"Fear" from a Biblical perspective...

There are three relevant listings on page 73 in The New Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible’s Universal Subject Guide to the Bible (1990): Fear, Fear, godly, and Fearlessness. I inserted some Zondervan NASB notes.

While there do seem to be appropriate causes for fear, just remember that God is much greater than anything you may face in this life.

To fear the Lord is to take Him seriously. The one person in the universe most deserving our respect with reverence (how the word “fear” is meant in the verses below, as we shall soon see) and admiration is God. See my “worship” thread for more on this.

All of the verses in the index below speak positively of fearing the Lord and negatively of lacking the fear of the Lord. Below the index I will supply study notes from Zondervan’s NASB Study Bible (1999) – these will help explain what is meant by “fear” when we “fear the Lord”. Please see the original post for the NASB note on Gen 20:11. You will notice that this new post only refers to verses in the New Testament, as the goal is to show how we still take God seriously and respect Him under the new covenant of grace. God is still as awesome as ever.

It is our relationship to Him which has changed, if we accept it (Hebrews 10:19-25) [why couldn’t it be that way before? – because ideas… even THE Idea (the Word)… take time and experience for minds to digest… see my meme thread for more – to sum it up: to demonstrate to someone (teach them by example) that You love them no matter what (and expect them to do the same for others), there has to be a time before and after that demonstration, when You are not dying on the cross for their sins… …before that You are getting them ready to understand what the sacrifice means (some dude does that out of the blue, you put him in a straight jacket)… after that You are letting it sink in, and giving them plenty of time to accept or reject that You love them no matter what… and that You gave a sufficient demonstration of that – that no one could have done it for You – You had to come to them Yourself, or it would have meant nothing]. If you don’t get it yet – I can’t wait for you to realize how beautiful this is. It beats everything. He exists… and He is Truth and Love beyond anything you’ve lived or will live through in the world… On with the study…

Index of relevant verses in NT by Strong’s # – gleaned from Strong’s concordance’s listings on fear, feared, feareth, and fearing : 2124 Heb 5:7 (NASB: “piety”); 12:28 (NASB: “awe”); 2125 Heb 11:7 (NASB: “reverence”) 5398 Heb 10:26-31; 5399 Matt 10:28; Luke 12:5; Luke 18:2; Acts 10:2,22,34-35; 13:16,26; Rom 11:20; Col 3:22; 1 Pet 2:17; Rev 11:18; 14:7; 15:4; 19:5; 5401 Acts 9:31; Rom 3:18; 13:7; 2 Cor 7:1; Eph 5:21; Phil 2:12; 1 Pet 1:17; 3:2 (NASB: “respectful”); 1 John 4:18. Crosswalk has a free on-line lexicon so you can look these up by Strong’s #. Bob already covered some of the words in his first reply (ty).

Luke 12:5-7 note: fear Him. Respect His authority, stand in awe of His majesty and trust in Him. Verses 6-7 give the basis for trust. [ Ichthus: In keeping with the theme of this thread, it follows that if we fear God, we’ve no reason to fear anything else. See original post on “fearlessness”. ]

Acts 10:34-35 note: God is not one to show partiality. God does not favor an individual because of his station in life, his nationality or his material possessions (see not on James 2:1). He does, however, respect his character and judge his work. This is evident because “in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him” (v. 35). Cornelius already worshiped the true God, but this was not enough: He lacked faith in Christ (v. 36) (Ichthus: he does go on to accept Christ).

Romans 3:10-18 note: fear of God. Awesome reverence for God; the source of all godliness (see note on Gen 20:11).

Romans 11:20 note: fear. On the fear of God see note on Gen 20:11; see also Prov 3:7; Phil 2:12-13; Heb 4:1, “be careful”; 1 Pet 1:17.

Philippians 2:12 note: fear and trembling. Not because of doubt or anxiety; rather, the reference is to an active reverence and a singleness of purpose in response to God’s grace.

1 Peter 1:17 note: fear. Not terror, but wholesome reverence and respect for God, which is the basis for all godly living (cf. Prov 1:7; 8:13; 16:6).

1 Peter 3:2 note: chaste and respectful behavior. Their lives are to be marked by a moral purity that springs from reverence toward God.

1 John 4:18 note: no fear in love. There is no fear of God’s judgment because genuine love confirms salvation.

Revelation 15:4 note: Universal recognition of God is taught in both the OT (Ps 86:9; Is 45:22-23; Mal 1:11) and the NT (Phil 2:9-11).

Ways in which fearing God dispels irrational fears:

I. Healthy guilt/fear versus unhealthy guilt/fear: 2 Samuel 6:9 “So David was afraid of the Lord that day; and he said, ‘How can the ark of the Lord come to me?’” Zondervan NASB Study Bible note: “David’s anger was accompanied by fear—not the wholesome fear of proper honor and respect for the Lord (1 Sam 12:24; Josh 24:14) but an anxiety arising from acute sense of one’s own guilt (Gen 3:10; Deut 5:5).” That sort of conviction (guilt) is healthy. But there is guilt which is not healthy (an oversensitive, fallible conscience) – and for that, see 1 John 3:18-20.

“A guilty conscience that precedes sincere repentance is the conviction of the Holy Spirit. A guilty conscience following sincere repentance is condemnation that is not coming from God.” – Beth Moore.

II. “Fear not – for I am with you.” Those who have just given their hearts to God in a courageous leap of faith are very vulnerable to spiritual warfare and deception. Your mind may be flooded with doubts and fears… do not be overwhelmed, but see it as being tested by fire – a character-building opportunity to trust in God’s strength and truth. Calvary Chapel (your nearest one can be found by searching the web-site) has a handy free pamphlet that leads you through the Bible in a year – with a good study Bible (there are also free Bible study tools on-line; use Google.com to find them), that is an excellent way to get started on grounding your faith in solid doctrine. Remember these verses and stick close to God: Matthew 12:43-45/Luke 11:24-26 (after the initial change, you must rely on God’s living in your heart, a constant awareness of Him, to maintain the change). Rom 8:15,31; 2 Tim 1:7, Ps 118:6,18.

III. God is fair. Perhaps you are (or may become, if you don’t read and understand this) afraid you have committed “the unforgivable sin”? Here’s a short study on that: Job 2:9, Lev 24:10-16; Matt 12:30-32. Zondervan NASB note on Matt 12:31 “blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. The context (vv. 24,28,32) suggests that the ‘unpardonable sin’ was attributing to Satan Christ’s authenticating miracles done in the power of the Holy Spirit (see note on Mark 3:29).” Note on Mark 3:29 “whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness. Jesus identifies this sin in v.30 (cf.v.22)—the teachers of the law attributed Jesus’ healing to Satan’s power rather than to the Holy Spirit.” Please note that the leaders’ motivation was not devotion to God, but maintaining status quo (John 11:48). Note that throughout the Gospels, Jesus’ challengers did not deny the reality of the (object lessons) of the miraculous signs He performed on the Sabbath, nor the fact that He did cast out demons – but took offense to Jesus’ not following the letter of the law in His challenge for them to follow instead the spirit of it – they took offense to His correcting them. They were basically saying, “It is not the Holy Spirit who empowers the miracles performed by our enemy, but since someone supernatural must be empowering them – it is the ruler of the demons who empowers them,” – how else would they be able to reject His message, which is equivalent to the message of the Holy Spirit? They, the ones most qualified to “recognize”, could not have seen more evidence of the Holy Spirit than that – God did everything He could to get the message through to them… there is nothing more He could have done without violating their free will. That is what they were rejecting – that is why it cannot be forgiven. It’s not that He stopped loving them. It’s that they rejected that love.

The unpardonable sin is not to be confused with “sin leading to death” (1 John 5:16-17 note: “In the context of this letter directed against Gnostic teaching, which denied the incarnation and threw off all moral restraints, it is probable that the ‘sin leading to death’ refers to the Gnostics’ adamant and persistent denial of the truth and to their shameless immorality. This kind of unrepentant sin leads to spiritual death. Another view is that this is sin that results in physical death. It is held that, because a believer continues to sin, God in judgment takes his life [cf. 1 Cor 11:30-32 note: ‘disciplined. As God’s redeemed children we are disciplined—just as a human father disciplines his child—so that we might repent of our sins (cf. 2 Cor 7:10) and grow in grace (2 Pet 3:18; Heb 12:7-11)’]. In either case, ‘sin not leading to death’ (v.17) is of a less serious nature.” But, after all is said and done – God knows the heart of a man… whether or not he was given a fair enough chance… and what to do about it. God is just (fair), and because of that, you have reason both to revere and to take comfort in Him (1 John 1:9-10, Ps 23:4).

Unlike the Ramones song – God does not take His love away from you. If you are not experiencing it, it is because you have rejected it, or believe the lie that it is conditional (or that He doesn’t exist). Believe the Truth. He loves you like nobody else can… and (speaking from experience) He knows how to get your attention… but, ultimately… it’s up to you to accept Him. You are only (Melville’s) Ishmael by choice. You can also be a son by choice. Granted – He already knows what you will choose. When you enter into His kingdom, it will feel like He has taken you out of the slums (consider the current condition of your mind) and is showing you around unimaginable beauty, as if you are a distinguished guest… and you will be. But you will be home. Come as you are, a prodigal son… He is the only one who can get rid of all your garbage and heal all your gangrenous open sores.

IV. He calms the storm. If you ever experience the rest of your life flashing before (phenomenologically speaking) your mind (though you won’t recognize it as that until you live through some of what has flashed) or any other sort of mind-miracle that you can’t control (and it freaks you out…) here are some helpful things to keep in (phenomenologically speaking) mind:

  1. God, who is omniscient, omnipotent, and ever-present (including in your mind), can make it stop or at least slow down to something less freakish – but you must ask Him first. This may seem like blackmail if you don’t want to ask God for help (but you do want help), but it really is up to you. No one else you talk to about it can do anything to help you (and may just think you’re crazy… and, in a sense, your experience definitely counts as ‘abnormal’… and they may stick you in the hospital), besides praying for you. This (your salvation) is between you and God. Just remember, when He gives you back a sense of control, do not change your mind about God, like Pharoah kept doing (Ex 7-14), and bring it on yourself all over again (or way worse, Matt 12:43-45) – and do not keep what you have learned to yourself (like the Gnostics do – see “Against Gnosticism” and “Illumination vs. Gnosis”). Ezekiel 3:8-9.
  2. If you would like to know more about miracles and other spiritual gifts, see my most recent reply in “Illumination versus Gnosis” – and my “Signs” thread. Gnosis (whether or not it manifests as at least one of you understands it – accompanied by dissociation and delusion) is not God’s will for your mind – and He can make that stop, too (dissociation and delusion)… if you ask. Spiritual gifts and miracles do not have to be disturbing – but they often are at first, especially if you are a stranger to God.
  3. If you think Satan is causing your experience (seeing as it is unpleasantly uncontrollable), and that scares you out of your wits, not only because Satan is scary (to those who are not God and are not trusting God, and believe Satan exists), but because you don’t even believe Satan exists, and that you even considered it makes you feel like you’re losing your mind – trust God, and He will give you the weapons of warfare (Eph 6:10-20). Know that if Satan has anything to do with it – it is not without God’s permission (research the testing of Job and tempting of Jesus).
  4. If you doubt God exists in order to trust Him – then it looks like you’re stuck with an unexplainable miracle and no way to make it stop. Take a leap of faith, and see what happens. You’ve lost control of your mind – what else do you have to lose? He will catch you.
  5. If you’re worried you have the wrong concept of God, and so are trusting in what is not God when you trust in God (and you are understandably afraid of entrusting your mind to what is not God) – He hears you, and will help you come to know Him. It’s all in the Word – crack open your dusty Bible. All of my posts are a result of doing just that. See “Biblical criticism and interpretation” for starters.
  6. If this has never happened to you, and you’d like to keep it that way… take a preemptive leap of faith and you’ll avoid the whole mess (He’ll prepare you for any spiritual gift or miracle you experience, rather than springing it on you unexpectedly). I know, it seems like blackmail… but it’s no different than saying “avoid risky behavior and only put good stuff into your body if you value your life.” The storm (see ‘madness as spiritual suffering’ only happens to those who have willfully ingested copious amounts of bad memes. It’s a natural (spiritual) consequence – they practically signed up for it.
  7. If this has never happened to you, and you wish it would – you wish God would prove Himself to you (just shy of Armageddon), even if it really freaks you out – ask. And so that you know how to recognize Him when He does show Himself to you – fully research it in His Word. Perhaps He is waiting until you’ve read the entire Bible before He shows you? It is to your advantage. You don’t want to be freaked out.

Remember the key word: ask. Matthew 7:7. Revelation 3:20.

Here’s something kinda interesting on Matthew 7:7, btw…

Ask starts with “A”. Seek starts with “S”. Knock starts with “K”.

Put it all together: A. S. K.

ASK. He’s already right there, anyway.

Despite what you have offered us, I tend to look at Strong’s or Thayer’s translation because we need to know what kind of words are in the original texts and not, as you have offered, where the word fear has been used by translators.

The most common word used for “fear” in the NT is Φοβέω (phobeō) which means to frighten, that is, (passively) to be alarmed; by analogy to be in awe of, that is, revere: - be (+ sore) afraid, fear (exceedingly), reverence. Examples of this are as follows:
Mat 10:31 Then do not fear; you are better than many sparrows.
1Jo 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear has torment; and the one fearing has not been perfected in love.

This means that fear is, amongst other things, something that we feel when we are tormented by the thought that the outcome of an occurrence is uncertain or even likely to be punishment. In both cases, the believer is told that he should not fear, but should trust or subject oneself to love. If we feel that something alarms or frightens us, not just some biblical statement, we should review our relationship to God. Why should we fear if God is the archetype of love?

You say that I do not feel that Gnosticism is a false teaching, but that isn’t what I was pointing to. Phobia in its present meaning is a (pathological) persistent, irrational fear of a specific object, activity, or situation that leads to a compelling desire to avoid it. I was saying that this “irrational fear” is being invoked by a discussion about a “Gnosticism” of unclear definition by linking it to a form of “Gnosis” which has become a subject which perhaps should be reviewed. The Gospel of Thomas is an example of what has been referred to as Gnosticism without due study.

Another word used is Δειλία (deilia), which means timidity. An example of this is found here:
2Ti 1:7 For God did not give a spirit of cowardice to us, but of capacity and of love and of self-control.

I think that it is important to understand that humbleness or humility is not derived from fear or timidity, although I know numerous Christians who are timid. In many languages (like German: Demut) the word for courage is in the word for humbleness. It also means to be unpretending and unpretentious, but also submissive, meek, unassuming, plain, common, poor or polite.

That is why it is important to see that Christians have been given a spirit of capacity and of love and of self-control, which is necessary when leading a life which is built of the concept of love towards others. Many people are drawn to such a concept, but timidity is the last thing we need.

Another term which finds use in the NT is ἔκφοβος (ekphobos), which means to be Frightened out of one’s wits and can be translated as “sore afraid” or “exceedingly fearful”. An example of this is found here:
Heb 12:21 And so fearful was the thing appearing, Moses said, “I am terrified and trembling.” Deut. 9:19

Hebrews tells us that this kind of fear has past with Christ and that we can “draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, our hearts having been sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our body having been washed in pure water; let us hold fast the confession of the hope unyielding, for He who has promised is faithful.”

We are people with an unbending, almost obstinate hope in salvation, but we also know what it is we long for and what it is we have been promised. Therefore, it would be unwise to see us as a part of such a future and yet act contrarily in the present. Really, here is the golden rule once again.

Shalom

Good news… we agree mostly in this thread.

Do you still agree that the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom? If so – (just checking) – how do you understand “fear” in this verse (pick one that included that saying… I believe it is repeated)? I’m just curious if you see my presentation of fear-in-the-Bible as contradicting yours? Either way, I appreciate your additions (which I don’t feel contradict what I offered…). Your presentation is obviously more eloquent… goes down smooth and refreshing… thankyou.

– Bob

Do you feel that Gnosticism is a false teaching?

Here’s where I got my (perhaps false?) assumption that you felt I presented Gnosticism in such a way as to (purposefully) scare people…

– Bob (in my Against Gnosticism thread).

Perhaps I TOTALLY misunderstood you… which… I’m beginning to think is the case. Yuck.

– Bob

Care to meet me back over there?

I don’t recall mentioning the Gospel of Thomas?

Perhaps you support a version of Gnosticism, and if so – could you clearly define it over in the Gnosticism thread? For starters – how does it differ from the Gnosticism combatted in the New Testament?

This is off the topic of fear – if you would like to relocate to the Against Gnosticism thread… it’s cool with me.

Take care.

Hi Ichthus,

Job 28:28 And to man He said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom! And to turn from evil understanding.
Psa 111:10 The fear of Jehovah is the beginning of wisdom; all who do them have a good understanding; His praise is standing forever!
Pro 1:7 The fear of Jehovah is the beginning of knowledge; fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Pro 9:10 The fear of Jehovah is the beginning of wisdom; and the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding.

The word for fear, which is used in all examples, means to revere as well as fear, terror or fearing. The example being:
Lev 19:30 You shall keep My sabbaths; and you shall revere My sanctuary.

In the Greek, the word for fear is also used in the same way:
Eph 5:33 However, you also, everyone, let each one love his wife as himself, and the wife, that she give deference to the husband.

Seeing as the expression for fear was used in these various ways, we have to say that it is quite probable that in the vernacular, the word fear was used as loosely as in our day. This means to me that we can of course use fear in the severest meaning of the word, but we can also express reverence and awe with the word. I think that awe is fitting, because in encompasses the spectrum of emotion that makes me sit up and think when sentience comes.

I am a person who is very particular about language and even in my second language (German) I am known for being fastidious – even though the grammar does drive me batty sometimes. What I don’t like is the block of quotations which orientate themselves on the translation, not the original.

More about Gnosticism in your other thread.

Shalom

Bob – if you have already replied in agreement with this post (the one you’re reading), I apologize for the possible redundancy. I like to do my own research, y’know?

To fear the Lord is to take Him seriously. The one person in the universe most deserving our respect with reverence (how the word “fear” is meant in the verses below, as we shall soon see) and admiration is God. See my “worship” thread for more on this.

All of the verses in the index below speak positively of fearing the Lord and negatively of lacking the fear of the Lord. Below the index I will supply study notes from Zondervan’s NASB Study Bible (1999) – these will help explain what is meant by “fear” when we “fear the Lord”. Please see the original post for the NASB note on Gen 20:11. You will notice that this new post only refers to verses in the New Testament, as the goal is to show how we still take God seriously and respect Him under the new covenant of grace. God is still as awesome as ever.

It is our relationship to Him which has changed, if we accept it (Hebrews 10:19-25) [why couldn’t it be that way before? – because ideas… even THE Idea (the Word)… take time and experience for minds to digest… see my meme thread for more – to sum it up: to demonstrate to someone (teach them by example) that You love them no matter what (and expect them to do the same for others), there has to be a time before and after that demonstration, when You are not dying on the cross for their sins… …before that You are getting them ready to understand what the sacrifice means (some dude does that out of the blue, you put him in a straight jacket)… after that You are letting it sink in, and giving them plenty of time to accept or reject that You love them no matter what… and that You gave a sufficient demonstration of that – that no one could have done it for You – You had to come to them Yourself, or it would have meant nothing]. If you don’t get it yet – I can’t wait for you to realize how beautiful this is. It beats everything. He exists… and He is Truth and Love beyond anything you’ve lived or will live through in the world… On with the study…

Index of relevant verses in NT by Strong’s # – gleaned from Strong’s concordance’s listings on fear, feared, feareth, and fearing : 2124 Heb 5:7 (NASB: “piety”); 12:28 (NASB: “awe”); 2125 Heb 11:7 (NASB: “reverence”) 5398 Heb 10:26-31; 5399 Matt 10:28; Luke 12:5; Luke 18:2; Acts 10:2,22,34-35; 13:16,26; Rom 11:20; Col 3:22; 1 Pet 2:17; Rev 11:18; 14:7; 15:4; 19:5; 5401 Acts 9:31; Rom 3:18; 13:7; 2 Cor 7:1; Eph 5:21; Phil 2:12; 1 Pet 1:17; 3:2 (NASB: “respectful”); 1 John 4:18. Crosswalk has a free on-line lexicon so you can look these up by Strong’s #. Bob already covered some of the words in his first reply (ty).

Luke 12:5-7 note: fear Him. Respect His authority, stand in awe of His majesty and trust in Him. Verses 6-7 give the basis for trust. [ Ichthus: In keeping with the theme of this thread, it follows that if we fear God, we’ve no reason to fear anything else. See original post on “fearlessness”. ]

Acts 10:34-35 note: God is not one to show partiality. God does not favor an individual because of his station in life, his nationality or his material possessions (see not on James 2:1). He does, however, respect his character and judge his work. This is evident because “in every nation the man who fears Him and does what is right is welcome to Him” (v. 35). Cornelius already worshiped the true God, but this was not enough: He lacked faith in Christ (v. 36) (Ichthus: he does go on to accept Christ).

Romans 3:10-18 note: fear of God. Awesome reverence for God; the source of all godliness (see note on Gen 20:11).

Romans 11:20 note: fear. On the fear of God see note on Gen 20:11; see also Prov 3:7; Phil 2:12-13; Heb 4:1, “be careful”; 1 Pet 1:17.

Philippians 2:12 note: [i]fear and trembling.[i] Not because of doubt or anxiety; rather, the reference is to an active reverence and a singleness of purpose in response to God’s grace.

1 Peter 1:17 note: fear. Not terror, but wholesome reverence and respect for God, which is the basis for all godly living (cf. Prov 1:7; 8:13; 16:6).

1 Peter 3:2 note: chaste and respectful behavior. Their lives are to be marked by a moral purity that springs from reverence toward God.

1 John 4:18 note: no fear in love. There is no fear of God’s judgment because genuine love confirms salvation.

Revelation 15:4 note: Universal recognition of God is taught in both the OT (Ps 86:9; Is 45:22-23; Mal 1:11) and the NT (Phil 2:9-11).

Let me know if any of you were motivated by these studies to get a study Bible… as it is one goal of putting these study notes out there – to show you how many of your questions will be answered by just studying commentaries (that’s basically what study notes in a study bible are – commentary).

– Bob

The KJV was based off the latin vulgate, right? Is that what you mean? Whereas Strong’s starts back at the Greek? I think I tend to agree with you… I use NASB – I use NKJV for comparison (my concordance is based off KJV – that seems to be what you are disagreeing with?) (the cool thing is, it refers back to the Greek/Hebrew words being used). If I could get on-line more often, I’d go totally nuts with a bunch o’ different translation-comparisons… thanks for your reply. Take care.

Ways in which fearing God dispels irrational fears:

I. Healthy guilt/fear versus unhealthy guilt/fear: 2 Samuel 6:9 “So David was afraid of the Lord that day; and he said, ‘How can the ark of the Lord come to me?’” Zondervan NASB Study Bible note: “David’s anger was accompanied by fear—not the wholesome fear of proper honor and respect for the Lord (1 Sam 12:24; Josh 24:14) but an anxiety arising from acute sense of one’s own guilt (Gen 3:10; Deut 5:5).” That sort of conviction (guilt) is healthy. But there is guilt which is not healthy (an oversensitive, fallible conscience) – and for that, see 1 John 3:18-20.

“A guilty conscience that precedes sincere repentance is the conviction of the Holy Spirit. A guilty conscience following sincere repentance is condemnation that is not coming from God.” – Beth Moore.

II. “Fear not – for I am with you.” Those who have just given their hearts to God in a courageous leap of faith are very vulnerable to spiritual warfare and deception. Your mind may be flooded with doubts and fears… do not be overwhelmed, but see it as being tested by fire – a character-building opportunity to trust in God’s strength and truth. Calvary Chapel (your nearest one can be found by searching the web-site) has a handy free pamphlet that leads you through the Bible in a year – with a good study Bible (there are also free Bible study tools on-line; use Google.com to find them), that is an excellent way to get started on grounding your faith in solid doctrine. Remember these verses and stick close to God: Matthew 12:43-45/Luke 11:24-26 (after the initial change, you must rely on God’s living in your heart, a constant awareness of Him, to maintain the change). Rom 8:15,31; 2 Tim 1:7, Ps 118:6,18.

III. God is fair. Perhaps you are (or may become, if you don’t read and understand this) afraid you have committed “the unforgivable sin”? Here’s a short study on that: Job 2:9, Lev 24:10-16; Matt 12:30-32. Zondervan NASB note on Matt 12:31 “blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven. The context (vv. 24,28,32) suggests that the ‘unpardonable sin’ was attributing to Satan Christ’s authenticating miracles done in the power of the Holy Spirit (see note on Mark 3:29).” Note on Mark 3:29 “whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness. Jesus identifies this sin in v.30 (cf.v.22)—the teachers of the law attributed Jesus’ healing to Satan’s power rather than to the Holy Spirit.” Please note that the leaders’ motivation was not devotion to God, but maintaining status quo (John 11:48). Note that throughout the Gospels, Jesus’ challengers did not deny the reality of the (object lessons) of the miraculous signs He performed on the Sabbath, nor the fact that He did cast out demons – but took offense to Jesus’ not following the letter of the law in His challenge for them to follow instead the spirit of it – they took offense to His correcting them. They were basically saying, “It is not the Holy Spirit who empowers the miracles performed by our enemy, but since someone supernatural must be empowering them – it is the ruler of the demons who empowers them,” – how else would they be able to reject His message, which is equivalent to the message of the Holy Spirit? They, the ones most qualified to “recognize”, could not have seen more evidence of the Holy Spirit than that – God did everything He could to get the message through to them… there is nothing more He could have done without violating their free will. That is what they were rejecting – that is why it cannot be forgiven. It’s not that He stopped loving them. It’s that they rejected that love.

The unpardonable sin is not to be confused with “sin leading to death” (1 John 5:16-17 note: “In the context of this letter directed against Gnostic teaching, which denied the incarnation and threw off all moral restraints, it is probable that the ‘sin leading to death’ refers to the Gnostics’ adamant and persistent denial of the truth and to their shameless immorality. This kind of unrepentant sin leads to spiritual death. Another view is that this is sin that results in physical death. It is held that, because a believer continues to sin, God in judgment takes his life [cf. 1 Cor 11:30-32 note: ‘disciplined. As God’s redeemed children we are disciplined—just as a human father disciplines his child—so that we might repent of our sins (cf. 2 Cor 7:10) and grow in grace (2 Pet 3:18; Heb 12:7-11)’]. In either case, ‘sin not leading to death’ (v.17) is of a less serious nature.” But, after all is said and done – God knows the heart of a man… whether or not he was given a fair enough chance… and what to do about it. God is just (fair), and because of that, you have reason both to revere and to take comfort in Him (1 John 1:9-10, Ps 23:4).

Unlike the Ramones song – God does not take His love away from you. If you are not experiencing it, it is because you have rejected it, or believe the lie that it is conditional (or that He doesn’t exist). Believe the Truth. He loves you like nobody else can… and (speaking from experience) He knows how to get your attention… but, ultimately… it’s up to you to accept Him. You are only (Melville’s) Ishmael by choice. You can also be a son by choice. Granted – He already knows what you will choose. When you enter into His kingdom, it will feel like He has taken you out of the slums (consider the current condition of your mind) and is showing you around unimaginable beauty, as if you are a distinguished guest… and you will be. But you will be home. Come as you are, a prodigal son… He is the only one who can get rid of all your garbage and heal all your gangrenous open sores.

IV. He calms the storm. If you ever experience the rest of your life flashing before (phenomenologically speaking) your mind (though you won’t recognize it as that until you live through some of what has flashed) or any other sort of mind-miracle that you can’t control (and it freaks you out…) here are some helpful things to keep in (phenomenologically speaking) mind:

1. God, who is omniscient, omnipotent, and ever-present (including in your mind), can make it stop or at least slow down to something less freakish – but you must ask Him first. This may seem like blackmail if you don’t want to ask God for help (but you do want help), but it really is up to you. No one else you talk to about it can do anything to help you (and may just think you’re crazy… and, in a sense, your experience definitely counts as ‘abnormal’… and they may stick you in the hospital), besides praying for you. This (your salvation) is between you and God. Just remember, when He gives you back a sense of control, do not change your mind about God, like Pharoah kept doing (Ex 7-14), and bring it on yourself all over again (or way worse, Matt 12:43-45) – and do not keep what you have learned to yourself (like the Gnostics do – see “Against Gnosticism” and “Illumination vs. Gnosis”). Ezekiel 3:8-9.
2. If you would like to know more about miracles and other spiritual gifts, see my most recent reply in “Illumination versus Gnosis” – and my “Signs” thread. Gnosis (whether or not it manifests as at least one of you understands it – accompanied by dissociation and delusion) is not God’s will for your mind – and He can make that stop, too (dissociation and delusion)… if you ask. Spiritual gifts and miracles do not have to be disturbing – but they often are at first, especially if you are a stranger to God.
3. If you think Satan is causing your experience (seeing as it is unpleasantly uncontrollable), and that scares you out of your wits, not only because Satan is scary (to those who are not God and are not trusting God, and believe Satan exists), but because you don’t even believe Satan exists, and that you even considered it makes you feel like you’re losing your mind – trust God, and He will give you the weapons of warfare (Eph 6:10-20). Know that if Satan has anything to do with it – it is not without God’s permission (research the testing of Job and tempting of Jesus).
4. If you doubt God exists in order to trust Him – then it looks like you’re stuck with an unexplainable miracle and no way to make it stop. Take a leap of faith, and see what happens. You’ve lost control of your mind – what else do you have to lose? He will catch you.
5. If you’re worried you have the wrong concept of God, and so are trusting in what is not God when you trust in God (and you are understandably afraid of entrusting your mind to what is not God) – He hears you, and will help you come to know Him. It’s all in the Word – crack open your dusty Bible. All of my posts are a result of doing just that. See “Biblical criticism and interpretation” for starters.
6. If this has never happened to you, and you’d like to keep it that way… take a preemptive leap of faith and you’ll avoid the whole mess (He’ll prepare you for any spiritual gift or miracle you experience, rather than springing it on you unexpectedly). I know, it seems like blackmail… but it’s no different than saying “avoid risky behavior and only put good stuff into your body if you value your life.” The storm (see ‘madness as spiritual suffering’ only happens to those who have willfully ingested copious amounts of bad memes. It’s a natural (spiritual) consequence – they practically signed up for it.
7. If this has never happened to you, and you wish it would – you wish God would prove Himself to you (just shy of Armageddon), even if it really freaks you out – ask. And so that you know how to recognize Him when He does show Himself to you – fully research it in His Word. Perhaps He is waiting until you’ve read the entire Bible before He shows you? It is to your advantage. You don’t want to be freaked out.

Remember the key word: ask. Matthew 7:7. Revelation 3:20.

Here’s something kinda interesting on Matthew 7:7, btw…

Ask starts with “A”. Seek starts with “S”. Knock starts with “K”.

Put it all together: A. S. K.

ASK. He’s already right there, anyway.

So we do not face God in this life?

What do you mean by greater? Can he burn me hotter in the afterlife than I’ve ever been burned in this life? Why would I fear him more in the next life, he will have judged me and sent me to heaven or hell. Either way, I won’t fear him anymore, for he will have already taken action.

Do you actually think that God gets off on being all powerful and making his little ants on earth tremble? This sounds like a childish God. I think I really am disgusted at the idea of God right now. He is far too anthropomorphic. I apologize in advance for being much too blunt and insensitive.

Hi, Bane.

Yes, we face God. As His friend or as His enemy (not that an enemy of God wins, ultimately).

I mean “greater” as in – whatever you are afraid of, He can help you overcome it. If you rest in Him, you’ve nothing to fear.

– Bane

Nope. But the alternative – us doing the same thing – that doesn’t make Him happy, either. Have you read the thread I started on worship?

Take care.

Thank you for the response. I have posted on a few of your threads. It is good to finally talk to you. :slight_smile:

Except for HIM!!! So can we rest in him if we have to fear him more than anything we can imagine?

But you do. By “get-off” I’m sarcastically saying that he likes, wants, or desires it. He obviously wants us to fear his awesome power doesn’t he? Throughout the bible God appears to enjoy reminding us of his Oh So Great Power.

I have not, which one? Your threads are so stinking long with so many verses. Can you try to be a little shorter or more concise in what you are saying or proposing? (I’m too lazy and stupid to read every verse. I need to be spoon fed.) :laughing:

Hello Bob. I would not have observed this slight error if I had not been absorbed in this most educating thread, and I hope you will not take offense in this small criticism; Demut does not mean ‘courage’ in German; the word for courage is, simply, Mut. Demut means ‘courage to serve’

As can be seen there are various kinds of courage. But what you have said is correct nontheless; humility, when in place, is courageous. This can be true for men who serve the one God, but also for them who serve lesser divinities, and those who serve human masters.

may your Lord love you for your service,
abhi-pratapta

This thread is funny.

A running dialogue by the obtuse and weak with the ignorant.

Do you know what is funny? There are a number of animals which put on frills to appear larger than they really are when they are fearful - perhaps satyrs do too …

Shalom

Sometimes size is relevant.
Amongst midgets, a short man is tall.

– Bane

If you aren’t deliberately attempting to get His goat, you’ve nothing to fear. Matt 25:31-46.

– Bane

The sort of language you are referring to can be talked about within its historical perspective. It is deserving of its own thread, but right now I do not have time.

I have one more chapter to go before I’m done with Job (for the second time). In Job, God talks a lot about His creative power, in answer to Job’s accusation that his suffering is unjust. How does Job respond? With trust.

God is like the big guy you befriend in highschool, who defends you from bullies. The big guy is your friend – other people fear him… you respect his size and influence… But God is not imperfect, like a human friend.

– Bane

Well… I try to do that when people ask questions after digesting the original post. So many questions are answered by just reading. If you don’t really care – if you won’t even bother researching what I already posted – why even ask a question? If you don’t have the time to make the effort – you have to decide what is really important, and make a sacrifice, if need be.

– Bane

You just haven’t found a good reason to make the effort. For a long time, I never even entered the religion forum, unless a known name popped up, which I knew from other forums. One wonders – why… oh why… are you here?

If you can’t answer that – throw away your computer.

I may have to just not come in here for a while. It takes too long to give a good reply – I have to focus on other things. I told myself I’d be off-line 16 minutes ago…

Take care.

…get God’s goat! HA! :laughing:
I love how you always throw the little “Take care” at the end.
It has been fun chatting with you. You take care too Fish Guy.

That’s what she said…

What’s funny is you are now a part of this “running dialogue” between the obtuse, weak, and ignorant.

So which are you? :lol:

Satyr is observing, feeling, and judging, with no intent to debate.
If He answer your question, than He will.

much love

Jewpiter

On weakness and ignorance – I’m going to post something in the “Lord calls the lowly thread” if you care to check it out.

On weakness and ignorance – I’m going to post something in the “Lord calls the lowly” thread if you care to check it out.