For the people, by the people

I’ve had this thought for the last couple of weeks, and I want to develop it more.

The modus operandi of our political leader selection process is not “by the people, for the people” but rather, a small number of sales pitches finding a market and confusing the result with the former. My intuition is that the result must be polarization, with the following logic:

  1. World views are no different than products, in that there are those who manufacture them, those who sell and distribute them, and those who consume them.

  2. There are a very small group of people who will manufacture or produce world views and put them up for sale.

  3. The market for world views should act like any other product market, with dominate players re-selling you into their ecosystem.

  4. Each year, the established leaders along with new entrants within each party make new sales pitches to gauge what features to add/remove from their product, and they call this the “people’s choice” within the party. I think more accurately this is the peoples product selection, but not their voice.

  5. So long as ideas are sold within the packaging of a brand, brand loyalty will prevail over both product quality and people’s voices in the short term, leading to false signals of what the people want.

  6. In defending their market share, brands will always have an us vs. them mentality where polarization, otherwise known as brand loyalty, is to their benefit making it difficult for users to defect, with the result being Apple vs. Google, Ford vs. Chevy, Republican vs. Democrat, Verizon vs. T-Mobile.

Hit me with your objections, critiques, or augmentations of this idea!

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This is a well thought out post.

It resonates with a concept I developed in my mind some time ago, the marketplace of ideas.

Is the marketplae of ideas a post you made? I couldn’t find it on your profile.

I was working on an essay but never posted it here.

I will try to sum up my ideas here and see if they resonate with your meaning in the OP.

The essay would read more or less as follows:

What are we?

What are we doing here?

What are we thinking?

How are we thinking what we are thinking?

Why are we thinking what we are thinking?

Our ideals, the ideas we espouse and cherish and defend even under the the risk of dying in their name, whence came such ideas? From heaven? Ex nihilo? Were they ingrained in our heads ab ovo? Or have we slowly learned to believe in such ideas in such a way that they seem obvious to us, as unquestionable facts or truisms, and we can’t see how others don’t share our enthusiasm in defending or proposing them?

Maybe, maybe, long before we even understand what an idea is we are already convinced about the facticity of a lot of them? Isn’t a fact something that eludes demonstration, something which doesn’t need to be demonstrated, being self-evident?

And throughout such process, do we ever really think about whateve we happen to be thinking? Or are all our thoughts automatic and automated, while our words and slogans are no more substantial or meaningful than the utterings of a parrot, than sheer duckspeak? When a slogan has been ingrained in our brain so that we utter it without any reference to circumstances, as if it’s something that’s magically expected to generate results, effects, even without never doing anything more than give the utterer a sense of satisfaction in his righteousness, how can we detect whence came such a collection of empty words, when all we care about them is the egoistic pleasure they bring us, the pleasure of being right, of being in the right?

Let’s look deeper, there’s something to be excavated here.

What are we then? Creatures who think, who have ideas in their minds, who speak and whose words in one or another represent an utterance of such ideas as ingrained in our brains.

That was easy, but what are we doing here? I don’t mean doing here in the biological sphere, where we’re obviously basically surviving. I mean doing here in the realm of the human, in the realm of the human spirit, in the realm of thought? In the world of ideas, which is not something that exists fluctuating in the ether, like Plato would have it, but something belonging to the realm of the human, the collection of ideas, thoughts, ideals, beliefs, shared by men, and necessarily internalized and reflected in a peculiar manner in each and every individualized mind?

In this realm the most essential question seems then: what are we thinking? Are we thinking our ideas or are we just borrowing ideas from others, imitating others’ ideas and words, just parroting our way through life? Even worse still: can we have ideas of our own? Can we have a peculiar, particular, worldview? Aren’t such limited in number, or can they really be as varied as the number of people on earth? This type of questions are what leads to what I call deep thinking. Not superficial analysis of things expressed via slogans and clichés, but a capacity, developed through time and hard labor, to look both at and through things. An ability to understand both the individual and the general context within which a human life is staged. Such is much easier to imagine than to attain. Why? Because we are born and grow up in an environment of ready-made ideas, an environment in which the free expression and the search for real freedom of thought are not merely difficult, but almost chimerical. Such an environment could be called in many different ways. An efficient way to describe it is what I call the marketplace of ideas.

Why choose marketplace instead of some other term? Because we Earthlings, at least almost all of us Earthlings, were born and raised in a capitalist milieu.And capitalism has a characteristic that many have observed in the past, but few have been able to fully dissect, as it is too cruel to fully accept: everything in this system is a commodity. Including people themselves. Including their feelings, wants, needs, desires, and ideas. Yes, my friend, your most intimate desires, those secret fantasies you’ve never shared with anyone in your life, are for sale somewhere, for you or anyone else to buy. All the ideas and ideals you cherish most are on display somewhere, in various versions— economy version, deluxe version— for those willing to pay less or more for the more compact or more complete version.

Couldn’t this lead us to some very discouraging conclusions about society, the world, and ourselves? Are we just a commodity, are all our ideas for sale? Not necessarily. We don’t need to be completely discouraged by this; what we need to understand is how the economic system that governs our lives works. We have to open our eyes to the logic of capitalism because capitalism is everywhere around us and in everything we do. It’s not enough to simply retreat into our own little world. After all, this little world is for sale for us to buy, and often only becomes possible thanks to the possibilities of capitalism. In other words, even thinking for yourself is a commodity. That’s how the system works. There’s no point demonizing it; we must first understand it.

Why do some of us insist on rejecting capitalism and embracing a passionate defense of the alternative, the socialist ideology? Certainly because, for these people, capitalism appears to be extremely dehumanizing. They cling to an ideology that, while fanciful, allows them to imagine a humanity living under conditions in which each person is an end in themselves, not a mere object to be bought and sold. But the fact is that, if such an ideology appears to be something more dignifying than the crudity of capitalism, where those who have more can do more and those who have less can do nothing, it continues to be defended within capitalist logic. In other words, does this mean that being a socialist is also a capitalist luxury? Well, this is the curious side of things, perhaps even the most disturbing: capitalism not only encourages those who defend and justify it, writing books to emphasize how infinitely more advantageous the free-market economy is than the one planned by the state, but the system also encourages, unites, and dominates those who seek to oppose it!

How is this done, how is it possible? Simply by ensuring that all deniers, all detractors, all nonconformists remain solely in the theoretical realm, in the realm of abstraction, never allowing their ideologies to be more than coping mechanisms, selling and shaping them in a way that seems as sincere and challenging as possible, but never more than that: theories. “Well, I imagine a better world, you know? A world without unnecessary pressures, without inequalities, without injustice, without wealth concentration, etc.” “But is such a world possible?” “Well, what would become of us without dreams, etc.” This is how the marketplace of ideas displays, for sale to whoever wants to buy, every kind of ideal that not only promises to reform and revolutionize the world, but even destroy it completely, as long as, of course, everything remains in the realm of ideas. In the world of ideas, and here we can bring Plato into the conversation, because just like for him, everything comes down to words anyway, words thrown mindlessly out of the mouth, while in essence nothing changes, the system is the same and continues to govern the lives of those who seem to oppose it the most!

The crucial thing is to always make people believe they have a choice, that they have multiple choices. But the choices essentially boil down to two things: conform to the system as it is or dream of a change that never comes, only in the imagination. Yet, many, the majority, remain so integrated into the system’s way of thinking that they continue to believe blindly, until death, in the ideal the system sold them. This is why it’s impossible to argue with a socialist, for example, who continues to believe fervently in their ideal and feel different from everyone else even when their life is circumscribed, in every detail, by capitalist logic. Work, keep the system running in any way possible, generate dividends in some way, however minimal, and, after 30 or 35 years, retire and die. Next!

It seems like a very crude perspective, and it is. Now, to conclude, we must bring into the analysis the human factor, the selfish factor. Are people forced to participate in this system completely against their will, to their total detriment, or do they at some point realize what they’re doing and continue participating because they derive some advantage from the whole situation? Are we all helpless victims here? I’ve said before, and I’ll say it again, that I will never see human beings as mere victims. No, it’s obvious that, although the system is powerful and its influence is felt from a very young age, there is an element of participation and voluntariness, and there is the awareness that we are here, within the process, participating in it, benefiting from it. So, the ideals sold in the marketplace of ideas are bought willingly by people, selfishly, and if a would-be socialist seems too resigned to living trapped in the world of capital when everything in him seems to want to fight for a better world, it’s because his natural selfishness finds satisfaction in this situation. In other words: achieving a better world can be a lot of work. Sitting on the couch thinking about it is more than enough, and, contrary to the logic of the capitalist market, it costs almost nothing.

This is it, more or less, though it can be developed further and better. I do think it has a strong resonance with your main idea in the OP.

Most of the political idealisms, voiced opinions, and perceptions we see are from the extremely wealthy because they have captivated all of society with their money owning the internet, social media, news publications, corporate think tanks, and college intellectual circles. We exist in a digital communication global prison that they control from the top down very thoroughly.

There are no authentic spontaneous political grass roots movements left anymore, just a bunch of strings and puppets. They even have puppets on strings these days pretending not to be puppets, but if you follow all the money back to their origins you just know.

What the elites cannot stand and hate the most are individuals with critical thinking skills that are out of their realm of control that cannot be bought which is why they’re constantly trying to suppress things like free speech. :clown_face:

I really appreciate this insight, because it is true - you need a capitalist mentality to sell your idiology to, and a free market to do so to find your buyers. Really, a communist country is not a lot different than a single conglomerate business.

I’m not so sure about this idea. There are clearly examples of countries pushing these ideas far beyond just theories and into the realm of practice, unless I’m not fully grasping what you’re getting at here.

I can definitely see here the direct connection to my piece, that people are choosing something which is being sold to them, and because it’s both easier than manufacturing something themselves, and they feel they are getting a benefit from it.

If I were to intertwine your marketplace of ideas into what I wrote, it seems that the marketplace is competitive and there are established, mature products on the market which most people are more than ready to buy, but for new entrants into the market it can be really difficult. Yes?

You’re not claiming credit for that, are you?

I just have one thing to say.

Accept no knock offs that cost more than the original, which is free. If it’s moving in mysterious ways, and even better than the real thing…it’s probably CGI.

Nope, someone might have come to a similar view before me, it’s too powerful a concept to have been invented by yours truly in an hour of leisure.

The article you mentioned is interesting btw.

And how are you to be sure the original is not just another “knock off”?

It’s funny how easily marketplaces become monopolies and the eventual outlawing or elimination of the competition.

“We cannot have narratives that we cannot control or profit off of, we must control all the narrative ourselves. All of the profit should belong to us too.”

:clown_face:

Even worse than that, communism only functions within an authoritarian and totalitarian framework, so the ideas accepted and defended by the people are necessarily those sanctioned by the state, but the state acts as a monolithic bloc that cannot be questioned. If in capitalism we have, at least, the freedom to buy into the ideas we embrace, which we consider our own, in communism we don’t even have that—each person’s thoughts become a reflection of their neighbor’s, and theirs is nothing more than a reflection of the official theory. In other words, even though in capitalism everything is summarized and subsumed by market logic, it is still preferable to the mechanized and unquestionable thinking of communism. I think the essential difference is that we can reach a level of consciousness that allows us to question capitalism itself, and if we agree to continue playing the game, we do so with a clear conscience. In the other system, we lack this freedom; the very act of questioning becomes an impossibility.

Which countries are you referring to? Communist countries? There are very few of these nowadays. What I meant is that the ones who theorize about the downfall and the subsequent overcoming of capitalism do so within a capitalist milieu which profits of their own apparent rebellion.

Capitalism is vast enough that everything within it becomes a commodity, including the very theorizing that seeks to demonize and overcome the system. This is exemplified, for example, when an influencer focusing on communism gains thousands or millions of followers and thus generates traffic and revenue for a social network that subsists within the logic of the market, or when a writer becomes famous advocating a frugal life, far from the attachments of capitalist society—this person ends up generating and sustaining an entire market created around their ideas.

Capitalism’s most radical opponents are not satisfied with mere theorizing; they believe in a working-class seizure of power that will completely subvert the system’s logic and ultimately annihilate it. But as long as these workers and idealists continue to merely discuss revolution, capitalism continues to parasitize all their actions that indirectly lead to the legitimization of the system (what you deny, you elevate to the level of existence, you endorse and justify).

Yes, and that’s because it’s comforting to know that you’ve arrived at an idea voluntarily, that you’ve found the light, so to speak, and the capitalist system operates on this perspective, on individual initiative. But how many people do you know who truly have their own ideas, absolutely original, that don’t fit into any imaginable mold? Here on this forum, you might find some who go more or less against the grain of everything that’s accepted out there, but they’re few. In general, we all buy into a certain narrative and spend a good deal of time defending and subsuming ourselves to it. The act of truly breaking free from this mold is painful and brings with it a heavy sense of loneliness and alienation, something few of us can bear.

Yes, every market is competitive, and the key thing to consider is that, for the market, all ideas are equal. Veganism vs. carnism, socialism vs. capitalism, left vs. right, Christians vs. atheists, white supremacists vs. multiculturalists—all of this comes down to who has the greatest power to attract the masses, and the system is comprehensive enough to create a specific market niche for each side. Regardless, which side you choose, you’re in the market, supporting it, and it’s taking advantage of you, even if you don’t realize it.

One thing about factory work or any sort of repetitive work that doesn’t require full concentration once you have mastered it…it leaves one plenty of time to think. … About things like how to appear stupid/broken so not much is expected of you. That’s 80% of people. Work smarter, not harder.

…areeeee …you saying it’s knock offs all the way down?

Wouldn’t it be funny if the ancients named the stars, including the wandering ones (planets), after one person rather than many people because they were “advanced” civilizations that spread out so much because they didn’t even want to be anywhere near each other, so they picked their own little dot in the sky? I wonder who will be the last (wo)man standing on this pale blue one?

I mean, if it went the way all the other ones went, if they actually had gone that way. Granted there are whole constellations … and wouldn’t it be funny if there was actual communication between those particular dots/constellations? And wouldn’t it be funny if there was actually something to the old polytheistic narratives?

I’d watch that movie.

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@Ichthus77

I think you’re thinking of the remake of BattleStar Galactica (T.V. series) of the early 2000s, similar premise. :clown_face:

no, I don’t think so.

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So you’re an egoist, are you? Do you like to think of yourself as a parasite?

…just curious.

Which of us can’t be described as a parasite, in one way or another? :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

I just want to call bullshit forever, is all.

(aka bullshit)

Market rate currency for your thoughts?

I think your phrasing makes most of what you write very difficult to understand.