Experience is our Teacher ??

Philosophy Forums Religion and Spirituality
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Did Socrates initiate this thought?

Seems to me this morning personal experience is a superior form of teaching/learning. The entire gamut of personal experience … dreams, observations, feelings, classroom, and so on.

I have the feeling how we respond to our personal experiences is more important than the experiences themselves. IOW … identify and contemplate our internal response to all our experiences … along the lines of St Ignacio’s examen of conscience.

Perhaps individuals who seem to have no internal response to some or all of their personal experiences are living a zombie like existence … the (un)examined life is not worth living kind of life … Socrates ??

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More emerging thoughts and memories.

The story of Joan of Arc comes to mind.
Apparently an authentic quote from Joan of Arc …

“When I was thirteen, I had a voice from God to help me to govern myself. The first time, I was terrified. The voice came to me about noon: it was summer, and I was in my father’s garden….I saw it many times before I knew it was Saint Michael….He was not alone, but duly attended by heavenly angels….He told me Saint Catherine and Saint Margaret would come to me, and I must follow their counsel; that they were appointed to guide and counsel me in what I had to do, and that I must believe what they would tell me, for it was at our Lord’s command.”

Seems to me whether the voices she claims she heard were real or not … her response to her personal experiences were real … some say her responses changed the course of history. Certainly gave her an enduring legacy … and for unknown reasons her ‘story’ was brought back … to a degree … into Western consciousness a few years ago … the several movies about her life. Hmmm!

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More emerging thoughts and memories …

Joan of Arc died in 1431 … about the same year Zheng He … the well known (in China) … maritime explorer returned from his last expedition … which spanned 3 years and who knows the scope of the geography he observed. A provocative yet sparsely endorsed book “1421: The Year China Discovered America” raises several questions. A middle aged Inuit man who lived his life on Baffin Island told me when I was leaving for China that the Inuit have an oral legend … “the Chinese will return”.

One thing is certain … China effectively closed it’s doors to the rest of the world for more than 500 years … until about 1979 … after Zheng He’s final voyage.

During this same period … a generation or two after Joan of Arc … Europe embarked on a 500 year period of imperialism/colonialism.

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One does not have enough time to learn purely by experience. One has to rely on the experience of others. You are only where you are today because you stood on the shoulders of giants and dwarfs.

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Another WOW! post Phyllo

Isn’t it personal experience that lifts us onto the shoulders of giants and dwarfs though?

Let me share some notes I scribbled many years ago on the topic of how I ended up on the shoulders of Joan of Arc … Wikipedia was a factor … though only triggered by personal experiences.

[i]"When did I first encounter Ste Joan of Arc? I don’t know … although she has had an incredible influence on my ‘spiritual journey’ since June 2000 … when I found myself in Rouyn France … sitting under a huge iron statue of her on a horse … at the corner of Joan of Arc Street and ??? in had no intentions to go to Rouyn … I’m not sure but I think I learned after this experience that she was martyred in Rouyn. Her ‘story’ came to my mind in strange circumstances in Guelph in 1997.

Here are the circumstances surrounding this particular event. I was living in Guelph at the time, it was early in the morning … between 3:00AM and 4:00AM. Some may say it was the middle of the night!

In any event … it was one of those nights I felt compelled to get up and go out for one of my ‘coffee and cigarette runs’. At the time there was no smoking allowed in any of the local coffee shops … don’t know why but I decided to drive to the Tim Hortons at Highway 6 and the 401 … about 15 kilometers.

Seems I remembered they still allowed smoking at this particular Tim Hortons … in the ‘fish bowl’ … a small section of the coffee shop cordoned off with glass walls … usually very smoky…Yuk!

I arrived at the coffee shop … stopped the car and got out. Just as I stepped out of the car my ‘inner voice’ instructed me to take a pen and a piece of paper in with me. I stood there for a few seconds … mulling around in my mind what this unexpected and highly unusual sentiment was all about. I resisted for a bit and finally said to myself … OK … what the heck. I’ll take it in and see what happens.

I ended up writing a few words about a memory from Medugorje several years earlier … around the expression … “Any ‘dead’ fish can float down stream, it takes a ‘live’ fish to swim upstream”. Some thoughts about Joan of Arc and her going against the flow and changing the course of history. And the price one has to pay to go against the flow, people are simply not willing to pay the same price she paid … being burned at the stake. No more … seemed that was all I had to write. So what was this all about? … Who knows? … Why did I save this particular ‘scribbling’ … who knows? … Who really cares?

As I write about this unusual experience … the bizarre nature of it strikes me even more … something wakes me from my sleep … gets me out of bed and to a coffee shop 15 kilometers away to scribble a 100 words or so … hmmm … the words must convey something important?

Reminds me of the biblical story of Samuel … he hears a voice calling him in the night … he gets up and goes to his master and says … “here I am”.

Here is what I wrote that night:

"I was reminded this morning of a cliché I heard in Medugorje (Bosnia Herzegovina) several years ago: “Any ‘dead’ fish can float down stream, it takes a ‘live’ fish to swim upstream”
Harsh words?
Begs the question … how is it that so many people perpetuate a ‘miserable life’ … day after day! The ‘misery’ is simply a question of degree … some days are simply ‘more miserable’ than others
We know in our ‘hearts’ that this is not good … yet we persist …
The story of Joan of Arc comes to mind … Joan was one of those people who refused ‘to go with the flow’ … some say she changed the course of history … and her ‘mission’ only lasted a couple of years. Those who know the ‘story’ also know the ‘price’ she paid.
Is it the ‘price’ we know we will have to pay if we choose ‘to swim upstream’ that keeps us ‘floating downstream … despite how ‘rough’ the ride gets.
Today, I don’t think we are worried about being ‘burned at the stake’ … the ‘price’ today (and always has been) … those who go against the flow are treated as ‘lepers’ by mainstream society.
Seems to me, the pain of ‘isolation’ is greater than the pain of participating in a ‘culture’ that we know is not producing good ‘fruit’.
“Any ‘dead’ fish can float downstream; it takes a ‘live’ fish to swim upstream”
PS At the same place (Medugorje) … Father Phillip(from the pulpit) uttered these words … “fighting for peace is like fornicating for chastity”

The phrase … “Any ‘dead’ fish can float downstream; it takes a ‘live’ fish to swim upstream" … would pop back into my consciousness during my Camino St Jacques in June 2004. Here are the thoughts on that particular day:

Just occurred to me, the ‘seed’ may have been planted in 1995. I quote an expression heard on my first visit to Medugorje … Yikes!! … my mind takes a long time to ‘incubate’ an idea or notion … more accurately … my mind had nothing to do with the ‘incubation’ … 9 years is still a long time eh!

On with my meditation/reflection. You may recall I prefer the expression “It’s time to shit or get off the pot” and it seems to me the two are analogous …“It’s time to fish or cut bait”

Let’s break the expression up into 5 components and examine each component separately.

  1. “It’s time”…

  2. “to shit” …

  3. “or” …

  4. “get off” …

  5. “the pot” …

"It’s time … these two little words seem to convey a sense of urgency … a sense of ‘now’ … the present … a finite … specific … and definite point in time … (just noticed that the similarity between the words ‘finite’ and ‘definite’ … wonder if it is intentional?

“to shit” … the word ‘shit’ has an impolite connotation and for many is considered inappropriate in all human conversation/writing. Let’s set aside the ‘morality’ implications and look at what the word is intended to convey. The process of expelling unwanted … unnecessary for the maintenance of good health … well being … the component of that which was ingested … orally or otherwise … that is ‘no good’ … sometimes it is simply everything eaten expelled … our biological system is not in the ‘mood’ for separating what is good and necessary from what is ‘bad and unnecessary’ … a condition known as diarreia!

All living creatures do it! … expel waste that is!

A very necessary act … most of us know the feeling when our biological system refuses to ‘expel’ this stuff … often referred to as constipation … uncomfortable and at times painful indeed!

The timing is normally unpredictable … you don’t hear someone saying …"I will go for a shit tomorrow afternoon … let’s say at 3:00PM!

It happens when it happens … young newborns provide an interesting perspective … their facial expressions and vocal expressions during some of their ‘acts of expulsion’ are memorable … they have not yet learned any rules of ‘politeness’ … they simply do what comes naturally.

All of this suggests the process of expelling the unnecessary and un-wanted is sometimes painful and uncomfortable … I will return to this point later.

“or” … simple enough … infers choice … alternative … one or the other … not both.

“get off” … infers movement … exit … change locations

“the pot” … a specific location … a public place … a communal place. Why say ‘get off’ in the first place? … other than to make room for someone else. We all know the feeling when we find ourselves in those uncomfortable circumstances where our biological system tells us it is “time” and someone else is on the ‘pot’ in the bathroom.

Another reference point that came to mind involved ‘toddlers’ … that age where parents are trying to teach their children one of the rules of ‘civilization’ … it is not OK to expel waste whenever and where ever you like … one of ‘civilizations’ revolts against nature! This ‘act of expulsion’ is a personal and private act and one must follow the rules. OK so all parents can surely remember a time when their toddler was sitting on the pot and yet nothing is happening … the toddler is having a good time … but the parent grows impatient … eventually … perhaps without being explicit … without saying to the toddler …“shit or get off the pot” … the parent somehow displaces the toddler.

Suppose for the purpose of meditation the ‘pot’ symbolizes the earth and the ‘shit’ symbolizes all that is unnecessary for our well being. Actions of mankind … aggression … war … notion of private property etc.

Perhaps Mother Nature will behave the same way as the impatient parent and ‘displace’ us … kick us off the planet!

Let’s add to this image my comments earlier about how sometimes the ‘act of expulsion’ is at times painful and difficult … especially if the ‘waste’ has been in our system for a while."[/i]

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What would not count as learning by experience, as you see it? IOW you are arguing that experience is the main way we learn or perhaps the only way or the best way? What other ways of learning are you trying to say we do not need or are less valuable?

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Probably best illustrated by a couple of examples … my real life examples

[i]1) In this story I could have ‘learned’ by accepting my brother in law’s practical advice … rather I opted to follow my intuition. IMO the outcome was dramatically different under the option I chose.

"Somewhat disappointed with my research in Mississauga I decide to head home; resigned to the fact that this experience was just another ‘dead end street’. A spontaneous and impulsive action on my part, with no basis in logic … seems my actions were anchored in ‘faith’ … a faith that seemed to be failing me at the time. Or so I thought … was I in for a big surprise!

As I was pulling off onto the ramp for highway 401 I passed two young women hitch hiking. I decided to stop and offer them a ride … not sure of my motives … was I feeling Franciscan (charitable)? … was I lonely? … who knows? All I know is whatever was behind my feelings … it was strong enough to compel me to stop.
The young women were hitch hiking to London … they were on their way back to school. They were pleasant young ladies so I decided to drive them all the way to London; a considerable distance past Guelph … hmmm. W hat were my motives? … Were they Franciscan charity, loneliness … who knows? Here I am on my way to London … the place my parish priest suggested … the advice I chose to ignore… … Hmmm!.

Along the way, I am pretty sure somewhere past the turn off to Guelph, the young lady in the back seat starts to talk about her experience on a kibbutz in Israel. My ears perk right up; This topic is very appealing. She doesn’t say much only that people who go to a kibbutz, work six days a week in exchange for free room and board. Sounds perfect to me … a chance to wander around Israel … within my budget!

The next day I go to visit my sister Judy in Guelph and ask her for a ticket to Tel Aviv on the next available flight. At this time Air Canada provided what they call ‘buddy passes’ … Air Canada staff could give these buddy passes to family and friends. The holder could travel standby on any Air Canada flight for a nominal fee.

You can imagine the reaction from my sister and her husband. I had only been back a couple of months from my trip to Medugorje and here I wanted to ‘run away’ again. I remember her husband’s reaction in particular. He said to me … “Bruce … go to the Israeli consulate in Toronto, find out about the kibbutz program and then decide if you still want to go. Being the strong willed (stubborn) and self reliant person I am, I ignored his practical advice and pressed my sister for a ticket. My sister, being the kind hearted soul she is … obliged and within a couple of days I was checked out of the Maples Inn and on my way to Israel!
Seems to me that this is a fine example of following the “Holy Spirit”.

Arrived at the airport in Tel Aviv and found an information Kiosk where I was able to get directions to the administration offices for the kibbutz program. Found the bus into the city … overheard some ladies chatting behind me on the bus … in English … highly unusual. One of the ladies was explaining that the bus driver was nervous because another bus had just been blown up in downtown Tel Aviv … Yikes!! Welcome to Israel! My guess is the bus blew up about the same time the wheels of the Air Canada jet touched down at the Tel Aviv airport … not a good omen I thought to myself.

Found the kibbutz admin office. Within a few minutes I was sitting in front of one of the administrators; he had a strange look on his face. He’s thinking to himself what is this guy is doing here inquiring about the kibbutz program. He asks me if I am familiar with the rules and regulations of the kibbutz program … I respond … nope! He passes me a sheet a paper with the main regulations … the second or third regulation written on this sheet was … maximum age 32 … oh shit!!

My sister’s husband was right! I should have went to the Israeli consulate in Toronto and checked out the Kibbutz program before travelling all the way here. This explains the look on his face … at 43 I was obviously well over the age limit. He explained to me that most of the volunteers were between the ages of 18-22; young people trying to get away from parental influence and older volunteers had caused lots of problems in the past. Oh joy!!

I guess he recognized the ‘Oh Shit’ look on my face because he seemed to become friendlier all of a sudden. He asked me how long I intended to stay in Tel Aviv. I replied … I’ll probably grab a coffee and go home! He suggested I go for the coffee and come back in a couple of hours.

I went and drank a coffee … surprisingly I’m not feeling too bad … not particularly discouraged and not overly optimistic … simply OK. Returned to the office a couple of hours later and I found myself on a Kibbutz Erez later that evening. Wow! … If I had gone to the Israeli consulate in Toronto I would never have come to Tel Aviv. Again … it seems I owed my Kibbutz experience to the “Holy Spirit” … and my willingness to ignore ‘people’ … even my family … and follow some invisible being.

Arrived at Kibbutz Erez … less than a kilometre from Gaza … probably explains why the machine gun was laying on the front seat as I got into the jeep that picked me up at the kibbutz.
[/i]
2) Learning about sharing

I was taught the propriety of sharing many different ways when growing up … here is a story with a bit of a twist.

[i]"Kibbutz volunteers received a spending allowance of about $75.00 per month which could only be spent at the kibbutz store, similar to a Mac’s Milk store. I would buy cigarettes and occasionally an ice cream treat or chocolate bar.

One day on the way back to my room … had just finished work … I stopped and bought a chocolate bar … a big one. I started eating it on the way to my room. A little further along there was a group of volunteers sitting on the grass chatting. One of them saw me coming and invited me over to join them. I mentally agreed and while I was heading in their direction I got to worrying about my chocolate bar. I was in no mood this particular day to share my precious chocolate bar … see I am not very Franciscan at all!

I decide to keep my chocolate bar out of sight of the volunteers. I sit down on the grass and put my chocolate bar behind my back … for safe keeping!! …Wrong!! A minute or two later this big dog comes along grabs my chocolate bar and takes off with it. I try to reach out to grab it … no luck … he was too fast.

You can imagine my embarrassment. I’m sure several of the volunteers would have figured out that I had selfishly hidden my chocolate bar from them so I wouldn’t have to share it with them. I made it kind of obvious when I lunged after the dog!

On that day and so many times since then I have tried to figure out the ‘lesson’ to be learned from this particular experience. The obvious answer is … it is important to share … even personal treats!

Today I have another twist on the potential lesson … don’t know why after all these years I come up with this today? Perhaps the ‘lesson’ was intended to go beyond the ‘material’ world … something to the effect … if one does not share the wisdom one has been given … it will be taken away.

I believe Cabbala … the mystical sect of Judaism … teaches this truism. I understand that if their members do not share what they receive … Cabalists, being those who pursue mystical experiences presumably would receive ‘wisdom’ from beyond the physical and material realm … they will not receive any more … the tap will be shut off so to speak."
[/i]

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You followed your intuition. Is this an example of learning from experience, instead of following advice or learning from internal revelation instead of learning by experience`? Is deciding by intuition better than deciding by getting advice? Is it a bad idea to get a book on how to repair your bike rather than say following your own intuition?

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IMO both/all are OK … every path is OK … perhaps even necessary.

Ranking is subjective … people are often subjective.

On occasion … in my personal experience … personal intuition … internal revelation … seemed to nudge me in a direction I might otherwise not have gone.

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More emerging thoughts …

How many times has the following dialogue taken place … if not between 2 or more individuals … within the mind of a single individual.

Questions:

  1. Why did you do that?
  2. How could you do that?
  3. Why did you say that?

Answer:

I don’t know … it just felt like the right thing to do/say at the time.

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“Experience is the best teacher; but a fool will learn from none other.”–Benjamin Franklin