Feminism is Horse-shit

Third wave is horse-shit, and the second wave aspects that tried to deny basic differences between the sexes was too. Women’s Studies is disasterous, like Peace Studies and Black Studies and all that “It’s Political Science without the risk of encountering a contrary point of view” things. That’s the primary problem right there- it’s a problem in all academia, but it’s especially strong in feminism. Feminists, moreso than any other, make bank on the declaration that any idea they don’t like is evil and doesn’t deserve to be examined. This allows the more foolish things they come up with to go unchallenged and metastisize. So when a feminist decides that gender differences are all in our minds, or all sex is rape, or things like that, there’s nobody around to laugh. Now, it may be respectfully challenged, in that way that gives credence to a view by disagreeing with respect and care, but there is nobody around to laugh.

Erik, this is a wrong place to seek feminists to head-bash with (if that’s what you’re doing). Most feminists CAN’T STAND their ideas being criticized like all others, they just like discussing them in their own echo chamber with other feminists. They resent actual equality as is made obvious even by legal acts such as affirmative action. Feminist forums will just delete any responses that refute their ridiculous extremist dogma. That’s why they don’t come to neutral forums, where their ideas are allowed to be criticized just like everybody else’s, where equality reigns. So your best shot is a YouTube video, although some major feminist channels, like feministfrequency, disable comments. It is a feat quite common in channels that spread bullshit. Many Christian channels do it too coincidentally :laughing:

YouTube is a shithole most of the time though if you’re looking for any serious discussions on the subject. You’ll mostly just be met with arguments of the type: ‘Feminism is the radical notion that females are human beings’ and fallacies, such as the fallacy of equivocation and strawman: ‘If you disagree with feminism then you disagree with females having the right to vote too, since us feminists fought for it’ (equivocating first-wave feminism with modern, third-wave and claiming you’re therefore attacking the first-wave feminism)

The mere fact that it’s so hard to find a feminist you can engage in a sincere, serious debate without censorship alone tells you something about their ideology. Also the fact that they violently interrupt and prevent MRA gatherings. These people aren’t interested in learning facts, debating, hearing the opposite viewpoint and arriving at some sort of a truth like most of us are, no, they are only interested in advancing their own agenda. What’s even sadder are the desperate manginas who suck up to feminists and act as their puppets to try and get laid, despicable.

Cute but wrong. Can females get drafted? Do males have the same rights in court? What about affirmative action, where females are preferred over males literally only because they are females. I mean, there are countless examples. Open your eyes. They’re bigots trying to conceal their bigotry.

I actually tried to send some information to feminist sites about sexual dynamics and hierarchies, point out that if these changed, they would be less oppressed. They LOVED my abortion arguments though LOL. They’re hypocrites. And the analogy to what religion websites do is a perfect analogy.

To be fair, the National Organization of Women only employs about 25 people.

Can men? i assure you, given the success of enlisted women in the armed forces, then if the draft were ever re-instituted, women would not be exempt.

Legally speaking, of course they do.

What about it? Affirmative action doesn’t necessarily follow from feminism. The desire to diversify a workforce or student body in order to include more girls and women might, but that’s not really the same thing as actual affirmative action, which is slowly going the way of the buffalo anyhow. Fact is, if you have two equally qualified candidates, one male and one female, then at that point it’s basically up to the employer’s whims which of the two gets the position. If they want the taller of the two, or the one with blue eyes or the cool tattoo, then that’s really their prerogative, not affirmative action. Sometimes the handsome young man gets the job rather than the elderly woman, sometimes the one with the vagina gets it over the one with the penis. So it goes.

Some of them are, sure. Certainly, some of them are even bigots by their own definition of the term, but that’s a kind of hypocrisy not at all unique to feminism. In any case, that there are bigoted feminists does not mean feminism is itself bigoted.

Yes, and the result is a greater unequality than before because this group has got more power. Feminism as an egalitarianistic group is like communism, socialism, thus: egalitarianism . They all use equaliy as an excuse to get power. Feminism as an unegalitarianistic group is like fascism. Both use unequality and have less success than the egalitarianistic groups. The egalitarianistic groups have much more success because they lie much more. Lies, hypocrisies, victimology or victimism are the best and safest tools or means in order to get and to keep success and power.

uglypeoplefucking (awesome name, btw :smiley: ), yeah my bad, legally in most countries they do have equal rights, but we all know that equality isn’t the actual state of affairs in practice. Paternity fraud anyone? Men can get drafted in much more countries than women. Affirmative action doesn’t necessarily follow from feminism, but hardcore leftists like many feminists are often its proponents. And when there are as much bigots in a movement as in a feminist movement then yes, I’d venture to say they are, for the most part, a bigoted movement, as is masculinism. That doesn’t mean there aren’t a few people in those movements who aren’t bigoted, but I personally don’t think the non-bigots are a majority. In the first-wave feminism maybe, but later on? Nah.

I mean, we’re talking about a movement that claims to be about gender equality, yet names itself after 1 out of the 2 genders, excluding the other, making the other feel alienated from the movement or even targeted by it. Masculinism and feminism are both guilty of that, though at least some masculinists admit they’re about male superiority, it’s bigoted but at least honest, whereas feminists will try to trick you into believing they fight for gender equality, when all their actions tell otherwise. It’s kind of like if there was a movement named whiteism/blackism (white and black nationalism contracted) that claimed to be about racial equality… who the fuck do they think they’re fooling?

I agree with Erik. I am fine with men and women being equal under the law and being granted equal opportunities to realize their potential. That’s what I think equality should be about.

Ha! Not trying to bash heads, but many feminists will prob. interpret it that way. Blurry spazzed out on me for an older feminism thread I created. I mean, yeah, sometimes I can be provocative, puerilely so. But that older feminism thread was actually mature and legitimate, yet the reactions were melodramatic.

And yes, it’s ridiculous how feminists respond to MGTOW/MRA gatherings. I’ve never seen such rage, bitterness, and invective…And the inanities that spew out of their mouths, while they are protesting, e.g., that MRA’s support incest, hate their mothers, etc — bewilder me. It just goes to show that they aren’t about equality, but like you said, just trying to push an agenda, a rather worrisome one at that.

I don’t support feminism, but I do support equality. So many people find that confusing, but it’s so simple. If they’re for equality they need to be for equality, not cherry picking it to gain power for themselves. They either stand with us for equality or against it. Because the measure of equality is not one, it’s many or all.

Yeah, but don’t forget it’s feminism that is responsible for the fact women serve at all. If you resent inequality between men and women in terms of military service, then you should recognize feminism is on your side, at least in that particular regard. i’m not really defending feminists themselves - you can call that as you see it, for all i care - but i am defending at least the basics of popular feminist philosophy - general equality of rights and entitlements between the sexes, the attempt to think and act outside of traditional gender roles, the notion that women can work for money and do many of the things that men do, and do them just as well. i also knowledge the historic grievances women may hold against men.

i’m a man and i don’t feel alienated from feminism - as i just said, i think as a philosophy or whatever it has certain really significant things going for it. But more generally, i think men feel targeted by feminism because it threatens the power and control that they naturally and reflexively, yet unjustly, seek to claim over women.

If the thrust of your argument against feminism is that individual feminists don’t live up to their own professed ideals, then sure i can certainly cede that point, but i would also ask: What -ism can you think of where all the believers DO live up to their own ideals in practice?

Everybody seeks power and control, feminism is a prime example of a power-seeking movement. It is precisely the modern feminists who seek power and control unjustly, “empowerment of women”. On the other hand, some of us are prepared to give everybody equal chances to seek and acquire power and control and I don’t see anything unjust with that.

Generally, people identifying as conservative/liberal will espouse the corresponding views they claim they do.

That’s the exact problem, modern feminists try to convince us they are for equality when everybody with half a brain can notice they’re just a bigoted bunch trying to conceal their bigotry under “equality” while undermining and condemning men in society for almost everything they do or don’t do. As I said, a movement named whiteism claiming to be about equality and fighting exclusively for the rights of white people and violently interrupting meetings of other race’s movements wouldn’t fool anybody, nor will feminism.

Feminist philosophy now isn’t the same thing as feminist philosophy 100 years ago. These are beginning to sound like some YouTube feminist propaganda arguments I specifically mentioned in my earlier post. Thinking outside of tradition for the sake of thinking outside of tradition is not something I support either. Modern feminists already have all those things you’re talking about. Know who doesn’t have them? Women in the middle east. It’s interesting how so many liberal, modern feminists will defend Islam which holds them (Western women) to be nothing more than whores to be raped without consequences in their religion. Why? Because modern feminists are cowards. They go where there is least resistance, which means Western men who respect their freedom of speech and don’t threaten them with violence. There has been a lot of time since I’ve seen a real feminist, a feminist with an actual valid cause I’d support. It’s a Muslim girl who bravely fought for her rights in a fundamentalist religious environment. Needless to say, she got murdered. I feel ashamed that I forgot her name but remember the names of some worthless, Western feminists.

i don’t think most people conceive of feminism the way feminist academics assuming labels like “second wave” or “third wave” do, i think they conceive of it with regards to the sorts of ideals i listed - precisely the sorts of ideals held by middle eastern women doing things like risking their lives for the opportunity to get an education or drive a car.

i suppose radical feminism in the US may be radically bigoted, i’ve never payed it much attention, but i wouldn’t be surprised - that’s the nature of radical philosophies when put into practice.

Should traditions be exempt from critical scrutiny?

That hasn't been my perception at all.  My perception has been that 'women should be allowed to drive a car and vote' is just percieved (in the west anyway) as an absence of chauvanism.  When people say 'feminism' they mean the crazy extreme stuff we're all mostly tired of hearing about, or whining about things like a woman's shirt getting wet in an action movie.

Without feminists…we could never have the satisfaction of banging a feminist chick.

Think about it guys.

Yes, of course, they are.

Yes, although I know merely few religion websites. I seldom read websites, and I never joined a webforum or anything else before I joined ILP. So ILP was the first one I joined. 8. March 2014. So today is my first ILP anniversary! :occasion-balloons:

Well i can’t argue with your perception, but i can point out the likelihood of it’s being heavily influenced by your personal circumstances. Given that you are an academic and a philosopher who reads extensively on these topics, it would follow that you have significantly more exposure to the crackpot pundits. i doubt most people know anything about Mary Daly, for instance.

i know where you’re coming from on the wet t-shirt thing, but i’m guessing that kind of whining will fade out with time. In spite of feminism, we’re getting pretty thoroughly acculturated to that sort of thing in the west, and i don’t think younger generations of girls and women resonate with the idea that liking boobs makes a man a sexist pig. i could be wrong.

Yeah but they’re mostly dykes anyway. They don’t know how to please a man.

That’s what i tell myself.

Well, it’s not influenced by my personal circumstances, it IS my personal circumstances, so yeah.

I’m thinking more about other people’s lack of exposure. My perception of people who aren’t academics is that they consider “Women should be able to vote” as just normal, not feminism, and they reserve the term ‘feminism’ for stranger ideas that most wouldn’t agree with. Could be wrong!

No, you aren’t wrong except to view it as a linear progression. That lack of concern with trivial expressions of male sexual interest has come, gone, come again, gone again, and now we exist with both going on at once. If I had to make a prediction of a sustained future trend, it would be a push for third wave feminism to become irrelevant under a fresh wave of pseudoscience asserting that the differences between men and women don’t exist in the first place.

i was thinking the notion that there’s no difference was an idea that is also fading - but i guess there’s the whole “gender is solely a construction with no basis in biology” which is kind of close to that and is currently in fashion, so who knows . . .

It WAS fading, it’s a notion from the second wave. But trannies and queer theory and all that are bringing it back. So for example you have “The Vagina Monologues” being called bigoted/sexist because it implies that women have vaginas, and Non-mono-Sexual replacing “Bisexual” because bisexual implies that there are two genders, which is seen as some flavor of bigotry as well.