Free Power Forever!?

There is a thing called the Motionless Electromagnetic Generator. tminion what are all those big words and fancy symbols he put where he was supposed to write how it works?

the summary is that it harvests the zero point field. there is a huge mass of messenger particles, photons, gluons flying in every little bit of space. there is enough energy in any cubic meter to boil all of the oceans in the world. it claims to have produced 100 times as much energy as was put into it, and it claims that other independent researchers have also confirmed postive outcomes.

he writes about the current status of the project at length. hes upset with how energy companies have discouraged (destroyed) the whole idea of getting energy from this kind of magic, self-renewable thing (‘broken symmetry[between output and input]’).

he has something extremely interesting to say about the evil things that i hate about corporations. people on the ‘third level’ from the top are at a place where a decent piece of impressive work for the company can gain them a promotion to a place where they wont have to worry anymore. they become extremely self serving and this is where all of the evil is specifically perpetrated, with nameless upstarts.

imagine being the main stockholder of exxon. you sit at the huge conference table and decide with your fellow gods that we will not be pursuing new self-renewable technologies because we want money.anybody experience anything like this first hand?

how about perpetual motion machines? what does credible science have to say about that? why is it so discredited? does anybody care about this? its like the most magnificent gift from god in the nick of time, it doesnt make sense that people wouldnt listen to these people, including nicola tesla, if he had valid evidence. so what does anybody know about it?

This is ridiculous, there are so many flaws in this guys thinking. I love it when people like this think they have come up with a way of creating ‘free’ energy.

Lets start with a couple of examples.

In his heat-pump analogy:

This free environmental energy that he talks about is basically the ambient temperature. Say the room temperature at the moment is 20 degrees C. If the heat pump is to raise that temperature to 40 degrees C, that requires a certain amount of energy. Therefore, if the heat pump is 50% efficient, that means that the energy put into the heat pump must be twice that of the energy needed to raise the temperature by 20 degrees. This COR rubbish that he talks about is bullshit. The energy input from the external atmosphere that he talks about is simply a background energy that does no useful work in actually raising the temperature. Its basically a ground floor energy.

This is the same for the zero point field case. It is a groud floor energy and can’t actually contribute any energy to any states above this ground floor energy.

The reason he has recieved no attention to develop such an idea is because it is a stupid idea.

how can you explain the results he got?

do you hear him talk about how current ideas about the ‘ground state’ arent right. they just assume that that massive field of photons that is undetectable all around us, enough to boil all of the oceans, the current rules just assume that that energy is unable to be tapped.

why cant it be? there is a huge mass of energy, its just moving in different directions. its regular old photons and gluons. there is no absolute zero ground state because these particles are constantly transfering energy from some unknown distant source into whatever atom you are trying to freeze.

why do you know that so surely that this guy is ‘stupid’? its the same messenger paticles that have real mass and really have energy shooting them right into your face now. why cant we catch them and harness them with a crazy new magnetic field phenomenon? he talks about the process as if it is the same kind of process that natural elecricity comes from.

why are you so certain that the zero point field can not be harnessed?

Will reply a bit more in depth later if I have the time. I will say, however that:

I didn’t say he was stupid, only his idea with stupid.

What results? Anyone can claim to have constructed a perpetual motion machine, but all of these machines tested so far have been proven to be frauds. Who are these ‘independent’ researchers that have confirmed his idea? In fact, I have just completed a perpetual motion machine made out of paper clips using the zero point field on my desk. Free energy for all!

Think about it this way, using the heat pump/temperature analogy this guy loves. If you want to change the temperature above ambient you need to supply energy, agree? What this guy is claiming is that the ambient temperature can actually supply energy to raise the temperature above ambient. It doesn’t make any sense.

In the same way with the zero point field, how can the ambient energy of the universe be used to increase the energy above ambient?

Future man et-al,

Agreement on the supression of new technologies by those with heavy investment in the old… We can only hope they are trying to develop some of the said technologies themselves in secret. Otherwise we’re in for some literally ‘dark’ times ahead. :sunglasses:

What about that method to harvest energy from the pressure on two plates placed very close together (stopping some wavelengths/energetic particles from slipping inbetween - creating an inward pressure on the plates from the partial vaccuum) Though I think to work on a useful level you’d need perfectly rigid plates the size of cities anchored in space or something…

Whatever happens, we’re really going to need better energy sources than the dinosaur versions we currently have, otherwise we’re going to be in serious trouble, possibly within our own lifetimes. :cry:

In general - apply this rule to any new claims by scientists in this field:

“[size=150]If it’s too good to be true… It isn’t true.[/size]”

NoelyG wrote:

I think it’s entirely possible if you come up with the ability to harvest ambient energy from a large volume of space and focus it into a smaller volume… It’s a balance between the total energy harvested and that lost in it’s ‘transportation’… That would be the trick. We must keep an open mind about these things, and throw money away now on seemingly ‘loony’ research, otherwise we may inadvertantly throw away vital ideas… We must have… Dare I say it…‘Faith’. :wink:

yeah noely youre begging a question or two and assuming that this guy and his associates are liars/idiots. there is an extremely large amount of energy in all of space.

the fact that its presence is required for the formation of atoms or the propagation of light doesnt mean that it cant be used for energy. i dont see what one has to do with the other.

its regular photons, lots of them. right there in front of you. the only reason why you dont melt and explode right now under the immense pressure is because each fundamental praticle is exploding into your atoms in a different direction and their motion cancels out on large scales. they still have energy, you just dont notice because youre too big.

well the zero point field wouldnt be used to cause the ambient energy to rise, it would be used to cause some machine’s energy to rise. youre asking ‘how can the zero point field be used to increase the energy of the zero point field?’ it cant, youre right, but thats not what anybody would use it for.

youre letting your preconceptions cloud your judgement of this. you havent said anything about the guys invention, only that “all” machines of this kind are frauds. i want to know how you know that.

its not even a perpetual motion machine anymore than a windmill is. its putting a sail where one has not been before. why wont that work.

nobody denies that there is a lot of energy in a cubic meter. the problem is to harness it using less energy.

a lightbulb (at least, old ones) transform 2% of the enrgy in light and the rest in heat. now, if build a device that harnesses the energy in a cubic meter (let’s say all of it) but uses twice the energy there, is it really useful?

i dont think the guy would have spent any time creating a website for such a crappy waste of machinery. he claims that once the ball gets rolling, it can sail in there just fine, producing more than it requires input.

why is this impossible?

peole created websites for all the sutpid things human mind can think of, so that is not an argument.

i am not an expert in these matters, so my thinking could be flawed. the way i see things, a machinery needs energy in order to operate and in order to produce whatever it is that it produces. like the heat pump above: the heat pump uses half the enrgy input in order to operate (like some kind of overhead) and halp to heat the room, hence its efficency of 50%.

a perpetuum mobile is a machinery that once set in motion, does not stop. this means that it either manages to conservate all the energy (no overhead and all output is also input) or it takes its energy from another source.

i believe to be common sense that energy cannot be “created”. machines only “convert” energy, like a dam that converts gravitanion into electricity or a windmill that converts cinetic energy of the wind in some other kind of energy. i don’t know exactly what this guy’s machine does but i can’t believe the he created a functional prototype and everyone ignored him. he could take a loan, or sell his hopuse if the damn thing works, and start an energy company. hell, let’s start a website and raise funds for his machine.

thats a good point about the fact that its not off the ground yet. but he writes at length about the problems of finding funding, and most physicists who have spent years developing something dont exactly have a lot of accumulated capital to start competing with exxon.

i just want to know specifically why we cant put a windmill onto the zpf. its not magic, its just a windmill/dam/sail that grabs onto a new kind of natural energy and harnesses it. why cant it?

What might happen if we used up all the energy in the zpf? As i find it hard to believe that it would be an infinate source of energy. The windmills slow down the wind when they hit it after all.

The issue is in collecting enough ‘free energy’ and concentrating that energy enough to do useful work. Consider the theoretical work done on using a sail to gather solar radiation to drive spacecraft. The sail would have to be miles in diameter to collect enough solar wind to push a craft the size of a small car. The energy described might be ‘free’, but the supporting technology needed to harness enough to be useful could be costly.

All the conspiracy theories aside, if the guy has something, build a half dozen and get them into the hands of 3 or 4 competing media outlets. Greed guarantees that the controllers won’t be able to contain the ‘good news’ from getting out.

JT

Right now, I’d be willing to settle for free donuts. :stuck_out_tongue:

I’m not a scientist, but here’s a paper on Tom Bearden, it seems like a lot of the scientific minded folks are trying to take his device apart just from the link FM posted, but this guy’s got history.

phact.org/e/z/beardenreview.htm.old

The stuff about the Russians blowing up our space-shuttles with EMP waves is especially grand, I thought.

thank you uccisore. some people would just beg a bunch of questions and expect everyone to believe him as much as bearden expects me to believe him. as if!

Future Man,

Do you know what you are talking about?? It appears not. The ZPF or ZPE according to the Quantum Electro-dynamic model is a result of virtual particle and anti-particle pairs forming, existing for an extremely small amount of time, and then annihilating each other. It has nothing directly to do with photons.

Seeing as it is night here, the photons I am recieving are coming from the monitor in front of me, the lights above me, and maybe a very small amount of reflected light coming from the moon and the stars. Yes, photons have energy, but a very small amount of energy per photon. Where do you come up with this exploding pressure shite? The reason I don’t ‘explode’ is because there simply isn’t enough photons hitting me to do such a thing. Do you really think a few 60W globes has enough energy to make me explode?

Did you read the link that Uccisore posted? It basically details how much of a crackpot Bearden is. Until you understand basic physics and the conservation of energy, there is no point in discussing this MEG ‘idea’.

Yes, there is environmental energy that can be harnessed (solar, tidal, wind etc). However, because we live in a world with frictional forces (both mechanical and electrical) and conservation of energy, the output of devices that harness such energy will always be less than the energy input into such devices. I agree, new energy sources need to be found. However wasting time and money on such obviously ridiculous ideas (to anyone with even a modest physics background) would be folly.

Future Man

You’re very welcome, my good deed for the day, it was.