Farewell ILP

Social Forums Non-Philosophical Chat
1

(Sorry to make a personal thread, I usually despise them myself)

[Note to reader: please do not look for coherency or contradictions in my thoughts; it’s an honest account, and I am unable to reconcile them]

Suicide… Ah, what a desition! I’m not just jumping into it (pun intended; chose to jump of a big bridge near my house), but I have given it some serious contemplation. The emotional pain fluctuates, so that is not what’s driving me over. It’s just that I can’t handle existence any longer. Can’t handle the suffering, of mine and of others. Can’t handle looking into the mirror and seeing the terrible sight of myself reflected back.

Think of it this way, its better of for the whole that those of us unequipped to handle life, those of us depressed and suffering, kill themselves. Of what use is our existence?–to cause everyone else more suffering? Let those who can handle life, live. Let them love life and cherish life. My death is not so meaningless for them, for it gives reason for them to cherish and value life more. Sure it’s absurd. But it’s even more absurd to go on with this absurdity!

Philosopically, I went from theism to nihlism. Nietzsche is wrong, the death of God does bring about nihlism. But this is only enough to encourage me to think that once I die, I die! I don’t care for any judgements of my desition–it’s an emotional one. And no reason can argue with my pain. This is the concrete effect and tradgedy of losing faith (for those of you who like to theorize and live in the world of the abstract; these ideas have very significant consequences and I hope everyone always keeps that in mind whenever engaging in philosophy).

The problem is to let go of hope. Hope… is false hope (for me). I shall always suffer upon this wretched planet. I know myself too well, and anyone that can ever truly know me will know this about me; therefore, love – as a means of salvation – is impossible.

I am weak willed, unequipped to handle life, as I just stated; I am miserable and making everyone around me miserable. I am isolated, a coward, and suffering. My value shall only be made known when I am no more – a very appealing thought at the moment, though, I realize there soon will be no one to think it.

Well, I don’t want to make my departure too long. Farewell to you brave ones who still challenge and confront this shit of a world. I will contemplate my desition a bit further, but I am rather sure my mind is made up. That much is sure, when I say I’ll do something I do it. I am at the unfortunate point where only some type of miracle may save me; some form of grace, but I doubt it very much. I’ve lived 20 years and have become cynical enough.

Cursed is existence, cursed are we! I’ve decided to kill myself within the next 2-3 weeks. If in three weeks time I haven’t (I think it shall come about much sooner within the next few days. I know I said 2-3 weeks but that’s an optimistic estimate; one must be aware of the duality within) then I’ll have courtesy enough to make a post as to why I haven’t (If a reason may be found). So you see, perhaps I am not completly without hope yet, but it is waning and waning fast. The hope is foolish of course. Imagine, to hope that something outside me can change me – who can change me but me? No, I doubt very much that I’ll make a response here in three weeks. That is precisly why I make this thread, for I consider the case allready closed, in fact, I am allready dead. That’s right, isn’t that something?

Think about it, I’m sitting here writing this, and yet, very shortly, I’ll be gone; so really, I’m allready dead. If you read this a month from the day it’s written then your reading a validated suicide note. Here I am one min., gone the next. Absurdity, I know! It ridiculous! But I like being the one dead. I prefer to be the dead writer then the live reader.

As a dead man, I wish I had something profound to say – I really do. Alas, I don’t have anything profound to say. No difference. I only wish this, I wish there would have been someone on this earth who would have been willing to accept my love. But I’ve found myself in a NO EXIT situation; Not currently, just the preceding years of my life. No, do not be foolish enough to think that I would kill myself over failure at love. It is the culmination of everything. In one word: despair.

Farwell, brave men and women, farwell.

2

Have you considered speaking with a professional? I was reminded lately that I am not the right person to ever understand the hidden world of despair, so I won’t try. But seriously, you should talk to someone who is trained to help with depression before you take such drastic and final measures.

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Hi, Underground Man. Not sure we’ve ever talked on this board but your post caught my attention. FRH is right. At least talk to somebody. You need to know you’re not alone and you need to work through your decision in a way that’s better than mulling it over all by yourself. Easy to get lost in the darkness that way. It’s tough sometimes to ask for help but what have you got to lose at this point? Good luck to you, my friend.

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I’m not one to make a plea, but I really think you should consider professional help before you kick the bucket. While it may not help you at all, it may very well and it can’t hurt to give it a shot.

While I don’t specifically understand your situation, I do understand where you are coming from. I, too, have been in despair for the past year or so and my life has had many more downs than ups. The more I look at humanity, the more I am disgusted and I’ve even questioned whether it is worth living or not. I came to the realization that while things my be bad now, I have nowhere to go but up. Good times come and go, just like the bad times…You need to realize that “This too shall pass.”

I’ve decided to seek professional help myself, and I hope you consider it as well.

Wishing you the best,
Rob

5

I tried to committ suicide once some years back. Your situation is probably quite a bit different from mine, but all I can say for certain is that it seemed like the more natural, obvious, reasonable thing to do at the time. Now, in hindsight and after reflection, I see that it’s wasn’t, and I clearly understand the error of my ways back then.
I guess what I’m trying to say is, don’t be afraid to admit that whatever explanation or rationale you’ve cooked up for this decision may be wrong, and that you may not be in the condition to think clearly on this matter- even if you think you’ve come to the right decision. Realize that in your current state, no rational argument for why you shouldn’t kill yourself will ‘work’ for you; whatever is going on in your brain won’t let you hear the truth.
Regardless of where you are, there are people who want to help you. If you don’t believe in compassion, then accept at least that there are people who are paid to help you, so they are going to try if you let them. My advice would be to stop letting your own thoughts guide your actions for at least a few days, let professionals take over, and do what they say (even if it seems pointless or dumb to you right now). After a week or so, reflect back on the way things seemed right now, and I bet you’ll see holes in your current line of thinking.

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If you are not morally or ethically averse to drugs (and I can’t imagine why anyone would be) you could easily cure your “despair” with medication. If I was as bummed out as you, I’d seek something pharmacuetical. Of course life is absurd and since it’s subjective – this condition we’re in-- it can mean pure and total despair, but it can also mean goofy, slaphappy fun…it really comes down to chemistry I think. imagine how lucky we all are to be born in a world where pain and suffering can be controlled. I don’t rely on medication (yet) but i don’t travel too far down philosophy lane either without full knowledge that some sort of anxiolytic is nearby. good luck. if you must die, please die well, but I’d rather see you dancing on all our graves, staring life force into the eyes of some baby…no lies, just love.

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Dont do this, I know what you mean by loosing hope, but still come on dont do it, if you do it I will do it too, so my death will be on your head!!! you jump I jump…you leave me no choice!!!

azizarif

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The professionals are likely to suggest the engagement of social activity - which is the only practical way to end your suffereing. However, it won’t help if you don’t prepare your mind for it. Your current “no exit” mentality is the obstical that will stop you from benifiting from social activity. The difficult part won’t be undertaking the activity, not for an individual who takes an interest in philosophy. What’s ironical is the object that you need to overcome, is your pessimistic philosophy that is turning your mind from the most effective social integration tool to an obstical of it. Now you see my point: ultimately, suffering of the mind is cured by directly confronting the mind. That might sound somehow impossible, that’s why this kind of suffering is common.

I wouldn’t stop you if your suffering was to do with some nasty illness, because that would be the truely “no exit” situaion. Obviously, your problem is ultimately associated with the mind, and the mind can’t be in the “no exit” situation - you need to believe this very statement if you want an alternative - you need to believe that you can choose not to suffer. Once that believe in you is firm, go seek proffessionals and take their practical helps.

I’m not asking you to have faith, which no philosopher should have. I’m simply trying to say that reason has the power over emotion. Are you being unreasonable or not? I don’t think that’s the question. For me the issue is: life is a multi-faced object, you live on the face you see. That’s for a non-philosopher, for a philosopher: you live on the face you choose.

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It seems strange in a sense to try to talk you out of it- I’m enough of a nihilist to realize we all are already dead. Even so, it seems a waste to give up the remainder of the only thing you truly have. Twenty years isn’t such a long time, and life will throw many changes at you over the next twenty years, should you choose to accept them.

I also wish I had something more profound to say than a simple “don’t do it, Underground Man.” I further wish I could give you a bunch of reasons not to do it, but I can’t do that, either. When you reach the point where life scares you more than death, suicide looks pretty good. I’ve been there myself. In the end, simply curiousity about what will come next might be the best reason I can offer. While you live, there are possibilities. Life’s so short anyway that it doesn’t make much sense to be in a hurry. But that’s just me.

I don’t know if we’ll ever hear from you again, FM. I hope we do. Good luck to you. I hope you find what you need.

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Goodbye Underground Man. But if you decide not to go, please post again so others may know you are still alive. Me, I couldn’t care less. I think I’ve been dead for so long now, I’ve forgotten the real state of my existence. Ciao.

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If this posting is false. Then F YOU!!!..
If this posting is true. Well, I ask you to consider my few simple point for few minutes. After all, if your gonna be dead anyway why not consider my perspective for a momment?

My view on this is purely due to what I have gone through, so I’ll share little bit of it. Hopefully it is enough that you can relate to it in some way.

For the Most of my life I was misserable, unsure, and always sad. Reasons are many and it don’t really matter. One morning few years ago, I have realized how misserable I was and how badly i just wanted to end it. Living day to day was just going through the motion. How can that be? I am always seeking meaning of life and trying to understand myself."

Consider the following with upmost thought. “AND?”
Do you know what I have realized after 14 years of thinking, analyzing, and trying to understand about myself? “AND?”
Answer to everything was so simple and easy I could not believe it.

Did you know that some people forget to brush their teeth? Some people forget to put gas in their car. For people like us(i know few) we forget to Live. Our body is still kickin and ready to embrace life, but we get so caught up with things that really doesn’t matter that we forget to Live. + excuses we tell ourselvs.

You have mentioned that you don’t want to hurt people around you. ummm DUHHH?
Since you didn’t mention how you are hurting them it’s pointless to discuss it. But, if it’s some what of normal circumstance, aren’t you hurting them for rest of their life? I don’t know if you ever had death around you. But when someone that wasn’t even close to you die, sometimes it leave void and people suffer for long time. How many people do you know? Just guess how long they will live and add them together. (you maybe feel bit guilty, but isn’t it true?)

I do believe some people should die. I have met few. There are people in this world that just don’t desserve the air they breath. But, from what you have told us, you sound like more like headless chicken rather than a scum bag.

-Barni
P.S: I have never seen this many depressed people in one place.

Last year I went through panama canal. I was working like a slave,but for me it was exciting. When i thought about few years preivus to this moment, I was like O_o;;

12

Dear Underground man,

Now I know why you brought up suicide in my hope thread. And I gave you a bit of a glib, “I’m just trying to hypothetically prove my point” answer.

I think Phaedrus said most of what I believe, sometimes the only reason to keep on trucking is to see the next episode of Desperate Housewives, or find out tomorrow the answers to the crossword you did today.

That said, there are alternatives to shuffling completely off the mortal coil.

In 1996 I found myself at 27 (5 years out of uni) still wandering from meaningless temporaray job to job, quitting almost as soon as I got started, my circle of friends was swiftly shrinking to only the most drugged-up/alcoholic no-hopers, I’d started cycling through girlfriends, meeting-screwing-dumping/dumped almost on a monthly basis… I was
feeling like some kind of slime on the bottom of a rock, peeping out at night to get some kind of fix for my needs.

I had a very real feeling of life shrinking, closing in, becoming a nasty mean little cage. I knew that if I didn’t do something really soon… Well perhaps you are there now.

I got fired from my crap job after picking an arguement with the boss, took my severence pay and joined a CTEFLA course (enabling you to take a teaching position anywhere in the world) finished it, and took off. I wanted to just shrug off my old life like a dead skin - so I went from cold England to hot Turkey, from Christian society to Muslim society, from promiscuious mindset to no sex before marriage mindset. No Tv I could understand, no people I could understand. Any social interaction required full concentration. (Interesting aside - it’s very hard to lie when you first start speaking a new language + poeple react to you as if you are some kind of idiot savant, taking everything you say as profound, even if your just asking for milk.) Changed my surroundings as far as I could without sacrificing all semblance of creature comfort. Trying to communicate changed me for the better, trying to survive in a completely strange enviroment changed me for the better. Trying to teach people changed me for the better. I had so many things to do that I had no time to think about anything but doing them.

You say you hate your life. Change it. You say you hate yourself. Go somewhere where no-one knows you and become someone you like better. It’s easier than you think, immitate the person you want to be and after a while you will become them. All you have to do is to decide to go, equip yourself for the journey and go. Go.

9 years ago I came here with a telephone number and all my worldly possessions on my back, now I’ve been married for 8 years, have a job I do well and more importantly, like doing. We’ve just had a kid too - it was then that I pronounced myself cured.

You’ve more options than you think.

Post later to let us know your still knocking about.

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I think that’s age/experience speaking, Tabula Rasa. I enjoyed and agreed with your post. At the age Underground Man is at now everything seemed desperate to me. Every emotion was a crisis and I lived from one disaster to the next. My love life was an endless stream of 2 week affairs, my friends just the ones I drank & fixed with. To Underground Man, my life was in the shitter at 20 and I’d tried to kill myself (a pathetic attempt, but it was fitting for someone as pathetic as I was at the time).

Can I say that now, at 35, I’ve redeemed it all and become a Senator or captain of industry? Not by a long shot. But I went from a messed up fuck who was sexually abused as a kid and drifted thru life to a pretty well adjusted adult. Was it easy? Fuck no. It was a lot of work and trouble.

Again, I’m with Schopenhaur- he said that for society to expect us to live on as machines for others to use when we no longer wish to live for ourselves is an extravagent demand, I think he was right. But I feel deep sorrow when someone so young decides to pack it in. I don’t want to minimize your pain, UM, but I was in enough pain to attempt to off myself, and I suspect that most people have had the urge. But I went from a guy who lost his true love and wanted to die to later getting married. Okay, the marriage blew up in my face, but the fact is I didn’t think I’d ever even ever have a girlfriend again, but I later got married. Everything is so hot and cold when you’re that age…

Maybe this is a monologue that you’ll never read. If so, so be it. If you read this, and care at all about philosophy or are still in a rational place, then consider seeing what happens on Desperate Housewives next week. Or the week after. Commit “virtual suicide”- that’s to say, admit the life you have now is a bust and walk away. Become a new person; volunteer to help the ones that have it even worse. Move to another country if needs be. A sure cure for self absorption is to come in contact with the anguish of others. What do you have to lose? You’re already prepared to discard your life- consider trading it for a new one. You can always simply kill yourself later if you’re not happy with it.

We are a community of souls in suffering. Don’t let the pain fool you into thinking you’re alone- it’s the one sure connection you have to others.

Best wishes, Underground Man.

-P-

14

Depression is a health problem – bodies get sick and so do brains.

Suicidal thoughts are WARNING SIGNS that the brain is malfunctioning. Neurotransmitters aren’t firing correctly and/or serotonin is being over produced and needs to be corrected.

There are drugs that block the serotonin uptake and give you an “I don’t give a damn” feeling – which is what you need when thoughts make you want to act violently against yourself or others.
(Note: You may need to try several different types of drugs until you find one that has the desired effect)

I don’t believe suicidal people really want to end their life. What they really want is to END THE PAIN. This should be your aim rather than over reacting.

Your thinking has obviously played a large part in why your brain is malfunctioning, and that will need to be addressed later when the drugs kick in.

Having said that, the posts you have received here are great; they are intelligent and come from people who have had similar experiences and have come out the other end.

They show you that people are genuinely and deeply concerned about you. That’s got to be pretty cool? But you have to return the concern by going to a doctor. As Phaedrus says, you can always go back to plan A later.

We love you Underground Man and, for what its worth, this is the most profound post I have read on this board. We can argue about philosophical issues for ever but what you have brought up here, is where the rubber meets the road.

If it’s any consolation, I have been where you are now and I consider myself an atheist and a bit of a cynic… yet I am very happy. It IS possible.
Now… go see a fucking doctor!

15

The guys talking about killing himself and you people give him a lecture on mental illness? Yeah, that should fix 'em, fill his head full of the shit that is most likely at fault for making him depressed. I know you all mean well but seriously, that kinda shit ain’t gonna help him.

TUM, listen to me.

You can’t kill yourself, period. I won’t have it. If you would like to call me I’ll give you my phone number. If you need a friend, fuck it, move in with me and we’ll start a band or travel the world or something. If you need some leg I’ll get you a girlfriend…you’re not bad looking at all. I’ll take care of the expenses (the trip, that is, not the girls). Trust me, I’ll entertain you and keep you occupied. You will be born again as my brother and I will take care of you until the end of your days. I’m not kidding here, man, really I’m not.

And now I will blackmail you. If you kill yourself I will haunt your family for eternity. I will roll your mom’s house with toilet paper, throw eggs at her car, steal her mail, smash her windows, spray paint her house, and sabotage her air-conditioning unit. Now, you don’t want to put your mother through that do you? I didn’t think so.

Call me man. We’ll get this gig started and in three weeks we’ll look back at this and laugh.

I need you now more than ever, TUM.

DON’T do it.

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I can’t believe this shit. These ruminant weaklings and their gossamer of passivity.

This ain’t the fucking Dr. Phil show, people. The last thing a suicide needs is to calm down and think rationally, that’s the shit that got him there in the first place.

Wake up, TUM!!

Get angry. Tally up all those things that piss you off and set out to destroy them.

You say you’re fucked up so you’re going to leave this world? You got it backwards, pal. Its the world that’s fucked up, not you. You don’t owe this world shit. You will live. The world’s “problems” must die.

You seriously need to call me.

17

Detrop might be right, Underground man. I thought about that before posting then thought fuck it! (I was suggeting drugs; not analysis by the way)

I stormed into a pychiatrists office and told him to shut the fuck up with the anaysis and the advice and give me some drugs before I kill some someone (me). He obliged and when the drugs kicked in, NOTHING that previously bothered me mattered anymore.

You may not want to hear that Underground Man, if so, I apologise, but I wish someone told me that before I had a physical and nervous breakdown.

PS Feel free to PM/email me if you need to.

18

detrop wrote:

so true!!

UM, stop thinking, be angry and let it show, its high time that you do it, dont be afraid to loose your countenance…let it loose but show your anger and have a fresh start!

And dont do it!!!

azizarif

19

Are you making fun of me? Is this melodrama or do you truely share my enthusiasm for life?

Please, I am very sensitive and have been known to burst into tears at even the slightest quip.

If you are mocking me then my heart is broken. Looks like we’re going to have to sacrifice you to the sun Gods, in return for TUM’s life.

Guards, seize him!

20

This has to be some of the best advice I’ve ever read. In a world as cruel as this…your best bet is to make yourself in your own desire. Living a life controlled by others and forced to be a person you may not desire to be is self-defeating.

I was once briefly a Nihilist…after reading Nitzsche’s work on Nihilism…and became more depressed than I already was. Eventually I realized that in a world where there is no absolute truth, the self remains.