I see your point, Sanjay.
Anyway, did you want to carry on with the history of India, or should we move on to another topic?
Indian women are sexy. I need a nice sexy woman with a red dot on their foreheads. I am being sincere here. One of my favorite female ethnicities.
There are some more points which i think would be useful for you to comprehend the Indian mindset, culture and present status. After that, you may enquire what you want.
Next post would follow soon ( hopefully).
with love,
sanjay
[quote=“Tyrannus”]
Indian women are sexy.
As far as the shape of the body is concerned, Indian women are slightly on the meaty side and look more feminine than Western ones. Some prefer those types while some not. They are neither white nor black but Whetish in complextion in general, much like Mexicans.
That depends on the personal preference. And, more importantly, what you expect from sex.
But, let me tell you that odds are in the favor that an Indian woman would not let physical relations happen, unless and until, she would not be sure about being married, if that is your intent.
with love,
sanjay
Appreciate your reply Sanjay. I like all your points.
Still, I don’t see why guys want to mess up something good with something like marriage. I understand marriage, but yeah…not for me.
Speaking of India, I hear your national currency is expiriencing some significant devaluation. Know anything about that?
with love,
sanjay
Gib,
India fought four wars since independence.
First was in 1948 just after the independence with its twin brother Pakistan on and at Kashmir. Pakistan was comprehensively defeated and some of its territory came under Indian control. Pakistan had no option but to accept defeat and accept Kashmir as an integral part of the India. But, in a very surprise move, Prime Minister Nehru declared one-sided ceasefire and to move the issue to UN, though there was no need of any such move.
This was a terrible mistake and still hurting both the countries even after 67 years. The only reason behind this suicidal move was to just elevate himself at the world stage and present a larger than life type of image. That is inexcusable. But, did not learn any lesson from it and repeat the same mistake again in the dealing with the border dispute with China, which again translated as a war with the both countries.
There was a dispute with the border on two fronts with China even during the British regime; in north east and extreme north near Kashmir. China was very eager to settle the issue and proposed a very fair, reasonable and practical solution to keep the actual controlled area on the ground by both countries as final and accept the line of control as international border. This was the best solution under the circumstances, but, Nehru kept it pending deliberately.
The president of the China, Zhou En lei, invited Nehru to visit the China. Nehru went there and was very welcomed. Both leaders signed an agreement. Later Zhou visited India two times, writes Nehru many times to settle the issue. But, by that time, such perception was made within India that Nehru would compromise with China on this issue and this may hurt the congress party and particularly Nehru politically, both internally and internationally too. So, even knowing the harmful consequences, he put the future of the country at the stake for his image. The same mistake what he did in 47 during the first war with Pakistan on Kashmir.
Ultimately, China attacked India in 62 and India was proved no match for her enemy. Besides its inferior military capabilities, Nehru was taking the reservation of the China for granted and assuming that it was just a window dressing on the part of Chinese leadership because he was himself doing it all along here in India. But, he forgot that being a non democratic country, his counterpart had no obligation to do so. He realized the gravity of the matter when China started physical operations on the ground. China captured some of its territory in North- East border. Then, after some days, Zhou declared unilaterally ceasefire after capturing that area, which he proposed earlier, and then Chinese troops drew back 20 kilometers from that proposed line and stayed there. All this created a buffer zone of around 200 kms between two countries at north-east borders all along 2000 km border.
China gained precisely that area, which it wanted. Even being an Indian, seeing objectively, I strongly feel that the Chinese offer was fair and warranted and should be accepted by the Nehru, in the first place at the stage of the talks itself. His mistake influenced the future course of the demography and India-China relations never become the same. This also pushed China near to Pakistan. The issue is still disputable and came into light very recently.
The defeat in the war broke Nehru completely as his ambition of becoming would leader came to an end. This affected his health too and he died in 64.
Next post follows.
Gib, I hope that I am not boring you. I am doing this in order to get you to comprehend the underlying realities of the India.
With love,
sanjay
I was unaware that China and India had a recent military encounter, Sanjay.
Are you talking about Tibet and the surrounding area or something else entirely?
No, I am not talking about Tibet.
I was reffring to the incident, which occured about some days back, when Chinese Troops came some kms inside that buffer zone at north-east border and camped there. This raised eyebrows from the Indian side and Indian army showed concern about it by stepping up its activity alongside. The matter was raised at the diplomatic level too with the Chinese and after some days, the Chinese troops vacated the buffer zone and moved back.
with love,
sanjay
Probably because we in the West only take an interest in world affairs and history insofar as it affects us.
Not boring at all, Sanjay. I’ll let you post your next installment, with a reminder of the original question that started this branch: how did British occupation affect Indian perspectives on the West?
Gib,
I am hoping some spare time tomorrow.
with love,
sanjay
Gib,
After the death of broken Nehru, a political war broke out within the congress for his successor and Shastri emerged as a consensus candidate and became the next prime minister.
He was just opposite of Nehru. He came from very poor family and very humble, sincere, hard working and honest. He even denied living in the same grand house where Nehru lived and preferred a small house for him. India was not in the good shape then as there was much chopping and churning going around. Furthermore, India just came out defeated from the war so Pakistan saw it as a golden opportunity to strike a deciding blow. It stepped up the incidents on the border and ultimately full-fledged war broke out in 65.
Pakistan concentrated on the border along Kashmir anticipating that the Muslims there came in the support of Pakistan’s army but that did not happen. Pakistan tasted some initial success In Kashmir but India soon opened other fronts and Pakistan had to counter that and in order to do that, it had to shift some of its focus from Kashmir and India regained most of its lost ground there.
The war did not last long and soon converted into ceasefire because of international pressure, especially from USSR. This war virtually ended into a stalemate as none emerged as a clear winner, though India had a slight advantage on the ground. Pakistan consumed around 70% of its arsenal while, due to bigger size, India lost only 30%.
Nevertheless, the top political brass of both countries came to the table under the mediation of USSR in Tashkand (now in Usbakistan). The peace deal was signed there but Shastri never became able to come back to his home country as he died of the heart attack the same night and only his dead body reached here.
Once again, the clouds of political uncertainty started draping on the horizon. But, the daughter of Nehru, Indria Gandhi ( not to be confused with the famous Gandhi), came into the limelight. She defeated all her veteran political rivals in the race and literally forced herself on the chair.
It was the beginning of a new era in Indian politics in many ways. She was different from Nehru on many accounts and in the league of Margret Tether of UK or Golda Mayer of Israel. She was very aggressive, rude, ruthless, dominant, risk taking and never shied of taking bold and unusual decisions throughout her political carrier, though some paid off while some did not. She shifted the Indian economy from right to leftist type of model.
A lot was happening around in India those days. The same was in the case of Pakistan too, especially in the eastern part. Perhaps you were not aware of the fact that during the Indo-Pak partition, Pakistan existed into two different parts ( Eastern and Western), which were separated apart demographically by thousands of miles. Actually, the Western part ruled over the Eastern counterpart from the day one.
Western Pakistanis were dominant in all fields like politics, bureaucracy and military too. The Eastern Pakis were treated like a second class citizen even on their homeland. Some years later, elections were held in Eastern part and a pro-east party won but Western establishment did not allow them to form a government. All this lead to severe agitation throughout the Eastern part but military used all its force to suppress the locals. Military put local leaders in the jail, killed demonstrators and raped women almost at will. All this lead to the migration of locals to its neighbor, India. Migration happened at a very large scale as almost 10 million people shifted sides.
That severally affected the Indian economy as it had to take care of the migrants and India had to face the inflation and the shortage of eatables for the first time. Furthermore, it could change the balance of ethnicity too forever. So, Indira warned Pak leadership about this. She also raised this issue almost all international forums like UN and with US and USSR too but nothing happened.
Unable to take it anymore, Indira decided to use the last alternative; war. But, she was not in the right position as both US and China were openly in the favor of Pakistan. So, she played her cards smartly and sealed such a pact with USSR, according to which the attack on India was supposed to be an attack on USSR.
Seeing the war inevitable, both armies started preparations and committing a blunder, Pakistan made the first move. This gave Indira a much awaited chance to launch a massive counter attack on both Eastern and Western Pakistan. The war lasted only for 13 days. The Pak army in the east surrendered and almost 90,000 Pak soldiers became prison of wars. Pakistan was defeated on the Western front too. The Eastern part declared itself independent and Bangladesh came into existence as a new country.
Later ceasefire happened, especially with efforts of US. But, this war gave a never healing wound to Pakistan. This was the time when Pak leadership decided to became a nuclear power at any cost in order to avoid any further aggression from the India.
But, a very significant event happened along with this war. It was the time of cold war between US and USSR. US was the strong ally of the Pakistan but very smartly, Indira eliminated any direct involvement of US between the Indo-Pak war by signing a treaty with USSR.
US president Nixon tried his best to convince China by sending his foreign affair minister Kiesinger to attack India but China did not fell in the trap. US minister to UN, George W. Bush tabled a resolution for calling a ceasefire in the council, but USSR vetoed it. After that US asked Jordan and Iran to send their air forces to support Pakistan but even that did not work either.
As a last resort, US decided to sent its Task Force 74 including a aircraft carrier USS Enterprise to threaten India. This was really a big deal at that time. But, getting the news, USSR dispatched two groups of cruisers and destroyers and a submarine armed with nuclear missiles. They trailed US Task Force 74 into the Indian. The Soviets also had a nuclear submarine to negate the threat posed by USS Enterprise task force in the Indian Ocean.
Both US and USSR’s forces remained there in the Indian ocean facing each other almost a month. As far as i know, this was a rare occasion as it neither happened before that nor after. And, perhaps this was one of the scariest moments in the history after the WW-2.
Though, winning of India and the defeat of Pakistan, and US’s inability to help its allies in the difficult situation was seen as moral defeat of US and its foreign policy.
Gib, i would address your enquiry of the effects of the British rule on India in the next post. Or, if you had anything else related in the mind!
with love,
sanjay
Nothing else at the moment, but you have provided a wealth of information and I’m sure that, once you touch on my question of how the British affected the Indian perception of the West, we can look through your thorough and well-written history of India and find numerous questions to ask.
Thanks Sanjay.
Gib,
As far as the change of Indian perception about the west due to the British is concerned, the westerners were seen as different or somewhat aliens when they came here in bulk in 16th centuries. Though, the coming of foreigners was not a new phenomenon even before that but most of those were Asians, not westerners. The coming of westerners became possible only when European countries gain significant skills in sea travelling and searched for new routes and territories across the globe.
But, when the East India Company established its foothold here and started occupying states, that perception changed to some extent. The elite class fell for them. By Elite i am referring to those who are either wealthy or influential in the society, not the kings.
As the British rule further strengthened, the most of the educated and intellectual class also became their fans. People used to feel proud in dressing and behaving like Englishmen. That sense is still here even after 67 years of the independence.
Honestly speaking, an average Indian still considers himself inferior than a westerner. Even now, no matter how intelligent or knowledgeable one may be, he would be seen a layman if he is not well versed in the English language. Everything else is secondary. Though, the advent of the computer is also a main reason for this.
But, it is changing with the time, especially in last 20 years or so when Indian IT and BPO companies became major player in the business world wide.
When the British started ruling India, they felt a need of a class who can mediate between them and the masses. For this, they created an educated class and gave them some leverage like allowing them to sit and dine with them (Bitish) while general public are allowed to do all such things. Like other colonized countries, India also had a lot of public places like gardens and restaurants having a signboard – Dogs and Indians are not allowed here.
But, it would be unfair to the British if I do not mention their honesty, especially in judiciary. English Judges and to some extent administrators also, were seen highly fair and honest in their approach than Indians.
By the way, the British rule made some permanent impact here. I want to mention two things in particular; dressing habit and eating. Trousers and shirt is almost a national dress for males now, though females did not affected even slightly by their dressing sense and they are the same as were in the past. In eating habits, The British introduced Potato and Tea here too. And, both of those are in each and every Indian kitchen. Having said that, the western cooking style and cuisine did not found many takers here. Even now, The Macdonald’s and KFC are finding very difficult to make profits here. The only exceptions those survived are soft drink majors; Coke and Pepsi. Blame it to TV.
Gib, the fact of the matter is that nothing changed much even after the British left India. The undercurrent is still the same. Barring 10 years, directly or indirectly, India is still being ruled by a single family throughout those 67 years and counting. Perhaps upcoming election next year would change the course.
An average Indian mindset always wants a leader to show the way. And, there are historical and valid reasons for that phenomenon. And, India cannot be understood properly without understanding this issue.
with love,
sanjay
Which means that if he isn’t educated in the English language at an early age, he stands very little chance of gaining prestige, correct?
That’s true. I never paid attention to that until now.
Or the caffeine.
Thanks Sanjay, that’s a deep and important point. I don’t think enough Westerners realize this.
If you do not have any particular issue in your mind, then i would like to address this one.
with love,
sanjay
Such things are generally more easily recognized from outside than inside.
And that one was pretty damn obvious to me long ago.
Yes, please do.
That the Indian mindset wants a leader to show the way was obvious to you long ago?
Whereas by contrast, people in Pakistan know everything about Canadian politics. I mean, why wouldn’t they?
What are you getting at?