Hi i’m just stopping by.
Does anyone have a can of blind faith i could borrow?
Actually, my ‘believing’ friend, I do not ‘believe’ in evolution, nor anything else. I cannot, therefore, be a ‘fundy’.
The little cut and paste jobs that you offer from your “Little Book of ‘Witty’ Xtian Rejoinders” because you have nothing originally thoughtful to add on the particular topic is, in actuality, quite boring and lessens your own ‘credibility’.
Enjoy your ‘beliefs’.
that stuff seems to irritate my skin…
Shamgar, can you help me? i need something which is a complete guess but which requires 100% faith…
I should start my own thread.
Religion: Guess
Sounds like a fundy (a zealot) since you believe in “nothing” (Hey, even an absolutist to boot). . .but if you believe in “nothing”. .that means you actually believe in “something” and that “something” is “nothing”. . .yeah “logical” people are so “rational and coherent”. . .
Ironic since even the “logical” people say not to have blind faith in science. . .or blind faith in the scientists. . .obviously the lemmings missed that lesson…
It’s not often that I get to whip out some Gould, but this article should unveil the creationist behind the curtain:
If you haven’t read the article before, I strongly recommend it.
Yes, it is a "theory in layman’s terms: guess, speculation, hunch, etc. Yes, it is a fact that it is a guess, speculation, hunch, etc since no human has been “evolved” in laboratory.
I had a conversation with a Geneticist. That is a scientist for you none science majors. He had to agree with me about evolution only being a hypothesis. I guess when two people who have science degrees have a chat about science they can reach a rational conclusion. Oh did I mention this Geneticist was an atheist? See scientists know you need that human as the end product. . .no human end product. . no theory. . . :-"
sigh You didn’t read the article. If you did, you didn’t understand it. But I didn’t post it for you. I posted it for the others on the forum who might get enjoyment out of it, since they might actually read it.
sigh How did I get the quote? Oh, so if I “understood it” I would be “converted”? And if I failed to “understand it” I would remain a “heretic”? Sounds like a false dilemma to me. . .Maybe you should send it to the atheist Geneticist who agreed with the “heretic”. . . oh yeah that would upset your bandwagon. . .
SECTION 5 – TECHNIQUES THAT PLAY ON HUMAN BEHAVIORAL TENDENCIES
BANDWAGON
Most people feel comfortable when what they do is also done by many other people. Like kids jumping on a circus bandwagon, people can be swept away by the enthusiasm of a crowd.
I remember a visit I paid to New Orleans. When it came time to have dinner I walked down a street in the famous French Quarter of the city. I looked into one restaurant and saw that there were uniformed waiters with white linen towels draped over their arms. I could see comfortable chairs, beautifully decorated tables, a fine bar and colorful potted plants. There was only one thing missing – customers! As I glanced further on down the street, I saw a long line of customers outside another restaurant. Where do you think I ate dinner that night? You guessed it! I took my place in the line and felt quite comfortable doing it.
Reportedly, a British journalist fluent in German attended a Nazi rally and found himself giving Adolf Hitler a salute with his outstretched right arm as everyone else was doing.
The journalist was shocked by his own behavior for he was certainly no supporter of the Fuhrer.
Supporters of a Democrat presidential candidate might say, “Everyone is going Democrat this year.” The same claim might be made by a supporter of the Republicans.
Henry T. Conserva, “Propaganda Techniques” (1st Books Library: 2003)
i enjoyed the article. it hit the nail on the head.
Hey the “silversmiths” for the god “evolution” have started a chant. . .
Acts 19: 23 And about that time there was no little a stir about the Way. 24 For a certain silversmith named Demetrius was making silver temples of Artemis, providing not a little trade for the craftsmen. 25 And assembling the workmen about such things, he said, Men, you know that from this trade is our wealth. 26 And you see and hear that, not only at Ephesus, but almost all Asia, this Paul having persuaded, he has perverted a huge crowd, saying that those which are made with hands are no gods. 27 And not only is this dangerous to us, our share coming into dispute, but also the temple of the great goddess Artemis will be counted for nothing, and her magnificence is also about to be destroyed, whom all Asia and the world worships. 28 And hearing, and becoming full of anger, they cried out, saying, Great is Artemis of the Ephesians. 29 And all the city was filled with confusion. And they rushed with one accord to the theater, keeping a firm grip on Gaius and Aristarchus, Macedonians, traveling companions of Paul. 30 And Paul intending to go in to the mob, the disciples did not allow him. 31 And some of the chief men of Asia, being his friends, sent to him, begging him not to give himself into the theater. 32 Then indeed others cried out, some other things; for the assembly was confused, and most of them did not know why they had come together. 33 And they dragged Alexander forward out of the crowd, the Jews thrusting him forward. And waving his hand Alexander desired to defend himself to the mob. 34 But when they knew that he was a Jew, all with one voice cried out for two hours’ time , Great is Artemis of the Ephesians! 35 And quieting the crowd, the town clerk said, Men, Ephesians! What one of you does not know that the city of the Ephesians is a worshiper of the great goddess Artemis, and of That Fallen from the Sky? 36 Since these things cannot be spoken against, you ought to be quiet and to do nothing rashly. 37 For you have brought these men, who are neither robbers of churches nor blasphemers of your goddess. 38 Therefore if Demetrius and those craftsmen with him truly have a matter against anyone, the court days are kept , and there are proconsuls. Let them plead against one another. 39 But if you ask anything concerning other matters, it shall be determined in a lawful assembly. 40 For we are in danger to be accused of revolt concerning today; there being no cause by which we may give an account of this crowding together. 41 And saying these things, he dismissed the assembly.
I used to be a fundamentalist Christian and young earth creationist. I know what it’s like to believe what you do, Shamgar.
Shamgar
You like the Gospels right? And the parables? Here’s one illustrating my criticism of your argument.
John is charged with murdering his girlfriend Abby. There are reams of damning evidence against John – DNA placing him at the scene of the crime, fingerprints on the murder weapon, shirt stained with the victim’s blood on his person when he was arrested, etc. After the prosecution summarizes all the evidence in his closing arguments, it seems there can be no reasonable doubt that John committed the crime.
But John’s defense attorney has a plan. His closing argument:
As he ends his speech, observers of the court laugh and heckle his sophistry, and John is convicted.
Ah actually you have no idea.You only think you were a Christian. You never were a Christian. Now you only follow what people have programmed into your “open mind.” Which is why you can’t face the reality that you have tied your wagon to a lie. Sad, you thought you were “enlightened” by the “omniscient” science.
1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they were of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out so that it might be revealed that they were not all of us.
obey god or go to hell.
for he is omnicient.
Actually, If shamgar does believe in what he says, then he doesn’t
actually believe in science. I too have fought creationist elsewhere and
the bottom line for them is how they don’t believe in science.
For if you don’t believe in evolution, then you don’t believe
in the sciences which helps prove evolution which includes biology,
cosmology, paleontology, physics and chemistry among others.
If you don’t believe in science, then you must find a shaman or a witch
doctor for your medical needs or perhaps get a exorcist for what ails you.
And clearly you can’t use modern technology for that uses… Science which
you don’t believe in. So for anyone to use a computer and claim not
to believe in science is a fool and a hypocrite. It is common for a someone like
shamgar to deride science and then turn around and get the benefits from the
same science they proclaim they don’t believe in. I feel somewhat sorry for these people.
Kropotkin
i think that calling him a hypocrite is a little excessive.
One of my first posts was called : Intelligent design, evolution and brainwashing in schools
I believe that what you say is true. If you believe in science you don’t believe in god.
I made an argument to the effect of pointing out that this was unfair to the religious students because they had no reprieve within the school system from the damning effects of science on religion.
I argued that it broke the establishment of religion clause. And i still think it does.
That aside, Shamgar has no reason to seek us out. My guess is that he simply harbors hate for academics.
He completely ignores what is way because he can’t think up any response. He also probably has me on his enemy list by now.
This is the vent that he screams at to make himself feel better. If the vent yells back he will leave the room.
But out of stubbornness he always comes back.
“Fanaticism consists in redoubling your effort when you have forgotten your aim”- George Santayana
I stand by my words. an hyprocite is one who says one thing and does another.
And clearly Shamgar does that. He decries the evil of science while using
an instrument of science… computer, on the Internet which is based on science,
in his house which has a TV and a microwave and a telephone all of which
are based on science. He goes to an doctor when he is sick and takes medicine
both of which is using science. Take away science from anyone in North America
and they are living in a wooden house out in the middle of nowhere, living off the land
without electricity and any modern technology we take for granted. One of my fondest
wishes would be to argue evolution and creationism with someone who argued straight up.
Which is to say, they argued honestly. Creationist tend to be most dishonest
people I have ever met bar none.
Kropotkin
Ah the false dilemma, again. . . .Shamgar has a science degree. . . . Shamgar certainly believes in science. . . Shamgar knows science is a tool. . .a tool is only “evil” or “good” by the individual wielding the tool. . . “evolution” is nothing but a political ideology being fought in the laboratory. . much like the defense of the cigarette industry. . .the science that cigarettes were bad for you was suppressed all for the sake of money. . .science bought and paid for. . .
The “logical” person who cannot discern my actual beliefs feels sorry for me. . . obviously that explains why his judgment of many things in this world are so skewed. . .
Shamgar:
Ah the false dilemma, again. . . .Shamgar has a science degree. . . . Shamgar certainly believes in science. . . Shamgar knows science is a tool. . .a tool is only “evil” or “good” by the individual wielding the tool. . . “evolution” is nothing but a political ideology being fought in the laboratory. . much like the defense of the cigarette industry. . .the science that cigarettes were bad for you was suppressed all for the sake of money. . .science bought and paid for. . .
K: Evolution has as much a scientific basis as the theory of gravity (indeed the argument may be made that evolution has more a
solid foundation then gravity as a theory) Evolution is as scientifically sound as any theory in science, so to doubt evolution is
to doubt science. I like the way creationist are always scientist and have a science degree and yet still doubt evolution.
I suppose its to lend credence to their theories if they are scientist even if the degree is from wal-mart or from their local
evangelist show. And what is with the third person, Shamgar has a science degree… from a psychological standpoint, talking about
yourself in the third person suggest serious issues.
If you want to upset the evolution argument then you must argue with the substantial and I mean the incredible amount of evidence
that is out there proving, yep proving that evolution exist and has been and is and will be a factor in the world for a long time to come.
So start with the large volume of transitional fossils that exist to carbon dating to the very fact you are different then your parents
each stands as a piece of evidence (among many pieces of evidence) that evolution exists. The burden of proof lies in your corner
to disprove something which has stood the test of time over 150 years.
Kropotkin