For those who believe Might is Right (not values)… better buckle up; the guard is changing.
“GOOGLE will join Microsoft and Yahoo! in helping China, the world’s biggest censor, in blocking access to websites containing politically sensitive material.”
smh.com.au/articles/2006/01/25/1 … 65147.html
Are you talking about -in- China?
Hey Gobbo, i’ve been meaning to ask, what happened to the monkey?! and secondly, what’s that on the avatar? A cat or dog painting something? 
(oh and sorry for interrupting the flow of the thread)
I believe he is talking about in China.
First of all its good business sense for Google.
Secondly Google is a very progressive company, there was no other bargaining it was this or nothing, and I believe for the Chinese people this is better than nothing. The only things that are banned are things China decides to ban, which leaves massive opportunity for general self education and information for those with connections using one of the best search tools ( from a Chinese citizen perspective its search for what you are looking for using google or with a much less apt search engine, both of which are censored. Your more likely to find better information with google). Such permeating education although slow surely leads towards a better chance of freedom and democracy
It’s a money painting 
It’s always a monkey
LOL… My internet connection was cut after posting that I wish I was that important. It would be exciting. 
NO ITS NOT ONLY ABOUT CHINA: ITS EFFECTS WILL RIPPLE OUT TO US ALL.
Once China has the economic clout it’s expected to have by 2020 it can/will be able to simply say it will only do business with companies that don’t trade with Taiwan, don’t support Tibet, allow Falon Gong or criticise China etc.
From there, they can simply hold reverse auctions among countries and companies then award their contracts to countries/companies based on “friendliness” toward China (as they call it).
This is already happening now; companies that criticise the Chinese government (or don’t help China in their drive to be the most powerful economy in the world), simply find they don’t get contracts. This is not rocket science. In the end many westerners will be asked: Do you want a job, or the right to criticise Chinas policies? Make up your mind because you can only have one: Might = Right.
I mentioned previously, that China said it would only buy Airbuses so long as the British wing manufacturer was closed and a new factory was built in China. Airbus agreed. Goodbye to British jobs and intellectual capital. There will be many more of these to come.
This is not related to censorship per se but it shows we are more than willing to sell the silver to make a sale. So what chance does freedom of speech – or any other value – have?
Its a good point and it would take united international will to oppose it, however:
china economy grows because it is opening to the world, the more it opens the more freedom and information permeates. china needs investment and capital, it already has the workforce. if it does not continue to open it will scare away investment. china needs the investment it cannot invest its own wealth if cut off from the world, because its goverment wealth is generated through trade with the world.
what I mean is china cannot have it both ways if it wants to grow to the projected economic giant status this inevitably means high trade, and more market openness, which i think leads to freedom and information permeation.
personally i think as china becomes wealthier it will slide toward more freedom, higher education, more democracy. If the goverment somehow manages to achieve growth without this there is a great problem.
my concern grows for russia,
which seems to be growing ever more paranoid, closing its markets steeling from the privite sector, scaring away investment, fixing elections, concentrating power, reducing free press to virtually nil, increasing propaganda, frightened at losing its sphere of influnence to the EU and Asian economies, and popular uprisings in eastern europe. fighting an unwinnable war in chechnya
its two power trips are its ancient hazerdous nuclear warheads, and its ability to cut the energy supplies(such as to the ukraine at the time of a bad cold snap).
putin’s put it into reverse [ no im not some old russian distrusting commie hating coldwar biter twisted individual, I just feel strongly about economic and democratic development]
I actually iquite like the russian people, Ive gotten drunk with a few, great fun, theyve got some crafty tricks to make u feel a light weight on the vodka.
Iran pales in comparrison, and im tired of the flogging that same islamic scare mongering tactic. quite frankly im beginging to empathise with the iranians (not the crazy talk about isreal, but their 10 years from a nuclear weapon of that range anyway, and targeted airstrikes from the Us or isreal would neutralise the threat before iranian scientists stopped getting uranium and iranium mixed up. everybody in the region has it in for the iranians and now the world is jumping on the band wagon, it only makes their government have to lean even more to the right, because they are at least partly democratically elected.
oops a bit of a rant (OK! major contributing portion! )
sorry I digress
please continue
yes I agree be wary of china’s censorship…
Dear km2,
See Thirst’s recent posts for the important of the distinction between ‘might is right’ and ‘might makes right’.
Secondly, free speech has never existed and will never exist. The ‘right’ to freedom of speech is a contradiction in terms. One has the ‘right’ to say whatever it is that one can say. No more, no less.
I have no problems with Google helping China to police the internet. The problem in places like Australia, the UK, the US, western Europe is that the internet grew so fast that any question of trying to police it is futile. We simply couldn’t do it because it’s already gotten beyond a given point. But I do think that the Internet should be policed - for the exact same reasons that I think that messageboards should have moderators. Imagine what ILP would be like if there was no-one to legislate or execute. It’d be crap. It’d be full of wankers going on and on and on about 1 scene from the Matrix or from LOTR that was ‘the most amazing thing ever’…
Check out bbc.co.uk/606/
This is the BBC’s online discussion forum, principally for sports chat. It is essentially unmoderated in that unless a post is brought to the attention of the staff they do nothing to limit the number or nature of posts. It has repeatedly had mass technical difficulties due to being swamped with idiots and is eventually having to resort to placing limits on posting. This is a form of censorship, but a perfectly just one.
My point is that censorship and control don’t necessarily lead to totalitarianism. Control, if exercised properly, becomes vital.