existentialism

“all the consequences of this”
Kile Jones argues that atheistic existentialism is more compelling than religious existentialism.

There are, of course, things that seemingly all of us are powerless regarding. We could not not have been born. That was beyond our control. We are all indoctrinated as children to view the world around us as others do. We are powerless to go through life without access to those things required for subsistence itself. We cannot not go through puberty. We must have access to money in the modern world. We are powerless against the Grim Reaper.

Then this part…

“I recognize that I put structure into my world…There is no ‘real’ world out there, given, intact, full of significance. Consciousness is constituted by random, virtually infinite barrages of experience; these experiences are indistinguishably ‘inner’ and ‘outer’…Structure is put into experience by culture and self, and may also be pulled out again…The experience of nothingness is an experience beyond the limits of reason…it is terrifying. It makes all attempts at speaking of purpose, goals, aims, meaning, importance, conformity, harmony, unity----it makes all such attempts seem doubtful and spurious.”

His solution? The Catholic Church.

This basically describes my own mental, emotional and psychological configuration. Going from both God and No God objectivism to the fractured and fragmented moral and spiritual nihilist that “I” am today. And of course, they are especially frightening because how exactly do you go about not being yourself from day to day to day? For those things that disturb you externally you might have options to steer clear of them. But not your very own thoughts and feelings.

Still, how are our own personal reactions to that not going to be profoundly embedded in both our individual circumstances and the manner in which I construe dasein here?

“all the consequences of this”
Kile Jones argues that atheistic existentialism is more compelling than religious existentialism.

On the other hand, it all comes down to the manner in which one construes this frame of mind in relationship to others. One can become an Uberman and concentrate solely on enhancing his or her own life. Or one can allow this enhancement to revolve in turn around a general disdain for those deemed to be sheep, slaves to conventional mediocrity…last men.

Thus, one rules over them not because one has the might but because one has might derived from being morally and politically superior to the sheep. Then those among us still today who insist that revolves around race or gender or ethnicity or sextual preferences. Then those among us who will take that all the way to the gas chambers.

Which, of course, is why I have often wondered how Nietzsche might have responded to my own frame of mind…the role that dasein and the Benjamin Button Syndrome play in shaping not only the what we believe but what actual options we have to act on those beliefs.

Again, however, from my own frame of mind, all of this depends on whether you emphasize the existential parameters of your life or attempt to intertwine that into one or another of these…

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_r … traditions
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_p … ideologies

…One True Paths.

Existentially, each of us as individuals acquire more or less power to live our lives to the fullest. Some of us live lives that are bursting at the seams with fulfilments and accomplishments. Fuck Kafka’s cockroach mentality. That “existential” bullshit. Instead, for those like me, powerlessness revolves more around the futility of acquiring an essential meaning and purpose, around feeling fractured and fragmented, around the grim reality of oblivion itself creeping closer and closer.

Better perhaps to be the cockroach then. Utterly oblivious to what only human beings can grasp about meaning and purpose, about living and dying.

Well, in a free will world anyway.

So, what in particular are you powerless to change in your own life? What boulders are you forced to grapple with endlessly day after day after day? The bullshit that makes your life other than what you want it to be. But bullshit you can do little or nothing about?

So, is this bullshit more or less circumstantial or more or less philosophical?

“all the consequences of this”
Kile Jones argues that atheistic existentialism is more compelling than religious existentialism.

And then there’s my own rendition of this…an essentially meaningless and purposeless existence. An existence in which you are ever and always fractured and fragmented when confronting the world around you morally and politically. And all ending in an equally meaningless and purposeless death…oblivion. On the other hand, in accepting that existential meaning and purpose will have to do, you are able to pursue any number of subjective paths in the interim and dive headfirst into any number of fulfilling and satisfying “distractions”: friendships, sex, love, a career, the arts, sports, food, drink, drugs and on and on and on.

Instead, to the extent you are able to live on your own terms, you “prolong…out of strength”.

On the contrary, the moral objectivists among us will insist that wisdom, first and foremost, involves grasping what to change and what to leave alone.

Not sure what that might be? Then, many will advise, take a leap of faith to God…

With God of course, both the ends and the means are covered. But only if your leap is to the right God. And only if you interpret His Word in the right way. For example, as Immanuel Cant reminds us, being a Christian is not enough, you must be a true Christian.

Right.

On the other hand, I argue that, as authors, our point of view is derived existentially from dasein…an ever-evolving subjective vantage point predicated on the particular world we are “thrown” into at birth, on our indoctrination as children and on our own unique accumulation of personal experiences. Nietzsche just muddies the waters all the more by yanking God out of it. And Kafka by reminding us of all the variables in our life that are beyond our fully understanding or controlling. In fact, I would imagine him having a far more comprehensive understanding of, among other things, the Benjamin Button Syndrome than the hapless objectivists here.

“all the consequences of this”
Kile Jones argues that atheistic existentialism is more compelling than religious existentialism.

Actually, I used to note that given a No God world, I thought human existence was “essentially meaningless and absurd”. Until one day someone asked me what I meant by absurd. Then it dawned on me that I only used it because I often came across it reading about existentialism. Now I’m more partial to “human existence is essentially meaningless and purposeless.”. Again, in a No God universe.

The strength of the absurd? In relationship to God? What exactly does that mean? Instead, I was always partial to Bob Dylan’s take on it:

God said to Abraham, “Kill me a son”
Abe said, “Man, you must be puttin’ me on”
God said, "No, "
Abe said, “What?”
God said, “You can do what you want Abe, but
the next time you see me comin’, you better run”
Abe said, “Where do you want this killin’ done?”
God said, “Out on Highway 61”’

Not much the faithful won’t do if they fear the wrath of God, right? Especially if God actually speaks to them. After all, it’s not like Abraham had access to IC’s YouTube videos.

Maybe this makes sense to you, but it’s far beyond what I construed absurdity to be. I was more in Sync with Camus, Meursault and Sisyphus. Your life has no essential meaning or purpose. But up and down you go. Instead, I always focused on all of the many existential distractions there are that life well worth living.

Thus…

Okay, up to I point, I get that. But the bottom line for the overwhelming preponderance of us is that in any number of ways we have little choice but to play "society’s game.

For example, when it comes time to pay the bills.

But I don’t see my own life in a Sisyphean sense: “There is but one serious philosophical problem, and that is suicide.”

Fuck that. From my frame of mind, that is reasonable only up in the intellectual clouds.

“all the consequences of this”
Kile Jones argues that atheistic existentialism is more compelling than religious existentialism.

Indeed, we have some here who have suggested this. But it’s one thing to point it out because some people will go down very dark roads once convinced there will be no Judgment Day. But mere mortals have other incentives not to go there. Even if they don’t believe in God. They may live lives that fulfill them. They may be surrounded by family and friends that provide them with lots and lots of day-to-day existential meaning in their lives. People they seek out the respect and the admiration of. People – children in particular – that depend on them.

And pointing out just how dire the human condition might be without God, doesn’t make this God any more demonstrable. Instead, some will suggest, you may well believe what you do only by and large because you do fear what might unfold without Him.

There are, after all, any number of secular humanist philosophies around that can sustain what is construed [by them] to be a moral foundation for human interactions. And, politically, a community can embrace democracy and the rule of law in order to accommodate conflicting value judgments.

Or, philosophically…

Three points…

1] It’s not necessary at all. I’m reasonably certain that millions go from day to day scarcely giving it a thought. And far, far fewer, philosophically.
2] it generally drives you to a dead end only when as a philosophy of life it becomes entangled in a life that, existentially, is about this close to being flushed down the toilet. Circumstantially, in other words.
3] it can “create an impetus for positive social change”, true. But let’s not lose sight of the fact that this change might not involve interactions which you, yourself, construe to be positive.

“all the consequences of this”
Kile Jones argues that atheistic existentialism is more compelling than religious existentialism.

Tragedy. Dread. Powerlessness. Absurdity.

Still, for the objectivists among us, it’s not the belief alone that must be taken seriously – that’s understood – but, of far greater importance, that there is but one way in which they can be taken seriously. And just as there are religious fanatics who insist on their own One True Path to God, so too there are existentialists insisting in turn that their narrative reflects the one truly authentic existentialism.

In this case, God or No God.

Existentialists who do make that leap of faith to God are able to subsume all of the trials and the tribulations, all of the pain and the suffering endured on this side of the grave in Salvation itself. Eternal Salvation. So, in however they construe tragedy, dread, powerlessness and absurdity as individuals, the true believers will someday be rid of them all.

Then this part…

Which, in regard to the mind-boggling conjectures proposed in grappling with the existence of existence itself, still involves considerable leaps of faith, mystery and paradox.

Indeed. And then, over and again, I come back to how utterly fundamental religion is here: God? No God?

If you need to believe 1] that objective morality does exist and 2] that immortality and salvation await those on the One True Path and 3] that this path just happens to be your path then, sure, insist that it’s all about Christianity. Or, on the contrary, one of the many, many others.

In a world bursting at the seams with all manner of “radical tragedy”, yes, it is comforting and consoling to believe that God has His reasons for bringing the tragedy about…and that ultimately, in the end, Paradise awaits you for all the rest of eternity.

Or in order to keep the grace full of graceful excuse for interjecting where perhaps not warranted, and it ties in to the Grace begotten which the religious existentialists notice as a gap into which it’s futile to inquire .

The singular apology does not at all times the veritable meaninglessness that objectivity may be tossed, as the reasonable assumptions fail otherwise to perpetuate the need to compensate to absolute meaninglessness of an atheistic nihilism.

So pantheism is by definition an absolute self containment of everything, but then a partial existential containment can only contain the part that is existentially contextual and situational.

Such seems reasonable enough, but such reasoning must be sustained as it comes up, regardless what side this issue is placed on, or if God in the sense of an all in containment of everything inside it’s self has as little meaning as it’s reversely held non pantheistic assumption.

For this reason did religious existentialists came up with the notion, that if god did not exist, He had to be created. Then the narratives stop to advance to extend to the description of how and what God could be represented to mean.

We have come a long way from perceiving God in the method of absolute rejoinder, by supposing an antiThethic Antiochobjective such as envisioned by an ‘evil genious’ with that concept retained to the present time as zither Anti-Christ, so the question we may ask ourselves is has the metaphysical inversion to regress toward more simple, all inclusive absolute generalizations, not undermined by the same directional uncertainty which previously intended to assure stability and the transcendence of a prior image of the Good.

Is that apparent oppositional force, and I am still trying to wrap my mind around Tab’s interjection as it may effect the vision Mary/optical aspect of it ( if I can find it) that opposite effect appears to have produced an axiomatic reflex of trying to re in force that weakening foundation by injecting near identically growing resemblences, seeming to reaffirm the conceptual idea of a pre arranged structural hierarchy within the plenum of all possible signals which have a kind of attraction to premordial signs with which they were originally been connected to, but have split or divided in the process of evolving higher grounded processes.

“all the consequences of this”
Kile Jones argues that atheistic existentialism is more compelling than religious existentialism.

And to accept them as legitimate only makes sense to me “for all practical purposes”. You find yourself in a situation where you are unable to embrace a meaning that gives a particularly dire experience any essential justification. No God, no ideological narrative, no philosophical basis by, from, through which to defend your behaviors. The mystery and the paradox are derived instead from the belief that human existence has no ontological, deontological or teleological foundation. It’s all just part of the proverbial “brute facticity” embedded in a “shit happens” universe where very different people have very different reactions to the very same thing.

That some continue to ask this question in all seriousness truly perplexes me. A God, the God, from my frame of mind, is the only factor when it comes to dealing with the consequences of human behaviors that come into conflict morally, politically, deontologically and spiritually.

With God and morality, the only question is this: does He exist? Is He omniscient and omnipotent? Is He loving, just and merciful? Does He have an explanation for this:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_earthquakes
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_l … _eruptions
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t … l_cyclones
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_tsunamis
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_landslides
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fires
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_epidemics
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deadliest_floods
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_t … ore_deaths
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lists_of_diseases
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_extinction_events

God’s existence makes all the difference in the world. In fact, Immanuel Cant and others here noted any number of reasons why it does. Instead, with them [from me] it’s “why your God?” and “where’s actual proof He exists?” and “how could you have become a Christian other than given the manner in which we all come to accumulate moral and political and religious prejudices existentially as the embodiment of dasein.” Then theodicy of course.

No God, no objective morality. No God, no immortality or salvation. Things however clearly change all the time socially, politically and economically. In France, in virtually every nation on Earth. Especially this day and age. It’s just that by and large the changes still revolve around democracy and the rule of law. What if capitalism wedded to the welfare state is the best of all possible worlds?

Instead, what continues to make the world unstable are the fiercely fanatically objectivists…God or No God. The moral, political, philosophical and/or spiritual authoritarians. The my way or the highway dogmatists.

Them and the forces around the globe that seem intent on sustaining the amoral “show me the money” nihilists intent further on dismantling what’s left of the democracy and rule of law around the globe. Some intent more on installing ever more “populist” and autocratic regimes. Fascists perhaps?

If and when America ever brings to power those who can emulate the governments of Vladimir Putin and Xi Jinping…?

Talk about dominoes toppling over.

It probably won’t be Trump. We lucked out with him the first time some suggest because he weas simply too incompetent a fascist?

“all the consequences of this”
Kile Jones argues that atheistic existentialism is more compelling than religious existentialism.

Me too. Big time. If you are genuinely, sincerely, introspectively able to intertwine existentialism and a leap of faith to God, there is a part of you – however turbulently and problematically it might be experienced – that is able to believe in objective morality derived from Commandments and Scripture on this side of the grave and immortality and salvation awaiting you on the other side of it. You are able to believe this and that is really all that is necessary to make it true…for you.

That is how I think about God here in turn. Just as those like IC point out, No God and there can be no objective morality. Just particular communities of mere mortals embracing one or another of the many secular moral philosophies we can pick from:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_p … ideologies
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_s … philosophy

Sure, it’s always possible the community you embrace really does reflect the optimal, most rational assessment of birth, school, work and death. Of the human condition itself embedded “somehow” in the existence of existence itself.

Yep, seems entirely reasonable to me.

Simone’s Existentialist Ethics
Anja Steinbauer on Simone de Beauvoir’s Ethics of Ambiguity.

Well, when the work one does revolves almost entirely around writing and the words one uses in one’s work pertain almost entirely to philosophy, the first thing that pops into my head is connecting the dots between words and worlds.

There’s how she did this in the Ethics of Ambiguity and how she translated these intellectual contraptions into the interactions of various characters in the novel The Blood of Others. Morality theoretically and morality as a member of the French Resistance doing battle against Hitler’s Nazis.

And, more to the point, it rejects a “for all practical purposes” moral narrative and political agenda said to be applicable to all rational men and women. It’s not just about concepts here but actual lived lives. There is no one size fits all moral philosophy that [to the best of my knowledge] has ever been demonstrated to exist much beyond the fact that many do believe that it does “in their head”.

Condemned to be free as it were. The assumption being that “somehow” the human species did manage to acquire free will but that many then seek only to “escape freedom” – the agony of choice in the face of uncertainty – by convincing themselves that they are morally obligated to anchor themselves to one or another One True Path.

To Enlightenment. Even immortality and salvation.

In other words, the extent to which the objectivists among us simply ignore the points I raise pertaining to “the gap”, “Rummy’s rule”, dasein and the Benjamin Button Syndrome. Instead, they merely assume that as truly Enlightened men and women, the choices they make are necessarily the right ones.

As the author notes:

We’ll need a context, of course. Your freedom, my freedom, their freedom…given a particular set of circumstances in which conflicting goods are fiercely contested.

‘Cool Hand Luke’ (1967): Rugged individualist’s counterculture tale, underpinned by religion.
Paul Mavis

Try explaining that to Barbara. She was a woman I once worked with. She was a fanatical Objectivist. Spelled with a capital Ayn Rand. From her own fiercely ideological frame of mind, Lukas Jackson was just another loser. They were the bunch of them losers. White trash. And they all got exactly what they deserved.

Me, I first saw the film back in my own objectivist days. First as a Christian and then as a Marxist. But with each subsequent viewing of the video, I was coming closer and closer to seeing him as Sisyphus. There was no ultimate meaning and purpose to human existence, but even on a prison chain gang you could still shake things up. Really shake things up. If only by never giving up. At least until they shot him.

Here it all gets murky. To what extent is Luke self-conscious of how his behaviors are “shaking things up”? Big time in fact. Luke not only goes after the inmates, but the guards and the warden too. But, by his own admission, “I never planned anything in my life.”

Is the gist of him captured here…

You’re just not going to get from his ilk the sort of philosophical arguments you’ll get from those here of my ilk. And he either has the argument he’d need here or he’d “just know” how futile such an argument will be unless it comes anchored to the real deal God.

Paul Newman as the Existential Hero/Anti-Hero Cool Hand Luke
Ed Newman

You tell me: if you feel personally alienated in a world you are convinced is essentially meaningless and purposeless what on earth does it mean then to live that life “authentically”? Not only that but you are convinced in turn this ultimately absurd existence ends in oblivion…?

What exactly is calling you to choose one set of behaviors rather than another?

On the other hand, there can be a world of difference between living a life that is bursting at the seams with any number of fulfilling opportunities/options, or, instead, when others ask you about your life, you attempt to define it into existence for them?

Then back to this part:

Pinned down perhaps by this grim description: “The agony of choice in the face of uncertainty”.

Explored by William Barrett in regard to value judgments as follows…

“For the choice in…human [moral conflicts] is almost never between a good and an evil, where both are plainly marked as such and the choice therefore made in all the certitude of reason; rather it is between rival goods, where one is bound to do some evil either way, and where the the ultimate outcome and even—or most of all—our own motives are unclear to us. The terror of confronting oneself in such a situation is so great that most people panic and try to take cover under any universal rules that will apply, if only to save them from the task of choosing themselves.

my emphasis

Universal rules?

To wit:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_r … traditions
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_p … ideologies
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_s … philosophy

Or perhaps you’ve come up with a brand spanking new path to enlightenment?

Well, if it includes immortality and salvation and you are actually able to demonstrate that it is the one true path, by all means, tell me about it. All I want “here and now” is to be convinced that it might possibly be the real deal.

Paul Newman as the Existential Hero/Anti-Hero Cool Hand Luke
Ed Newman

Historically, existentialism as a philosophy is, in my view, derived from Nietzsche’s conjecture that “God is dead” and as a result of contemplating “what is to be done?” in the wake of the First World War, the Great Depression, the Second World war and then the reality of living at time where [re the Cuban Missile Crisis] a nuclear holocaust was seemingly eminent.

Then my own personal fascination with how in a No God universe, one ought to live given a world bursting at the seams with both conflicting goods and contingency, chance and change.

Either existence is prior to essence here or one way or another science, philosophy or theology would provide us with an answer to that question which would render “the agony of choice in the face of uncertainty” moot.

Though, sure, if you are convinced of your own answer, by all means, bring it down out of the philosophical clouds and explore it, well, existentially, out in the world plagued with countless moral and political and spiritual conflagrations.

You tell me: youtu.be/k3oMPqUTxCE?si=Goq6P0xaFkfddPP0

Of course, to the extent he is seen as embodying the second coming of Christ…isn’t that the extent to which everything else in the movie [as with everything pertaining to our own lives] comes to revolve around Judgment Day? Ultimately whatever the prisoners and the guards and the captain and you and I did, do, will do…it either results in immortality and salvation or eternal damnation.

No, the reason seemed to revolve around living in a small town, someone pissing him off and him getting even with them. At least in his head: “You could say I was settling an old score.”

Of course, like I always point out, given the Benjamin Button Syndrome, he does something seemingly trivial at the time and it results in Godfrey shooting him in the neck. Killing him. That’s how human interactions unfold. We only have so much of a grasp of or control over any number of variables in our life. Then the part where, rooted existentially in dasein, he stops being the war hero and starts in on “destroying municipal property while under the influence of alcohol”.

Distractions are what I call them. Only, out of prison you have access to so many more of them. After all, there are none to speak of where Luke is heading on the bull gang. So, one by one by one, he creates them. Anything and everything to make what’s left of their lives there more endurable. Luke both entertains them [and himself] and astonishes them as, over and again, he made fools out of the “authorities”.

On the other hand, to what extent did Luke Jackson ponder all of this as the characters in No Exit and The Stranger did?

If you are referring to ‘The Stranger’ , then yes three thumbs up.

However here you say:

“ Either existence is prior to essence here or one way or another science, philosophy or theology would provide us with an answer to that question which would render “the agony of choice in the face of uncertainty” moot.”

But then the last man can be attributed with mmesur with either illusion or delusion. Hence a middle ground of a happy image of an in-between be found so time to ponder , with no time(measurable) left, hence it’s expected that existence and essence will become a sudden source of disillusionment or worse , and become the the re-birth of tragedy .

C’est de trop mon ami.

Zoooooottttttttt

Ok, asset de temps-, non

…and the reason for it cause at times feeling like one of the last men

Paul Newman as the Existential Hero/Anti-Hero Cool Hand Luke
Ed Newman

So, is this “never give up” mentality something he derived from an excursion into existential philosophy? Is his battle with the human condition analogous to Sisyphus and the boulder.

Who knows? He is a fictional character, so you would have to ask the author, Donn Pearce. Did he imagine Luke as the embodiment of a “philosophy of life”?

Or, instead, are his behaviors more applicable to the manner in which I construe dasein here. He lived a particular life and as a result of a particular accumulation of personal experiences this is just how he came to view himself out in the world with others? Something he did not give much thought regarding…as those like Camus and Sartre did in their own works.

In other words, one can imagine someone in a prison bull gang today “in reality” acting as he did. Okay, Mr. Serious Philosopher, deconstruct him.

Also, another crucial point in the film is that everyone has their breaking point. Eventually the Captain and the bosses did break Luke:

Dragline [mimicking Luke]: “Don’t hit me, boss…don’t hit me. I’ll do whatever you say.” You an original, that’s what you are. Them mullet-heads didn’t even know you was fooling.
Luke: Fooling them, huh? You can’t fool them about something like that. They broke me. But they didn’t get my mind right. Not with no sticks. No sir.
Dragline: All that time you were planning on running again.
Luke: I never planned anything in my life.

Back to that again: determinism.

Or, instead, is this just another rendition of the “free will determinism” that some seem to espouse here. The external world is there lining up only as it ever could have, but “internally” you are still in possession of something akin to autonomy?

In other words, from my own frame of mind, to what extent is Luke “constantly discrediting the meaning in his actions” more or less the equivalent of this…

Paul Newman as the Existential Hero/Anti-Hero Cool Hand Luke
Ed Newman

Okay, but what does not change is this: that in the end “the ruling class” or “the deep state” or “the powers that be” or “the system” or whatever you want to call those who own and operate our lives still prevail. So, you may well admire how much Luke does accomplish with so little, but how relevant is that to the lives that most of us live?

We create our own existential meaning because, well, what else is there? The bottom line still basically revolves around the reality of class and race and gender…demographics. Also, you either live a fulfilling life basically of your own choosing, or you struggle to survive from paycheck to paycheck…more or less embodying a life that can be “solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short”.

In other words, so what if life is inherently, essentially meaningless? After all, few of us live our lives philosophically. So, it’s not like we can pin down whether or not Luke is someone to admire [as I did] or [as my friend from work insisted] is someone who is basically “just a loser”.

In fact, toward the end Luke brings God directly into the plot: youtu.be/OmPe77m7aCs?si=Ko9-ihwbTRfcGwML

What to make of it? Well, again, each of us as individuals will take out of it it what we first put into it…our own rooted existentially in dasein “self”.

And if there is no God?

Same thing of course. Only considerably more problematic.

Simone’s Existentialist Ethics
Anja Steinbauer on Simone de Beauvoir’s Ethics of Ambiguity.

So, how do I differentiate ambiguous ethics from fractured and fragmented ethics? Well, for one thing, I would never speak of human interactions as either morally authentic or inauthentic. My own moral philosophy is [in my view] considerably more cynical and pessimistic. In fact, the only constructive – if that’s the right word – aspect of my own perspectivist assessment is that at least as a moral nihilist I have access to considerably more options. Or, rather, I did when I was younger.

On the other hand, come on, there are any number of contexts we can find ourselves where there are few if any viable options. And while there may not be an essential, objective human nature, existentially actual individual lives can unfold in very, very, very different sets of circumstances producing very, very, very different moral and political narratives producing very, very, very different human behaviors.

So, to what extent did those like Satyr take that into account?

Tell that to any number of these…

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_r … traditions
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_p … ideologies
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_s … philosophy

…guys and gals.

Tell that to any number of these…

forum.philosophynow.org/viewforum.php?f=8

…guys and gals.

On the other hand…

But if there is no essential, objective human nature how would one go about pinning down the nature of human relationships? If, for example, different people have conflicting assessments regarding any particular moral conflagrations and all courses of action are said not to be equally good then which behaviors can be deemed more rather than less rational, more rather than less virtuous?