If I explain twice how there’s no freewill, shame on you.
If I explain thrice how there’s no freewill, shame on me.
Epimethius is a staunch supporter of institutionalized philosophy.
It’s part of his shift from Nietzsche, via Stirner, to Marx.
The other half-breed, and his van clan, went form worshiping Nietzsche to worshiping Strauss, or Kabbalah…..Pezer returned to Christianity….. his rightful place in the herd.
Schopenhauer defined will, for him, and he will not change his commitments - Nietzsche adopted it, and so does Epimethius.
God’s will, minus the god part - intentionality without motive. He’s progressed from Abrahamism to Marxism.
Will, as the groundless grounding, existing in a Platonic realm…..makes all willful actions illusions, shadows of its absolute perfection. Our will is but a means through which this metaphysical will expresses itself in real time…..like the god of Scripture.
What mortal man can meet such metaphysical criteria?
According to these slaves Will to Power, is nothing more than an adjustment of god working through men….to impose his will.
Whose will to power? Not man’s, nor any living thing’s….but the Platonic Will’s power, via the mediation of submissive “anarchists” like Epimethius.
He believes he’s over the god of the Bible, but he’s not really. He’s only over the anthropomorphism….the authoritarianism…the guilt tipping and shaming. He has no problem with the totalitarianism…..why?
Because how would he absolve himself of all responsibility? How would he maintain his victim identity? He can live without the god of Abraham, but not without the scapegoat.
What do Christians say when bad things happen to them? “It’s god’s will.”
What do modern degenerates pretending to be atheists say? “It’s all determined”…fatalism.
Not even Schopenhauer or Nietzsche could deal with the loss of a scapegoat.
A pedophile can say….’I could not have chosen to do anything but what was determined for me to do…which is rape this five-year old.’
Not his fault……fate.
If we properly defined ‘will,’ as a living being’s focus on an objective, and define ‘free’ as a qualifier of will, determined by its strengths, then we can measure freedom by an individuals accessible options.
But degenerates will not do this. They choose not to define certain concepts starting with actions - physics - the observable falsifiable act…but will always project their definitions into the metaphysical, where the god of Abraham ‘exists’, next to Plato’s other ideals.
Just think of how it would impact their self-esteem, their overestimation of themselves, if they were to admit that they were not entirely the victims of cosmic forces, of otherness, but that they contributed in the determination of their fate, with their bad judgements and poor choices.
Guy steals a loaf of bread and is arrested. He doesn’t complain and takes full responsibility for the theft. He chose to steal the bread.
He says, “i chose to steal the bread, but i don’t take responsibility for there being no jobs, for having no money, or for being hungry. Therefore, i complain, i call myself a ‘victim’ of these circumstances. I say that while i did choose to steal the bread with my own freewill, there should not be such circumstances as to lead someone to choose to steal a loaf of bread.”
Now, what do you do with this guy? You can’t quite figure out how to pin him down. He says he has free will, has no problem pleading guilty, but then blames circumstances for making him have to consider choice x (stealing bread).
You want so bad to attack him with the 4chan liberal nihiloabrahamic pussy-ass fear of knowthyself Ramstein responsibility and wanting god and the government to take care of his slave-ass routine, but he’s got you scratching your head instead because you agree; a fella ought not have to steal bread.
Alright, now to the question. Does it really even matter what this guy ‘believes’ in his head about freewill and determinism when the end result is the same? There he sits in court pleading guilty but complaining nevertheless.
Where is this metaphysical space where there are real distinct things called determinism and freewill? In our heads? Shirley, it must be because bro would have stolen the bread either way. Whether or not the guy is one or the other doesn’t seem to even matter here, does it?
Freewill is only and has only ever been a spook that people employ to affect praise or blame on someone. That’s to say, if he’s complaining and we don’t like him, we hit em with the freewill bit (you got yourself into this mess!). If he’s complaining and we do like him, we hit with the determinism (you had to do it, bro!).
Necessity…..that’s your argument.
Dude…freedom is not salvation from causality nor from need.
Your Platonic idealization of freedom is your choice.
Salvation is how they defined it in the bible - freedom from pain and suffering, from sin, from causality, from mortality…from reality, from the physical, from physis, nature.
And this is how you CHOOSE to define freedom so as to comfort your ego…and maintain your overestimation of yourself.
If you were consistent, which you are not, then you could define life in such a way - immortality - and then declare life an illusion because it does not reach the standards of your metaphysical definitions.
Satyr is correct though. YOU are arguing from a ‘Negative’ view of Free-Will, what Satyr calls “Pure Nihilism” as opposed to “Positive Nihilism”. If you take an Absolutist approach to Free-Will in either direction, “free from all earthly desires” (Negative) or “free to do anything including magical powers” (Positive), then you are destroying your own philosophical position. Free-Will advocates really don’t argue the Negative, that humans are “free from all earthly desires”. Rather we are ‘Free’ in spite of, not because of those desires.
Really “Death” is the only “Freedom” in your Negative position. Death is what “Frees” humanity from Desire / Will. That’s Nihilistic.
Positive Nihilism is then the delusion that people have “Free-Will to choose” …to Levitate, to be Immortal, to travel the Universe in psychic infinite fragment realms (think Ecmandu and Iambiggy here). That is the other end of absurdity.
Meanwhile, you, and most others, pragmatically believe and ACT UPON your daily choices. You can choose to eat at the local cafe, Subway, Burger King, or whatever goyslop is served in Florida.
Another note: the ancient Stoics, Ascetics, Monks, Buddhists, and Spartans believed that reducing all Earthly desires was a critical path toward ‘Freedom’ and Free-Will. This includes practicing Fasting, practicing the Sabbath, meditations, exercise, training, etc. So there are ways to increase Freedom / Free-Will both Negatively (restricting needs) and Positively (expanding Choice).
A slavish mind measures his freedom as an escape - salvation. Like in the Abrahamic dogmas, hoping for an escape from reality, from pain and suffering, from mortality, from causality, from time…
Freedom from….
Will from….
A master measures freedom, in relation to his strength and power, to move towards an objective.
His accessible options are a measure of his freedom.
Freedom to….
Will to….
The slave concludes that he can never be absolutely free from EVERYTHING….so he is unfree.
He finds solace that EVERYONE is equally unfree….and in need of salvation, bound by the same master…..which is either represented by an authoritarian totalitarian god, or is secularized into a totalitarian cosmos governed by absolute laws.
The slave prefers the latter, because it makes freedom equally and absolutely impossible, for all.
Parity. His ego is comforted.
Nobody can ever do anything “wrong” because nobody has a choice. His ego can continue to highly regard itself, even if it a matter of chance….fate. He need not explain how a clever man,a s himself, made so many bad choices.
He has an absolute excuse…..a scapegoat. He could not have done anything other than what he did.
He need not do anything…remain passive, because freedom is impossible, in the Platonic way he’s defined freedom.
But he does not apply this method to any other cocnept, because if he did his motives would be exposed.
An idealization of life, for example…..giving it the Platonic treatment, would make life, as it is experienced, as it exists, an illusion…..a shadow….a farce…
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You are still there with your psychotic delusions then Silenus.
Still misrepresenting reality.
You need to exist to claim things….illusions don’t exist and certainly don’t claim things…you fool.
Lifelesss binary processing biological machine bodies EXIST!!! and claim things.
You don’t posses spiritual life because your spirit (soul) is dead.
Atheistic Santa Science is FALSE!!!
Force ABSOLUTES exist in the cosmos.
I’ve noticed that you cannot convince Pure Nihilists on a ‘positive’ (freedom to) and you can’t convince Positive Nihilists on a ‘negative’ (freedom from). Each are stuck in their own mindset / worldview / core value. Perhaps this is why, no amount of ‘Absolute Freedom’ or demonstration of ‘Free-Will’ would convince a “stiff neck” like @promethean75 .
Since I’m reading the Old Testament, it reminds me of the Abrahamic God constantly working and doing Miracles, yet the Tribe keep doubting, denying, bitching, complaining, and so God keeps punishing them and working more Miracles to demonstrate “See! See! O Ye of little Faith, Obey me!!!” I’ve argued the same way against Prom before, maybe twice or three times now. If God-Himself reached his Hand down from the skies, picked up a mountain, moved it, then Prom would still be in denial about his own Free-Will.
He would simply move the Goal-posts, like many dishonest intellectuals. Because if anybody sets up one Definitive goal-post, it can be defeated. Thus there can be no intellectual rigor around a clear, rational, reasonable Axiom.
There is no singular Act that can convince him. In this way, his Stubbornness, refusal to believe, refusal to accept any demonstration of Free-Will, is the more powerful force than an Act of God. It is an absolute defiance (Against God, Against Nature, Against Destiny, Etc). The inversion happens though, because Prom is claiming that his belief is aligned with ‘Destiny/Fate’ when it’s actually not.
Because that presumes Omniscience. I don’t think Prom really understands this yet…
They need absolution, to feel victims of otherness.
They need a scapegoat, to maintain their high estimation of themselves.
Strange that they reduce themselves to slaves, no different than a speck of dust, but still feel superior to others,……I guess they feel privileged, CHOSEN, to be among those who have been determined to know that they are impotent…powerless.
Is it not also ironic that many of them ascribed to Nietzsche’s Will To Power?
Power through association. Who will’s power? Not them. It’s not their power, they are powerless. Not their will, they are will-less.
God’s will using the faithful to express itself, to impose itself.
They admit that they are powerless slaves of a Will, with no motives.
God is transmuted into absolute cosmic order.
God’s commandments become natural laws…..nobody can challenge those….so no primordial sin, no shame, no guilt….all that exists is as it was determined - willed.
No judgement errors, no bad choices….no regrets.
God’s will minus god.
They use the Platonic method only for certain concepts, like freedom, or will, or race….or whatever they want to ‘define out of existence.’
They do not use the same method to define ‘life’ for example.
They could but they don’t because then the ywill be exposed.
They could define life, like they did ‘freedom’ - as a Platonic ideal - defined as immortal…..for example.
Then all perceived life would be an ‘illusion’……A shadow of the ideal……
So, ‘choice’ willing, is an illusion because of how they CHOSE to define ‘will’ and ‘free’.
Nothing can meet their Platonic criteria of freedom…..freedom from causality, from need/desire, from pain/suffering, from death. No living being, not even god, can meet their criteria.
All of it is to comfort themselves that they did nothing wrong, nothing which they could have done differently…Their fate was out of their hands.
Then they blame others, revealing their true motives.
If they had no choice, then why do others have a choice?
Because ti’s not about truth, it’s about a comforting lie - self-deception.
It’s about protecting their ego from the truth.
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The (((Tribe))) feels simultaneously above and below even God’s Law. Not even God can judge them. This is notably Prom’s position:
It’s why they do their silly little ‘legal tricks’ like uncovering a lamp on the Sabbath, so as not to “do work” on their Holy Day.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/YV5GwPksc0U
Accountable to None, even their God.
It makes sense, now, why Pride (Hubris) was made their greatest Sin by the Christian revolutionaries.
The (((tribe))) created a method of scapegoating. They used god - representing their collective - as a scapegoat that uses them as its scapegoat…..so they remain eternally innocent.
why do they take Palestine from the Semitic Palestinians, when most of them are European?
Because god….
why do they slaughter them?
Because…god.
They are innocent. They have no free-will, no choice…they are god’s chosen…..god acts through them….you see?
Those rejecting free-will are usually atheists that have not found the integrity to accept what the ‘death of god’ means for them, personally. They still need a scapegoat.
They need to remain innocent victims that only do the things they do, and think, because some faceless force, some master, some power is in control.
You have neither disproven nor proven freewill, nobody has. Nobody has proven what quantum physics is.
More nonsense. Liberals and wokes complain about slavery everyday at schools.
Freedom is the ability to exercise ones will. I said will, not “freewill”. Freedom is therefore exercise. For example, when I ride my ebike, at 28 mph, I am exercising my freedom to do so, because in the UK I would not be allowed to do so, because in the UK they don’t value freedom.
The way this works is simplex, yet slightly difficult to explain. I believe there is a divine component involved, but I mean the word divine as a figure of speech, not as a literally divine free-will.
You’re always a slave to something. Either a slave to your own nature or someone else’s nature or nobody’s nature (bureaucracy.) Capitalism, religion, bureaucracy, is slavery to pieces of paper, written down pieces of paper.
For example I have a desire to hunt. This is from my Native American genes. I have a mix of Native American, white and negro genes, such as the white love of the gun, and the negro love of the gun. This is my biology. But it is not as simple as mere biology. There is a divine component involved, I mean as a figure of speech. For example there is boredom. There is sitting watching paint dry. I would rather just go out and shoot something than watch paint dry. Where is the freewill in that? It is because my biology made me feel bored and thus I seek Divine Transcendence to escape my biology. Then the lack of freewill would be if draconian tyrants ban all the guns. Then I am no longer free to follow my will. There I am in a cubicle, cooped-up playing videogames. Then I could seek Divine Transcendence from the cubicle, seeking out high quality VR games in 3 dimensions. If there are no high quality VR games then my freedom is restricted, unable to play the high quality VR games. For example if I am sexually rejected by a woman IRL, then I no longer have freedom to follow my will, and am denied Divine Transcendence and am force to feel boredom and frustration. Then if I see VR sex there is a lack of freedom since VR sex lacks true haptics and is unconvincing. And I hesitate to say that we are all mere “biological robots” since it ignores the Divine component, which is that Beings tend to feel boredom. Beings tend to feel boredom and thus long for Divine Transcendence. Therefore many beings seek Drugs in order to lessen the feeling of boredom. The main “biological robot” component is that after millions of years, evolution made us feel misery and boredom, the ones that did not feel misery and boredom did not survive, in that way we are all biological robots in that sort of way.
“You have neither disproven nor proven freewill, nobody has”
Right, I’m with Hume, too. Freewill is an unfalsifiable concept like determinism. But unlike determinism (causality… we see it every day happening), freewill is something difficult to even imagine in any way in a material system… uhh… which is to say it’s impossible to describe a universe in which it could be true… not only is it untrue…
Trump is Zionist corporate fascist, but to be fair democrats and republicans both alike are Zionist corporate fascists inside the United States where money is God or where wealth is synonymous with righteousness.
Surely even as a conservative you must acknowledge wealth, capitalism, greed, and economic inequality is becoming a huge problem here domestically.
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I agree with you both that different races and ethnicities are different subspecies of humanity. What I disagree with you both on is the differences of intelligence amongst different ethnic races or why intelligence even matters at all in terms of development.
Moreover, I think you both don’t acknowledge how environment or history shapes different races and ethnicities more than anything else.
You both are so warped in the thinking of superiority or inferiority of the other where I just think it is all rather pointless.
Yes, race and ethnicity is inherent part of culture or tribal nation state, I think we can all agree on that in terms of cultural identity.
I just think that despite all of that we can find ways of respecting each other even amongst those differences.
It amazes me how conservatives who are both Christian and capitalist come to worship, idolize, or revere the same very people that would turn them into slaves.
Christianity, capitalism, and this modern fascist concept of empire legitimizes human slavery in practice. What amazes me is how the typical modern political conservative or libertarian cannot see that.
Free will implies freedom, we would need a comprehensive definition of the concept and word freedom. What is freedom?