By no biological, i simply mean that tiring of muscles, protection of eyes or light/darkness are not its real causes.
Otherwise, as closing of eyes is related to body thus it is cartainly a biological phenomenon in that way.
Means, one may sweat by fear. Now, what would you call it? Mental cause or biological cause? Are those harmones that instruct body to sweat the real cause or fear felt by the mind?
with love,
sanjay
sanjay—eyes are more important than ears for survival…
James,
That same question stands again that why mind is interested in only closing eyes but not about other sense organs like nose and ears?
with love,
sanjay
I don’t really think of anything much with regard to someone’s user name, except, possibly, bits of previous conversations.
I use all my senses equally, it depends on the situation which one is dominant.
I see a number of reasons.
Smell and hearing function exactly the same way whether there is daylight or not. Sight requires light and is of limited use in the dark.
You are still required to breathe when sleeping, so closing the nose is not an option.
The nose is not particularly delicate. The delicate parts of the ear are at the end of an enclosed canal, which makes them less vulnerable than the lens of an eye. The lens is fully exposed when open - a small stick in your bedding could permanently damage it.
Yea, bugs could try to go in the nose and ears. That’s why there are sensitive hairs in the area which alert you to crawling bugs.
I understood that, but it makes no sense to me. If you look at other mammals, they also close their eyes when sleeping. Therefore, it can’t be caused by mind or thinking.
The sweating is an automatic response, is it not? Why would you think to do it? What would the reason for having such a thought?
I mean to say that mind does not relese melatomin for closing eyes during the sleep because of avoiding soring, giving eylids rest, because of light, etc. The real issue is related to the our thinking process.
Bingo! Thanks Mithus. You offered a great help. You confirmed my opinion by telling all this. I will explain that later.
These people are certainly not mindless, as we define mind. They are rather facing partial brain damage.
with love,
sanjay
duplicate
That is true and i do not deny it either. Having said that, ears are enough important to be damaged. Some people even use to sleep with slightly open mouth also.
with love,
sanjay
You do not get what i am asking. I am not asking what you think about a user name.
I am asking how you use to think? I am asking what is your mode of making references about a user name?
LIke, as you said earlier that when you think about the persons close to you, their smell comes first to your mind.
It means that your sense of smelling the point of reference in the case of people close to you. In the same way, what is first point of reference in the case of user name?
It cannot be conversations because that needs a lot of memory and time to be provoked, though it will come to mind but only later, after point of reference. Point of reference is something like a trailer of the film or a topic of an essay, so that one can have a fair idea what the essay is all about.
Like, the title of this thread, Eyes and sleep, is the point of reference to this discussion to all those, who participated in it. The discussion that we have in this thread, will be stored in our mind in the name of Eyes and sleep. And, whenever we see that heading in the future, this thread will flash in our mind. That flash will not include complete discussion but mind will recognize this thread from that.
I am interested in that flash of reference only.
Say, someone will pronounce many user names of the members to you, one after another, without giving a break. That would not give your mind enough time to recall the conversation had with them, but you still will be able to recognize all user names because your mind has been made point of references to all of them and it needs not to go in the details all the time.
Maia, you have to introspect bit deeply for that. Try to see how your mind use to work and in what way that flash occurs about different things most of the time? Is it smell, sound or shape?
That is not possible, neither for you nor for anyone else. You are saying this because you never thought about this. Every one has one most preferred sense organ and it is eyes for all those, who have vision. There must be one for you too.
with love,
sanjay
Are you saying that animals do not have mind and cannot think either?
Sweating is an automatic response but only when the body becomes more heated than required level and sweating brings down the temprature. No cognitive thinking involved. Your mental state neither start nor stop that process. But, when you sweat fearing a ghost in a dark cold night, it is caused purely by cognitive thinking.
with love,
sanjay
There is no reason to introduce mind and thought when an automatic reflex explains the action. Why would gerbils need to think about closing their eyes when they sleep?
That is a stress reaction. It’s built into animal biology as a survival mechanism. A loud noise at night will initiate the fight or flight reaction in humans, just as it does in other animals. No thought required.
+++I am asking how you use to think?+++
I’m sorry but I don’t understand exactly what you mean here, since it’s not proper English. Do you mean “I am asking what you use to think?” or “I am asking how you used to think?”
When I read a user name the first thing that pops into my head (if anything) is snippets of remembered conversations. Not everything, and probably not verbatim either, but the general gist. This happens immedately, as soon as I encounter a particular user name.
I don’t have an overall dominant sense, it very much depends on the situation. When I dream all my senses are present in equal strength.
Actually I was trying to refute you, but now I’m pretty curious about your explanation.
Maia, first of all, i hope that i am not bothering you by this questioning.
That is it. Pardon my English.
You are right. That general gist is my only concern. Even the snippets of remembered conversation are not short enough to make those flashes. It has be something even shorter than that. Something in the tune of a fraction of a second.
It certainly depends on the situation but only initially. But, at last, most of the sensations (if not all) are duduced by the mind it its default/preferred sensation. It happens at very micro level and we do not pay attention to this fact either.
Like, the flash reference for an apple can be in the picture, in the taste, in the smell or in the shape (not picture but its touch/size/dimension), but mind will aways choose its picture as a reference point. No one in this world remembers an apple from its size or taste. Though, it may be its smell or taste in your case.
In your case, my guess is that you have to depend on hearing more than other senses, because that could be the only source by which you mind can recognize such remote things, which you cannot touch and smell. Secondly, eveything cannot be reognized by the touch and smell either. But, your mind can easily remember the sound of its name and use it to make reference point.
Am i right or wrong?
Well, that would be extreamly interesting and knowledgeable for me (and, perhaps for others too) to understand how you dream. I do not want to put more burden on you but i cannot resist my temptaion to ask you about how exactly you feel and understsand during the dreams.
with love,
sanjay
That is true or rather looks true prime-facie but it is not. It is merely a myth that reflex actions bypass mind. This is again the issue of making references to the memories as i was discussing with Maia. Body cannot do anything without seeking permission from the mind, whether reflexive or cognitive.
Let me take the example sticking thorn in the foot. We all know that when it happens, we withdraw our foot immediately from there and it looks that it is a reflex action and mind is not the part and parcel of this process. But, this goes very deep.
When a child starts realizing different sensations during the interactions from other things of this world, his mind starts making references to all incidents. Like, when he was hurt physically in anyway for the first time, his mind realizes the feeling of pain and as it does not find it pleasing, it registers that incident of getting hurt as pain. It must be a cognitive decision for the first time.
And, as the same incident happens again and again, and everytime mind comes across with the same pain, it puts more emphasis on to ger rid or reduce the time of decision making in order to avoid pain, as far as possible. Thus, the referece is now written in bold letters instead of normal language. And, after a certain time, cognitive portions of the mind gives standing instructions to the less cognitive portions of the mind to act in a particular way when a particur reference comes out. So, less cognitive portions of the mind start taking decisions o the behalf of higher mind in the cases of some predefined references.
That is why it looks that these are relex actions but actually they all are well though out decisions. Though, the thinking process is not repeated everytime.
It is someting like that the same disturbance happens again and again in any country. So, the legislature passes a concering and suitable law after a long debate to solve the issue and that law is told to the local administrators/police, so they do not have to go to the legislature everytime and can act according to that standing instruction. That saves time and enrgey and reduce harm too.
Say, that the troops of any negihboring coutry violates borders againa and again, and the head of the state declayers war and give order to attack the enemy. He will order his military commander to send troops and fight the enemy on the ground. The commander will ask his subordinates and those will further order ordinary soilders to kill the enemy. But, every soilder will not go the head of the state to seek permission before firing each bullet. He has standing order for that but remember, this decision is not his, but comes from the head of the state. He is merely executing that orders.
They have to close eyes for the same reason as of humans. There is no difference. Even humans do not think of closing eyes before sleeping.
How can you ever say that the mind is not envolved in the sensation of fear? Can any other part of the human body can feel fear? And, if there is no fear, there will be no sweat either. So, how it is not a mind related issue?
with love,
Sanjay
Mithus,
I am well aware of the fact that you were trying to refute me. And, i will explain that too but let me finish with Maia first.
with love,
sanjay
Haven’t kept up with the thread but anyway isn’t it pretty straight forward to think that because the mechanisms of sleep are affected by the presence or absence of light and are regulated by it, that bodies should have evolved to benefit from having a mechanism to prevent light from entering the eyes during sleep?
It looks pretty straight forward but it is not. I think that you should read the posts that you missed.
with love,
sanjay
This is contrary to everything that is known about reflex action. Unless you want to say that mind is not in the brain but instead everywhere in the body. Which is contrary to what we know about brains.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lazarus_sign
Each of those soldiers has a brain of his own - capable of following or interpreting instructions (or ignoring instructions).