Black Horse;
Author of a novel, has his own concepts, principles, ideas and beliefs, which expressed by his way of thinking and he determined the destiny of each one of his characters depending on his own point of view and his education.
So, we can’t compare God to an Author, because this author is a humanbeing which has limited mind compared to God.
Also god controls time, no one knows when is the judgement day will be, and he gave us the choice to follow GOOD or BAD paths, and he guided us to what is true or false by his messangers and prophets whome learnt the mankind gradually to reach the civilized way in life, and every learner must have references, and the reference of messangers and prophets is God himself by inspiration via the honst and holy spirit (The Angel “Jibril” ) peace be upon him.
And ofcorse this reference can’t be fault because it is from God, but satan encourages mankind to modify in God’s rules and unfortunately some of the mankind or most of them followed satan, and PICKED OUT the wrong path.which they will be punished for it.
When I talk about GOOD and BAD paths I talk about just titles about several types of GOODNESS & BADNESS, so when a human being coose to follow one of them he also will choose one of the branches contained of them, I’ll give an example:
For goodness:
1- Help people.
2- Defend people’ rights.
3- Be kind.
4- Construct the universe and keep it from destruction, and etc…
For Badness:
1- Follow desires.
2- Hurt people.
3- Help to destroy GOOD symbols.
4- Distribute wrong and false beliefs between people to take them away form God’s guidance, and etc…
Briefly :
GOODNESS represented by following God’s instruction, and BADNESS represented by following un accounted desires (Which Satan encourage mankind to follow)
About God:
Any object from a manufacture view, is composed of material which human being collect and make modifications on it and treat it, then connect these objects together to creat a certain element “ROBOT as an example” and human being will control it; to help him in his life requirements.
I’ll take the human being him self as an example:
Human being in such a classification, composed of BODY and SOUL:
Body:
It is composed of Complicated orgasms which have significant functions, and which have undetermined fatigue life (Doctors can’t know when will be a failure in certain orgasm for a Baby who is new born) and this orgasm can’t be manufactured with the same accurate characteristics of its nature, and by the way, when doctor replaces something in human body it needs to be replaced again after a while because it has a certain fatigue life due to its material composition and this synthetic orgasm won’t be in the same quality of the original one. ex. synthitic arm.
Soul:
Very huge mystery which no one can give an explanation for it.
So could u creat huamn body, or soul???!( and don’t say artificial intelegence because it is controlled by humn being and programmed, which (robot) have no choice and don’t have soul also can’t be made of water and mud “like human being made of”)
Now we can figur out that who creates human being’s body,and soul is somthing smarter and powered more than the human being, and huamn being has the mastery of the earth and can control other creatures so mankinds are masters on the earth relative to other creatures on the earth too , obviously who created human being and other creatures is the infinite power “GOD”.
And from his mercy upon us, he gave us the choice as I said before,while when u make a robot u don’t give him the choice, u program it.
So, Why did God created us, while he don’t need us in anything???
The answer, because he want us to worship him and examine us, will we follow his instructions or will we follow the other PATH. God don’t play a game, he gave us many gifts and didn’t ask for anything but, his worship ( will u never insults some one who gave u a present or a gift? ofcourse u will thank him. So the way to thank god is to worship him) And ofcourse no one can blame God, because it is God’s will, and no one has the courage to challange God, because he knows that he will lose everything, he will lose his (life) and he will lose the (life after death) because he will be in HELL, and thats what Satan wants to orient mankind to, because Satan is already will be in Hell, because he disobied God before.
So God do exists, and guided us and is guiding us, then we have the choice but in fate’s frame (the simplest example is: do u know HOW will u die???)
Trevor;
Posted Aug. 25, 2006 11:41 AM
A)Is it good to kill? no. Is it good to kill someone who is trying to kill you? yes.
B) When we say something is good or bad we can talk objectively about the pleasure or pain incurred or the success or failure experianced, because we can learn this from our experiance. If i put my hand in a flame, it burns my hand, causes pain. The pain is less desirable than pleasure or an experiance void of both pain and pleasure, so i say that pain is bad. Pleasure is a desirable experiance, more desirable than pain or an experiance void of pain and pleasure, so i can say that pleasure is good.
Success is the goal of any action, nobody strives for failure. I prefer to succesfully occomplish what i set out to do rather than fail, so, failure is bad and success is good.
I judge the succes/failure with regard to my initial goal. If i accomplish my goal, i am succesfull, if i don’t accomplish my goal, i fail. The awareness of pain and pleasure is an inherent capacity of most humans. There is no way to wrongly feel pain. When i judge the “morality” of an action, what do i use to substantiate my claim? when i develop my morality, i develop an ideal of what a perfect world would be like,for not only me, but everyone.
What grounds do i have for stating that my ideal is right and your ideal is wrong? We are all human, what makes one humans ideal superior to another humans ideal?
C)We can derive the idea of god by expanding human capacities to be unlimited. man is limited in his knowledge - presence - power, GOD is unlimited in his knowledge - presence - power.
aka the idea of god is not something mysterious, its the idea of a perfect being or a omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient being.
D)I can make a human quite easily. Its called sex without a condom. I fuck a chick, my sperm fertilizes her egg, an embryo develops and eventually is born and lives and dies.This goes for most every other animal on the planet.(some orginisms produce asexually)
really, take the god orgy somewhere else, if Descarte couldn’t get it right i’m not sure if anyone can. We don’t need proof of god, beliveing is enough.
I am born into a struggle that only ends in death. The fun part is the struggle and the rewards we get when we succeed.
E) God doesn’t control time. Time is the measurement of existances longevity. I am alive now, i have been alive for 22 years. The past is a memory of experiances which have occured. The future is an idea of what will come to be. Right now is where i become what i am. When i commit myself to a descision, i become the author of a story in which i feel the effects not only think of them, I am the painter who experiances the painting becoming something new and i can interact with the image, not just imagine it.
Every time i move from place to place, my consciousness paints the image of my reality, but its bristles are so fine and stroke so precise and quick i hardly notice the fabrication process.
We don’t need god to guide us, gods guidance is for the weak. Hence, he consideres you his sheep, and thinks you need a keeper. The real independent soul or man acts for his own reasons. The real “good” man is a man who does right for the sake of right and the avoidence of failure and pain.
Black-Horse
Posted Aug. 25, 2006 12:41 PM
Dear Trevor,
U can’t judge that u know what makes pain and pleasure only of ur own experiences but also by others experiences because the human being life is shorter than the time that u need to try every thing and know what is causing pain, and what is causing pleasure.
About success and failure:
How could u know that is ur goal (that u measure relativ to it) is constructive or destructive (good or bad) without predetermined knowledge which u have gained from considerable references (God’s instructions) and experiences.
Morality:
If it only depends on ur experience, how could u be sure that it will suits others and be better for them. Also how did u learn this mrality? and how could u know that it is right or wrong, without a reference?
Making Human!!!
I can’t belive that u’ve said that!!!
If u made what u mentioned, r u sure that both of u r not sterile? and if we assumed that u can create human being with this mean, so who created u ? ur father, and who created ur father? till we reach “Adam”, who created adam?
And who controls this human being death? u? who controls this human being food? u!!!
About time:
God controls time, because u don’t even know when is th judgement day. lets take another example: in ur dreams while u dream with somthing such as movie, which u consider it took about 5 minutes, scientists put measuring devices on a sleeping guys and made experiments which was the result that the dream take almost 3 seconds. so who is controlling time?
God’s Guidance:
ofcource we need it, he taught “Adam” and all of the prophets and messangers, and they learnt us, and guided us to the way of gaining knowledge and science, by improving human being way of thinking, so we need God’s guidance.
In this discussion we r circulating in a closed loop, which return us back to the starting point which is (GOD’S INSTRUCTIONS which is THE ONLY TRUsTED REFERENCE “the ideal”)
Trevor;
Posted Aug. 25, 2006 1:28 PM
Pain and Pleasure;
Other humans can give accounts of pain and pleasure that i will understand because i understand they’re language and i am of a like nature(conscious/aware, sentiant/sensations, rational/capable of reasoning).
Morality;
Through our experiance, reasoning, imagination, we have the ability to form an idea of what is an ideal outcome to any situation. If something causes me pain, it is bad(for the time being), if somehting causes me pleasure it is good(for the time being). As i age, i develop an idea of what is good and bad and when i try to apply this to peoples actions in general, i moralize. The point i was making was that each persons morality is a product of they’re development and the belifs they formed along the way .i.e no one morality is more legitimate than another. Also, the only way to become aware of the acceptance of any system of morality is through enforcing this system by means of a judicial system and police. look at the population of our prisons, people in prison disagreed with the implemented system of morality and we’re punished.
Making humans;
Like any animal we mate and make little animals. Who made the 1st human? the guy who wrote that book or darwin. but really, how could i, who am not a historian or evolutionary biologist, tell you that? I’ll be the 1st person to tell you i don’t know how humans became existant. There are alot of scientists who don’t know either. But you can’t prove that Adam existed any more than i can prove that we evolved from monkeys or single cell organisms.
About time;
I could kill myself and take complete controll of what you call judgement day. My dreams are not the same as my conscious experiance. I had dreams where i jumped from one world to another in an instant(because the laws of physics and sensation do not apply in dreams. If i fall off of a building in a dream, i feel no pain. If i crash a car, there are no reprecusions(exception being me waking up, which happens after every dream). Earth has a universal system of time. If i have an appointment at 10:00AM Eastern Time and i arrive at 10:05AM i am late.Don’t try to sound profound,it just complicates things. Say what you mean and back it up with a sound argument. Saying that we don’t have an accurate sense of time in dreams does nothing to substantiate your claim that god controls time. Time is the measurement of existances longevity. The earth spins on its axis every day. Every 365 or so days we orbit the Sun. We can break time down into min. sec. ect.
God’s Guidance;
I had the guidance of my parents, my family, my teachers, aquaintences ect. My ability to think is a result of my brain/sense organs and thier functions.
My senses aquire information about my environment. See light(and objects that reflect light), hear sound,smell fragrence, taste flavour, feel force/texture/temperature ect. My memory allows me to recall past experiances and recognize sensations that I have felt before. Can you , before ever experiancing the taste of wine, like it or dislike it? can you, when you hold a baseball
at arms length, reason a priori, that a the ball will fall to the ground rather than the sky? you know this because you we’re taught this, and you observed from experiance, that the theory holds true when we test it.
We are born with the capacity to learn and as we age we expand our knowledge base, from this knowledge base and the awareness of our current environment, we can reason and make descisions.
Anyone else think that some budding philosophers are way to concerned with GOD? and try too hard to attribute life ups and downs to GOD? and more or less, let GOD(or those uppity preachers and “prophets” blind them?[/u]