a certain context. Try again.

[my_real_name]

@Pinnacle of Reason

modern culture is characteristed by tolerance, this disease whereby you see what foul but you tolerate it because you are too lazy to do something about it, to bend it to your will. because ‘everything is relative’ is itself not relative, but absolute. it is really saying ‘everthing ELSE is relative’ but it is not. but see how it cleverly leaves out the word ‘else’.

On the contrary, PoR, tolerance, ultimately, can be seeing the beauty in something you hadn’t before…kind of like Diotima’s speech in Plato’s Symposium. It is growth of character, not frustration.

[Trevor_W]

truth is absolute. our reason(logic) determines the validity of any opinion. all philosophy is, is an opinion. so would you say our reason(logic) determines the validity of a philosophy?

[oreso]

@Pinnacle of Reason

A truth of a philosophy is revealed in its application. What does it mean to believe in devote faith that ‘everything is relative’? what are the implications for such belief? To say everything is relative means all things are tolerated, you don’t care about anything because ‘all is relative’, you are basically lazy, passionless, sitting on your bottom all day letting the day flow past you.

“Everything is relative” just means that no judgements are taken as universally applicable, or beyond judgement themselves. It doesnt mean you cant make judgements yourself, it just recognises that those judgements may not be shared by others.

It is the greatest lie. Even if everything is relative you still have to do something. Semi-intellectuals believe that all is relative, in that they lost their will to struggle for the truth which they previously harboured, because that is prejudice. but if everything is relative is ‘everything is relative’ relative?

Silly. Of course it is relative. Some people think that judgements can be absolute, such as yourself, and the relativist will grant you that you might be right. That probably wont stop them from being a relativist though.

modern culture is characteristed by tolerance, this disease whereby you see what foul but you tolerate it because you are too lazy to do something about it, to bend it to your will. because ‘everything is relative’ is itself not relative, but absolute. it is really saying ‘everthing ELSE is relative’ but it is not. but see how it cleverly leaves out the word ‘else’.

Tolerance isnt ignoring your morals, but prioritising the important ones over the more inconsequential ones. For example, a pro-lifer christian should probably console an abortion ‘victim’ as part of their central mandate of loving their neighbour rather than condeming them as part of their less consequential pro-life stance.

This is the eternal truth which I speak now comes not from me but from the Holy Spirit that is within me. May the Word of the Father always prevail, In the name of the Father and the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.

Of course, as a relativist, I’ll grant you that you may be right. I’m not convinced thought.

[Pinnacle_of_Reason]

sooo much heresy to stamp out!

mrn

I was just reading a book on Hegel’s logic today. Apparently everything is both mediated and absolute. Perhaps that is why the relativists’ confusion?

I don’t care what Hegel thinks. I think tolerance is rubbish, just as everyone else who refuse to tolerate my intolerance thinks of the same thing.

Ego

Everything is relative doesn’t mean that all things are tolerated.

I’ve already explained, if all is relative means, you have no grounds for action. but they have grounds because since all is relative you MUST tolerate them, while they do not tolerate you. Tolerance is such a great lie that even our Holy Father has fallen into its evil grasp.

if you care about things then those things are not relative.

certain things are relative to a certain context.

how so?

mrn

On the contrary, PoR, tolerance, ultimately, can be seeing the beauty in something you hadn’t before…kind of like Diotima’s speech in Plato’s Symposium. It is growth of character, not frustration.

tolerance is to not change what you see as ugly. if you are aware of beauty then it is not relative. one may think A is beautiful but another think B is beautiful. therefore A must convince B that A is beautiful and not be ambivalant and do nothing about it.

if I am intolerant, why cant you tolerate my intolerance? and become intolerant yourself? think about it!

also stop quoting philosophers, but quote them. just because you give me a bunch of names does your argument no good.

Trevor_W

truth is absolute. our reason(logic) determines the validity of any opinion. all philosophy is, is an opinion. so would you say our reason(logic) determines the validity of a philosophy?

You are absolutely right. another smart poster I have not meet before. yes, our reason determines everything. we are at the center of the universe which revolves around, in my case, me!

oreso

“Everything is relative” just means that no judgements are taken as universally applicable,

why can’t I universally apply what I myself think? just because ‘everything is relative’ does not mean I can’t make everything absolute. what makes that truth more of a truth of which I speak of? ‘everything is relative’ means all arguments are groundless, which I agree and which means that argument is also groundless.

just because others do not share my faith does not mean I am going to tolerate their ignorance and not impress my will upon them.

Silly. Of course it is relative. Some people think that judgements can be absolute, such as yourself, and the relativist will grant you that you might be right.

so what does ‘might be right’ mean, meaning you are not sure, not certain?

Tolerance isnt ignoring your morals, but prioritising the important ones over the more inconsequential ones.

tolerance is different from prioritising.

To tolerate is to turn a blind eye.

I don’t understand your example.

Since you are a relativist. what exactly is relative. you realise if you tell me what is relative that means they become absolute for you.

[Mad_Man_P]

OMG

I’m having so much fun reading these posts!!

Here are a few highlights…

PoR

if I am intolerant, why cant you tolerate my intolerance? and become intolerant yourself? think about it!

LOL… Why can’t i become intolerant by tolerating your intolerance, if you are intolerant?

why can’t I universally apply what I myself think? just because ‘everything is relative’ does not mean I can’t make everything absolute. what makes that truth more of a truth of which I speak of? ‘everything is relative’ means all arguments are groundless, which I agree and which means that argument is also groundless.

WOW… so many funny bits in this one… “why can’t I universally apply what I myself think?”… well… primarily because (and i’m only speculating here) you are not omnipotent…

“what makes that truth more of a truth of which I speak of?” errrr… WHAT???

“‘everything is relative’ means all arguments are groundless, which I agree and which means that argument is also groundless.”… I dare you to make sense of that one!

my real name

On the contrary, PoR, tolerance, ultimately, can be seeing the beauty in something you hadn’t before…kind of like Diotima’s speech in Plato’s Symposium. It is growth of character, not frustration.

I guess you didn’t see the beauty of the argument you were opposing… hmmm… lol

So far I’m siding with PoR… even though his language leads to funny statements at times… his points are good.

you cannot make the claim “everything is relative” and have that statement be anything other then an absolute… it is ultimatly self defeating…

Intolerance towards intolerance is also a funny paradox…

Absolutes are a nessesity for logic and reasoning… otherwise everything is subjective and objectivity is lost… arguing for your case becomes entirely irrational… as you have no objective basis for holding it… your best argument becomes “This is what i think… and i want you to agree”

Merry Xmas everyone!!!

I love this silly season… everyone’s so nice and they don’t know why!! WOOOT!!!

[igliashon]

Is everything relative, or are there absolutes?

I would presume that so long as there is choice, it doesn’t matter. Humans can accept whatever view they wish about the world, regardless of any external absolutes that might or might not exist. Granted, failure to except certain things can be fatal (we all need to eat, drink water, sleep, and avoid exposure to extreme temperatures), but that still can’t force anyone to accept them–hence the poor creatures who die trying to convert to Breatharianism.

Basically, it doesn’t matter what is absolutely true or not if enough people decide to ignore it. You can say otherwise if you wish, but you can’t make me believe it!javascript:emoticon(‘’)

As to the implications of relativism: there are none. Relativism does not imply a damn thing, because it’s all relative! Relativism can imply whatever I want it to, and there’s nothing anyone can do or say to change that. I can make up whatever values I want for myself, the world, and my relation to the world. I could, for instance, make up a God, and use His name to justify my condemnation/oppression/outright-slaughter of my opponents. Just like Abraham did. Does calling it absolute make it any less relative? Nope. This is why the Bible-thumpers don’t listen when I tell them that Jesus talks to me and tells me that the Bible is actually an instrument of Satan, and that his followers are corrupt and untrue to him.

For the record, I’m not a relativist or an absolutist. They both constitute axioms: you have to assume absolutism before you can prove absolutism, and ditto for relativism.

[Pinnacle_of_Reason]

Mad Man P

LOL… Why can’t i become intolerant by tolerating your intolerance, if you are intolerant?

This was suppose to show that the so called ‘tolerant people’ are intolerant themselves of intolerant views.

well… primarily because (and i’m only speculating here) you are not omnipotent…

correct, but then the question becomes the accumulation of power, the reach towards ominipotence.

I guess you didn’t see the beauty of the argument you were opposing… hmmm… lol

He was saying that others have good points, so it worth the while to look at things from their perspective. I find such argument ugly. if I look from their views, why can’t they look from mine? why do we all have to adopt Darrida’s view on absolute relativism?

So far I’m siding with PoR

and I shall side with you. just let me know who is giving you a hard time and I’ll unleash my intellectual fury upon the offender.

his points are good.

Like all artists, I love it when I meet a kindred spirit!

you cannot make the claim “everything is relative” and have that statement be anything other then an absolute… it is ultimatly self defeating…

true.

arguing for your case becomes entirely irrational…

like the tolerant being intolerant of intolerance. heheh, sweet irony. notice how you have to tolerate them but they never tolerate you… strange.

“This is what i think… and i want you to agree”

but that my friend, lies at the heart of all arguments.

Merry Christmas and God bless!

p.s I’ll add you to my prayers!

igliashon

regardless of any external absolutes that might or might not exist.

all absolutes are individual human absolutes. even if there are ‘external’ absolutes that does not mean we ought to follow them. philosophy build upon the so called external truth which philosophers says they have found.

you have to assume absolutism before you can prove absolutism

whatever you believe is true for you, whatever he believes is true for him. so all absolute described with precision is personal absolutes never universal meaning no external existence. philosophy does not exist in animals, but in humans, without humans there is no philosophy.

[igliashon]

whatever you believe is true for you, whatever he believes is true for him. so all absolute described with precision is personal absolutes never universal meaning no external existence. philosophy does not exist in animals, but in humans, without humans there is no philosophy.

What on earth are you talking about? You just affirmed relativism! I thought you were against relativism? That’s what the OP sure implied. Aren’t you a Christian? Don’t you consider God to be an external absolute?

An intolerant person has no argument for why intolerance should not be directed at him or her. That’s hypocritical, as hypocritical as being intolerant of intolerance. You are in no position to level charges of hypocrisy at us.

[pxc]

Everything is relative because nothing is the same.

[Pinnacle_of_Reason]

you do not understand.

I am both a relativist and an absolutist. this is quite complicated. I’ll try to explain tomorrow. I’ll write a short essay on it, just for you. it has to do with relativism, absolutism and thought.

An intolerant person has no argument for why intolerance should not be directed at him or her.

but by intolerating my intolerance, you are being intolerant yourself. therefore what you said about me applies to you equally!

[pxc]

@Pinnacle of Reason

you do not understand.

I am both a relativist and an absolutist. this is quite complicated. I’ll try to explain tomorrow. I’ll write a short essay on it, just for you. it has to do with relativism, absolutism and thought.

An intolerant person has no argument for why intolerance should not be directed at him or her.

but by intolerating my intolerance, you are being intolerant yourself. therefore what you said about me applies to you equally!

Yeah… but he said that too. Besides… you can be selectively tolerant. For example, when someone is doing something like lying to preserve a friend’s ego, you may give them some breathing room, but none at all when they kill someone. Besides, being tolerant does not mean not standing for anything.

[Pinnacle_of_Reason]

partial tolerance is no tolerance at all.

[pxc]

@Pinnacle of Reason

partial tolerance is no tolerance at all.

Why? Because PoR says so? That doesn’t make me any less right… we just had a communication error.

[Pinnacle_of_Reason]

cut the chase are you tolerant or intolerant.

[pxc]

@Pinnacle of Reason

cut the chase are you tolerant or intolerant.

It’s relative. But you wouldn’t understand, Mr. Absolutist.

[Pinnacle_of_Reason]

so you are tolerant one day, and intolerant the other. a shifty.

but what do you tolerate and what do you not tolerate? how you any principles, Mr Relative?

[Mad_Man_P]

@pxc

Everything is relative because nothing is the same.

But is it always the same that nothing is the same?

Or are somethings the same so that nothing is the same?